[Suggestions] Collection of Gameplay Suggestions.

[Hamel]

This is a collection of suggestions that I think would be nice if implemented, nothing more. Since the thread will already be long enough without me droning on in the beginning of it, I'll just get right to the suggestions.


[Archery]:

Separate arrow nocking from the aiming and firing process. This would give bows a better chance at fighting crossbows when both opponents are behind cover. And it would make organizing arrow volleys easier. It should be impossible to sprint while you have an arrow nocked.

"Archers, Hear me!" "Ready!" This command would tell them to nock a arrow. "Take aim!" This one would, obviously, tell them to pull their bows back and aim at their nearest enemies.  "Fire!" This one goes without saying. It would probably be best to tell them to fire shortly after telling them to aim, for obvious reasons.

Lower the accuracy penalty that comes with having less Powerdraw than the best possible for that bow.

Decrease the peak accuracy of all bows, slightly.

Increase the time the bow reticule stays at peak accuracy.

Increase the chance of crossbows breaking through shields by a small amount. At the moment they very rarely do so for only Siege Crossbows. A Heavy Crossbow should be able to shoot through a lowest tier infantry shield consistently. Heck, a plain old Crossbow should be able to shoot through a lowest tier infantry shield most of the time.

Lower or remove the inaccuracy in missile flight that comes even with a perfect reticule.


[Melee Weapons]:

**Increase minimum time between swings, depending on the weight (largest effect) and length (slight effect) of the weapon.** (Particularly important here.)

Force "Long Axes" into polearm mode. Whether they should use two-handed or polearm proficiency escapes me.


[Crouching]:

Add a "Crouch" button.

Effects of Crouching: You are noticeably slower at walking. Your hit-boxes are a good deal closer together vertically, thus, somewhat harder to hit. Some weapons might be unusable while crouching, larger bows (warbow, longbow) and probably two-handed weapons in general.


[Shields]:

Remove the invisible forcefield protecting shield users from missiles.

Crouching while holding up a shield should result in you bracing yourself against the shield, instead of crouching normally. (Why, yes, I did rip that name off of one of Tibertus' suggestions.)

Effects of Bracing: You would get the invisible forcefield effect we have now, covering pretty much the entire front part of your body. Most of you would be behind the shield, anyway. You walk significantly slower, just like crouching normally. You are unable to attack with any weapon while bracing, as you are constantly holding your shield up.

You could also just skip crouching altogether, and add a Brace button instead.

The nice thing about Bracing is that it would allow for the removal of the invisible shield forcefield, while still giving infantry the ability to assault fortified archer holds, such as castles or ruins. The slowed walking speed would likely unbalance castle maps in favor of the defenders, I would recommend increasing the round timer by several minutes.

Parrying with a shield should be directional, while blocking should not. (It may seem like I stole the idea from AoC, who suggested the idea in the fairly recent past. If it is any consultation, I also thought of the idea just before reading his post. )


[Parrying]:

The window for parrying should be a just little bit larger.

Parrying an overhead swing from a block/shield crushing weapon should deflect the blow, and parrying a stunning weapon should decrease the stun (to you) significantly. (One, or both of these may already be so, I dunno.)

Parrying a kick (downward parry) should result in the kicker being knocked over and, if the kick was parried with a weapon, take damage as if they were struck by a normal swing from that weapon to their feet.


[Secondary Attacks] (I don't consider this section particularly important, nor do I have much hope of most, or any of it being implemented) :

Increase time between kicks slightly.

Add a "Secondary Attack" button. Secondary attacks: Shove for people without a shield, Shield Bash for people with shields. The name 'Shove' is somewhat misleading, but it's all I could think of off the bat. Shoving should really be more of ramming into them, shoulder first, or something like that.

All secondary attacks should stun through shields, but the damage should go to the shield, not the user. Both should have a range shorter than kick.

(Shove): Very slight amount of damage. Minor chance of knock down. Stuns enemy for duration something like kick. The animation should be longer than kick, leaving the basher vulnerable to attack. Should have a slightly higher cool down time than kick.

(Shield Bash): The damage should be very small as well, possibly related to your shield skill? Stuns enemy for a duration less than kick. The animation speed could be determined by the shield speed and slightly by the shield skill of the user (achingly slow with a heavy board shield and no shield skill), the average speed should probably be slightly faster than Shove, though. Could still counts as blocking while bashing (might present issues)? The cool down time should be similar to kick.

The cool down time should be shared between secondary attacks. So you don't have people going Shield Bash, Kick, Shield Bash, Kick.


Also see Collection of Weapon Suggestions.

No tl;dr, please. 

 

[CalenLoki]

As and archer, I'll comment on your archery suggestion mainly



Separate nocking and drawing = big +, as always



Instead of accuracy drop for smaller bows, I would rather see no penalty for having heavy bow (as long as you have enough PD). It's quite silly that to use average bow (3 PD requirement) without accuracy penalty you need 7PD (21 STR), while to use biggest weapon or armour not more than 12 STR...
Also, as every real archer now, only noticeable advantage (IRL) of light bow (if you are strong enough to comfortably use stronger bow) is holding time (which also affect horse archery or shooting while walking), NOT accuracy nor shooting speed. Bows maximum requirement should be lowered.

So my proposition for new bows system:
1. Bow should require STR, not PD. Point in PD should count as +3STR while using bow (so tu use shortbow (8  STR MIN REQ, 16 STR MAX REQ), you have to have 5STR+1PD or 8STR to use it at all, and 9STR+3PD or 10STR+2PD or 13STR+1PD or 16STR to use it without penalty)
2. Bow should be usable (but with accuracy and speed penalty) if archer reach minimal requirements
3. Shooting without accuracy penalty is possible after acquiring STR MAX REQ = DOUBLE STR MIN REQ or STR MIN REQ +10 (whichever is lower)
4. Bow damage should be equal to STR MAX REQ +/- for bow quality and shape +for reflex, +for size
5. Bow shooting speed should depend mainly on archery proficiency + bow size + penalty for no acquiring MAX STR REQ + penalty for shooting from horseback (lowered by horse-archery skill). Nocking speed should depend only on archery proficiency (and maybe AGI)
6. Statistics of current bows in my system:
-name MIN STR REQ/MAX STR REQ (Damage) Speed
-hunting bow 6/12 (12) 100
-short bow 8/16 (16) 99
-nomad bow 10/20 (21) 98
-khergit bow 12/22 (23) 97
-strong bow 14/24 (25) 96
-long bow 14/24 (25) 94
-warbow 16/26 (2 93

隐藏: current system to compare

-name MIN STR REQ/MAX STR REQ (Damage) Speed
-hunting bow 0/0 (15) 100
-short bow 3/15 (1 97
-nomad bow 6/18 (20) 94
-khergit bow 9/21 (21) 90
-strong bow 9/21 (23) 88
-long bow 9/21 (22) 79
-warbow 12/24 (25) 84

Don't agree with quick fall from full accuracy to poor accuracy - current smooth acc decreasing is good. Ans as long as we have expanding hrosshair we don't need any other accuracy indicator.



Why disallow shooting with longbow while crouching? It isn't realistic nor fun nor balanced... (ofc I'm talking about proper archery crouching, not sitting on like in many fps...)



Crouching shouldn't also create forcefield - if you have shield big enough (any except horseman shields and cheapest round shield) you're nearly fully covered with model.

 

[Hamel]

Instead of accuracy drop for smaller bows, I would rather see no penalty for having heavy bow (as long as you have enough PD).

I was originally going to post something like that, along with a slight decrease in maximum accuracy for all bows. But I figured many people would feel that the suggestion was over-complicating it, and that the same result could be achieved with a decrease in the maximum accuracy of lower tier bows.

The reason I suggested that the the accuracy of the perfect accuracy bows be decreased, is because there isn't really a limit to the competence of archers. If an archer is good enough, they could foot-shot people from across the map almost without fail. Thus, there needs to be some degree of randomization in their shots, to make sure they don't hit all the time. Now, this randomization is already present in the way of crazy random arrows (where the arrows will fly inaccurately, despite the reticule accuracy being perfect) and buggy hit boxes, both things I forgot to mention a suggested removal of. 

I'll edit it.

Don't agree with quick fall from full accuracy to poor accuracy - current smooth acc decreasing is good. Ans as long as we have expanding hrosshair we don't need any other accuracy indicator.

The reasoning behind the bar system is that it doesn't make much sense to me that your hands would start shaking, and your accuracy would begin to decline, immediately after you start aiming your bow.

Now that I think of it, however, a superior solution would be to instead increase the time the reticule remains perfect, so to speak.

I'll edit that too. 

Why disallow shooting with longbow while crouching? It isn't realistic nor fun nor balanced... (ofc I'm talking about proper archery crouching, not sitting on like in many fps...)

Not knowing a whole lot about archery myself, I questioned whether or not it would be realistic to use such a large bow in a crouched position. If it was done right, I suppose it could be done. If someone convinces me it is realistic, I will correct my suggestion in reflection of it.

Crouching shouldn't also create forcefield - if you have shield big enough (any except horseman shields and cheapest round shield) you're nearly fully covered with model.

The force-field seems necessary to me. I don't think any shield other than the board shield is capable of physically covering a entire player, even if they were scrunched up as much as humanly possible. Protecting the entire player is quite important when you crossing a large distance under constant arrow fire, especially if they're good shots.

 

[CalenLoki]

Instead of accuracy drop for smaller bows, I would rather see no penalty for having heavy bow (as long as you have enough PD).

I was originally going to post something like that, along with a slight decrease in maximum accuracy for all bows. But I figured many people would feel that the suggestion was over-complicating it, and that the same result could be achieved with a decrease in the maximum accuracy of lower tier bows.

The reason I suggested that the the accuracy of the perfect accuracy bows be decreased, is because there isn't really a limit to the competence of archers. If an archer is good enough, they could foot-shot people from across the map almost without fail. Thus, there needs to be some degree of randomization in their shots, to make sure they don't hit all the time. Now, this randomization is already present in the way of crazy random arrows (where the arrows will fly inaccurately, despite the reticule accuracy being perfect) and buggy hit boxes, both things I forgot to mention a suggested removal of. 

I'll edit it.

Your idea would work in warband, with low archery proficiency level. But at much higher (300+) level reticule should be perfectly small for all bows.
So to archive same result (not perfect, but same accuracy for all bows) easiest way (decreasing weak bows accuracy) would create problems in the future. Because of that I think hardest way (lowering real(=minimum+4) PD requirement or changing whole bow requirement system) would work better.

Don't agree with quick fall from full accuracy to poor accuracy - current smooth acc decreasing is good. Ans as long as we have expanding hrosshair we don't need any other accuracy indicator.

The reasoning behind the bar system is that it doesn't make much sense to me that your hands would start shaking, and your accuracy would begin to decline, immediately after you start aiming your bow.

Now that I think of it, however, a superior solution would be to instead increase the time the reticule remains perfect, so to speak.

That's probably best solution. But accuracy shouldn't remain perfect too much longer - bows should be weapon that need perfect timing (in opposite to crossbow - peasant weapon)

I'll edit that too. 

Why disallow shooting with longbow while crouching? It isn't realistic nor fun nor balanced... (ofc I'm talking about proper archery crouching, not sitting on like in many fps...)

Not knowing a whole lot about archery myself, I questioned whether or not it would be realistic to use such a large bow in a crouched position. If it was done right, I suppose it could be done. If someone convinces me it is realistic, I will correct my suggestion in reflection of it.

I'll try to find some video, pictures or other proof. I may also take a photo myself, but: a. it's night b. it's -20'C outside c. my camera is broken d. it's hard to draw bow and use camera at the same time e. I don't like digging in snow to find my arrows...

Crouching shouldn't also create forcefield - if you have shield big enough (any except horseman shields and cheapest round shield) you're nearly fully covered with model.

The force-field seems necessary to me. I don't think any shield other than the board shield is capable of physically covering a entire player, even if they were scrunched up as much as humanly possible. Protecting the entire player is quite important when you crossing a large distance under constant arrow fire, especially if they're good shots.

There always should be a chance to hit - and with all but smallest shields that chance would be really small (something close to current shooting at forcefield - only feet are exposed, unless they are under ground level. I would rather see bigger shields than forcefield - it's as frustrating (or even more) as invisible 35cm of morningstar...

 

[PsykoOps]

This is a collection of suggestions that I think would be nice if implemented, nothing more. Since the thread will already be long enough without me droning on in the beginning of it, I'll just get right to the suggestions.


[Archery]:

Separate arrow nocking from the aiming and firing process. This would give bows a better chance at fighting crossbows when both opponents are behind cover. And it would make organizing arrow volleys easier. It should be impossible to sprint while you have an arrow nocked.

Why no sprinting? IRL you could do circus acrobatics with a bow with arrow nocked.

 

[Hamel]

Your idea would work in warband, with low archery proficiency level. But at much higher (300+) level reticule should be perfectly small for all bows.
So to archive same result (not perfect, but same accuracy for all bows) easiest way (decreasing weak bows accuracy) would create problems in the future. Because of that I think hardest way (lowering real(=minimum+4) PD requirement or changing whole bow requirement system) would work better.

Agreed, the complicated way is the best way. At least from the perspective of those who do not do the coding. 

There always should be a chance to hit - and with all but smallest shields that chance would be really small (something close to current shooting at forcefield - only feet are exposed, unless they are under ground level. I would rather see bigger shields than forcefield - it's as frustrating (or even more) as invisible 35cm of morningstar...

Bigger shields would certainly be nice.

Why no sprinting? IRL you could do circus acrobatics with a bow with arrow nocked.

What, with their feet, you mean? 

 

[PsykoOps]

Yeah as long as you hold the bow in your hand you can have your right hand free and run around like crazy jumping and whatnot