Suggestions about new troops and NPCs

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Dodgerer

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Some fun monsters for a dungeon of sorts
Flying tools- basically they would be invisible humans with a very small area where you can hit them, and you could only hit them melee that would fight with the sword ora ny other tool they have(bardiche, spear, mace) and you would only see the weapon and could only hit them in the weapon, low defense but couldn't be damaged via ranged attacks.
Minotaur - using a mesh to make a minotaur head for the giants with a giant axe.
Teleporting rogue - this is a fun little suggestion of having a man mounted on an invisible fully downscaled horse that would be increadibly fast and spin very quickly and would just harass you wherever you go
Ghosts -  similar to shades, they would be white instead of black and would steal life force with their attacks(their legs would be invisible and that would make them fun).
Fairies - gnome skeletons placed again on some sort of invisible horse, no leg animations, legs would be part of the body that would kind of shrink a bit more and they would look like they are flying while casting some spells at you.
Abominations - again giants with a lot of oozing blood and kind of fat, woul have weapons in both hands(that look like two handed weapons)
Lycantropes - a commodity amongst d&d tho we already have the windrunners
Cursed people - human flesh would have dark, red or green smudges, often missing a limb using a onehand weapon or if missing right limb using magic
Angels - an obvious thing mostly for undeadhunters, maybe they could have like a righteous resurection where they would resurrect a number of your fallen men in battle so instead of being dead they could fight the next battle, again use of an invisible horse now upscaled.

Edit: (something like "strike wizzards" that would use horses and would use the acid arrow, slow charm person and some magic missiles together with like beremberts explosive flasks

Priest mage - a mage of the blazing hand that uses white bolt,  missile storm along with haste and fire arrow

Orc patrolmaster - an orc that always has a helmet to talk to when you encounter an orc patrol)

OK, I've talked a lot about invisible horses and a lot of people(partly including me) want to know if it's possible to do, but if it is there is a large amount of cool things that can be done to make it seem like someone is flying, or just much faster without too big problems.

Some npcs- a four way in dude that you could store some items at but you would pay a bit from your account like 50 each week while he's holding them

If you would make a new island, north of kingdom of nords, with like dungeons and rampaging parties - like a cursed land,
npcs to teleport you to a neutral city, city you own
npcs that let you buy the islands just west of swadia - each with a city + 2 villages of random factions for some big cash and ways of getting there
Some hired trainers - you could give them money and a few troops and those troops would get exp at a trainer 5 rate every day no matter their level, but they wouldn't get upgraded automatically
A Mercenary Marketman(or something) that would sell you mercenaries - different ones at every tavern and they would have limited supplies the more limited the greater the demand(so, for instance in mage tower you could get mercenary mages or bodyguards)
a magical crafter- he would be able to make some armour and weapons from mythril, iron, velvet, and the gems to give them some magical properties
 

SeriousKnight01

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I know that there are lots of people out there who keep d&d at arms length with this mod... But I caught myself wondering which Deity the native factions would follow, since we already have mentions for Moradin, Corellon, Lolth, and Pelor...

What came with that wondering is how this would affect the respective factions units and clerics.... So I mused on the matter for a while and here is what I came up with....

Swadia - Torm (lawful good) - God of honor and justice - I liked this for them based on their niche as being a faction of knights, the unique unit for them could be an upgraded version of their cleric called a Golden Lion Paladin a undead killing paladin mounted on a golden stallion. The order of the Golden Lion is one of Helm's paladin orders.

Rohdok - Ilmater (lawful good) - God of endurance and suffering - This seemed to fit well with the rohdok's air of enduring attack and invasion from swadia and the sarranids, Their unique upgrade for clerics could be pain bearers of ilmater, who are specialized in healing large amounts at cost to their own health. 

Kerigits - Selune (Chaotic/neutral good) - Goddess of wanderers, the mood, and non evil werewolves - Since the keregits already have werewolves and they are historically nomadic and tribal this just seemed to fit. Their clerics could upgrade to silver stars that could have a buffed version of haste and slow that they can call on in battle.

Sarranids - Oghma (neutral) - God of lore, knowledge, and mystery - I was thinking particularly of the Djann when I grabbed this one. Sarranid imam could upgrade to clerics of Oghma that can buff the mana pools of their armies. This may make the sarranid djann even more scary but i think with all the other additions of this list it could help them out, especially against Ridas and delthersam.

Vaegir - Bahamut (lawful good) - I know the lawful good group is getting alot of love here, but this one seemed to fit the Vaegirs well... Bahamut is the dragon god of frost, justice, temperance, and mercy. The Vaegir clerics could upgrade to his paladins and be a mix of mage and cleric, using white bolt and some kind of frost spell alongside cleric abilities and use lesser versions of the frost sword.

Nords - Tempus (chaotic) - This has to be my favorite match. tempus is the god of war, honor, and battle. Nord shamen could upgrade to war-priests of tempus, with a buffed version of the bless spell that gives them even higher damage, but makes them take more damage. The clerics themselves could also be in heavy armor and be skilled in combat like huscarls.

Thats my list for now... just a few thoughts i decided to share, I would like to see what d&d gods others think would go well with each faction. I also would like to know how you would make their respective clerics unique.

Also, What could we do with this as far as unique clerics?
Elves - Corellon
Dwarves - Moradin
Orcs - Gruumush
Mages - Boccob?
Undead - Nerull?
Drow - Lolth
Blazing Hand - Pelor?

As a final note: THE FAITH SYSTEM IN THIS GAME IS AWESOME!!! I have enjoyed countless hours playing as a cleric and paladin leading a crusading army of united vaegir, swadian, and rohdok holy men. I want to express my appreciation for what has been done already. In no way is this post supposed to show contempt for the current system, Only to muse on the possibilities for unique additions to the native faction trees. currently there are no NPC paladins, this may lead to that.
 
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I seem to remember that in Warrider (the alpha version of M&B), the Vaegir were supposed to be kinda evil (hence why they leave skeletons in their dining halls), and would be in league with necromancers.

Which would make them somewhere along the lines of lawful, neutral or chaotic evil. :fruity:
 

AielloA

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I'm going to be perfectly honest here: in my opinion, the Drow tree should probably be reworked. In D&D, male Drow are very much second-class citizens, and it's females who have all the power, be it political, clerical or magical. That having been said, men are very useful to the Priesthood of Lolth, because it's always convenient to be able to turn someone who is basically your slave into a Drider slave (i.e. heavy cavalry) instead. Or sacrifice them to summon a Yochlol (i.e. heavy infantry).

In my mind, therefore, it would make more sense for the "Drow woman" tree to have Mages (just shunt the entire "initiate" line over to females instead of males) and Priestesses, maybe change Lolth's Chosen to flankers, and have the "Drow male" tree later on get upgraded to demonic servants of Lolth (by sacrificing Veteran Fighters to summon Yochlols, and turning Blademasters into Driders).

This revamped Drow troop tree would thus have three main tiers: slaves for cannon fodder, females for mystical support, and males as elite melee combatants.
 

mercav

Regular
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AielloA said:
I'm going to be perfectly honest here: in my opinion, the Drow tree should probably be reworked. In D&D, male Drow are very much second-class citizens, and it's females who have all the power, be it political, clerical or magical. That having been said, men are very useful to the Priesthood of Lolth, because it's always convenient to be able to turn someone who is basically your slave into a Drider slave (i.e. heavy cavalry) instead. Or sacrifice them to summon a Yochlol (i.e. heavy infantry).

In my mind, therefore, it would make more sense for the "Drow woman" tree to have Mages (just shunt the entire "initiate" line over to females instead of males) and Priestesses, maybe change Lolth's Chosen to flankers, and have the "Drow male" tree later on get upgraded to demonic servants of Lolth (by sacrificing Veteran Fighters to summon Yochlols, and turning Blademasters into Driders).

This revamped Drow troop tree would thus have three main tiers: slaves for cannon fodder, females for mystical support, and males as elite melee combatants.
In the fluff, female Drow wizards are very, very rare.  E.g. the big Drow metropolis in Faerun has three colleges for the noble houses.  Males can apply only to the warrior or mage schools and females can only apply to the divine school.
 

truth1001

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Apollo Densin said:
Couple of suggestions specifically troop wise. We have the apparent mage hunters with the Vadmeks for the Vagir. I think a possible suggestion on the monk troop tree is to make the male into two paths. Do the main cleric path where you have it now. Then at monk they can upgrade into a mage hunter, high mdef with a crossbow loaded with special bolts that deal more damage if a person has a high magic power skill.
i think that the above idea can be modified to help balance mages. i love magic in this mod but really its kinda unbeatable in my opinion. Giving all the factions special mid or high lvl "mage hunter'" units could level the playing field.
 

truth1001

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I think to balance mages guzpav can basically leave alone, all the high damage/aoe we love about them gets to stay.

But there are units out there that can single you and your overpowerd self out for death with a well placed shot and an "enchanted" arrow. :party:

besides the enchanted arrow part and coding them to specifically target mages with it they probably would not be that hard to implement. you will want to hide those troops so mages wont just immediately target them, you can just make the faction specific ones look just like mid lvl troops of that faction. so no need for specific armors or models. and just modify the weapon loadout to have those special arrows :twisted:
 

chomann2000

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would be cool to see an intelligent/awakened/incarnate construct NPC as a companion or as lords for the mage faction
dwarves could have battle smiths, starting as quartermaster skirmisherish unit right after dwarf in the troop tree that after a lot (the amount needed to go from dark mage to lich) of xp is gained turn into elite armored mages that either only have haste/diamond skin/bless and/or provide a morale bonus as they help maintain equipment.
 

samoja

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I have an alternate suggestion on how dragons could work, again they could come in several color variety (should not be too difficult as long as base model is not being changed) with corresponding names, and they should be strong, i am talking strong enough to wipe the floor with all three immortals combined. Otherwise their mechanic should be similar to immortals, they should spawn occasionally (but rarely) and be non hostile to AI (to prevent AI lords from auto calcing them to death). Otherwise they could have a script that tells them to go around and raid villages in their path causing havoc in their wake. You could take one prisoner and recruit him but it would be hard since they would not only have hundreds of HP (if not thousand) but also a good armor (dragon hide) and both ranged and melee attack (fireball for range, claw and tail attack for melee, maybe jet of flame AOE attack too) in other words dragons should be feared with a good reason, and if you manage to somehow knock one out and recruit it it would pretty much win you most battles on it´s own (a fitting reward for such near impossible feat).
 

truth1001

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i THINK guzpav has pretty much said there will be no dragons at this point because the options for making them work are to time consuming or broken in weird ways.
i.e. the "mount" with an invisible rider.
 

samoja

Squire
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truth1001 said:
i THINK guzpav has pretty much said there will be no dragons at this point because the options for making them work are to time consuming or broken in weird ways.
i.e. the "mount" with an invisible rider.
Ok, here´s a new idea, how about mages can summon elementals (similar to golems but made of natural materials, there could be typical four elements, fire, water, earth and air, and better mages could summon advanced versions, electric, ice, magma and storm) as a "Good" counterpart to necromancy, summoners could in turn get the ability to summon shadows and raise undead from the fallen right on the field. Also you could tell mages and necromancers in your party to use their skills in summoning (though  it would put them under to balance things out) that way you can play a non mage character and still get benefits of mages.
 

Szani

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Could we get new claimants? For all new races. It would be cool in terms of roleplay. For example, imagine leading religious zealot-maniac uncle of someone from royal family to rule Order of Blazing Hand. Or waging war against Delthersam Empire, because current ruler murdered his brother, and now, this raised from dead brother wants his revenge.
 

gsanders

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Szani said:
Could we get new claimants? For all new races. It would be cool in terms of roleplay. For example, imagine leading religious zealot-maniac uncle of someone from royal family to rule Order of Blazing Hand. Or waging war against Delthersam Empire, because current ruler murdered his brother, and now, this raised from dead brother wants his revenge.
  Theyre a lot of work.  I won't have time for it anytime this month.

    Also adding even 1 breaks save game and everyone would have to start over from the beginning, so that is reason #2 to postpone such a change.
 

wolly12

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Silly question? Can you marry one of the female queens? It gives you the option to ask to be associated with there houses? But says as a queen they have a been use for there child? If I start my own faction and become recognized as a king will that allow me to do so ?
 

gsanders

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wolly12 said:
Silly question? Can you marry one of the female queens? It gives you the option to ask to be associated with there houses? But says as a queen they have a been use for there child? If I start my own faction and become recognized as a king will that allow me to do so ?
  You can't marry queens.  You can marry female lords, which exist in several factions (Elves, Mageocracy, Drow, Blazing Hand).  You can marry pretenders -- there is even special dialog for Arwa the Pearled one with stock Diplomacy (which is merged into this mod).  You can never marry queens.  There is a Warband mechanic blocking this.  You declaring yourself "king" doesn't really make you respectable in their eyes.  You're like a puffed up bandit "lord" to them.
 

Dantelh

Veteran
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A Thief unit for the Thieves Guild would make it more interesting. Possibly a quick fighter/flanker who assists with looting/trading.
 

OldGreyBeard

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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Dantelh said:
A Thief unit for the Thieves Guild would make it more interesting. Possibly a quick fighter/flanker who assists with looting/trading.
Look into the female elf troop tree. Elf Ambushers have some hefty stealth skills, both in their skills, and equipment bonuses. It doesn't translate into help with looting or trading ... yet. :fruity:

Also, be sure to enable stealth in the Phantasy 2018 options in the Camp menu. :wink:
 

whydott

Sergeant at Arms
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I Miss the old special unit :cry:
today I declare war against rhodoks, their special unit Swashbuckler just tasted like 'the other high tier troop', not special. I suddenly remember how VMP hardly deal with them hhehe
And Wolfwere. I remember when first download Phantasy, they are really fast, they just running around slaying my troops even there are only 3-5 unit. I usually manage to kill them first before they slaying my troops. I even classified them as cavalry unit in my troops. but now, they just walking beside my paladin and dwarf unit :lol: the title 'windrunner' has gone.

mage still powerful out there, someone has to stop them
 

Wreigir

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I wish there was an expensive fully customizable troop. Like in Perisno, the household guards, which cost a fortune but can wield any weapon or armor you give them.
Though if they might be too OP, you could always jack up their price.
 

gsanders

Grandmaster Knight
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Darnaran said:
I wish there was an expensive fully customizable troop. Like in Perisno, the household guards, which cost a fortune but can wield any weapon or armor you give them.
Though if they might be too OP, you could always jack up their price.
  It won't happen.  If I am so craven as to beg ideas from Perisno I will give up modding.
  I gave 9 months of my life to writing for Perisno and at this point I don't want anything in the way of IP from their content.
  I could care less about household guards to be honest, but since you haven't seen anything original come out of me you still think its the best a mod can be.

  The only similarities I want between Phantasy 2018 and Perisno are the identical code that I wrote for each.  The only "Perisno" things imported here
were Mordechai's prisoner chat (an OSP), and to a limited extent the concept of scale-able wait time Bean introduced, although that has been used in many mods before and since.  Perisno had everything but the kitchen sink; the only stuff that wasn't OSP was stuff I or Bean wrote.  Mainly Perisno 0.8 spent considerable effort flushing all traces of my code and blaming me for their code problems; I felt that if they wouldn't even give me credit for supporting them the least we could each do is forget the other exists.  I don't need them and they don't need me.  In their defense I was a much worse coder during the time they had me.  But they wouldn't lift a finger to help me when I asked.  So I was alone, despite there being "dozens" of devs on paper, I had to do everything coding by myself.  I suppose we each have our own perspectives.  I was also a prima donna.

There were original scenes by Robin, and dozens of re-colorized models mainly lifted from dead mods, like everyone does.  But custom troops interfere with code that normally treats companions and hero lords as having gear that changes and troops as having gear that does not change; that assumption is broken, leading to dozens of side effects if custom troops are used.  It would be safer to add more companions.  Also if flying mounts, etc exist I don't want them xeroxed off unless _I_ am the one mass producing them.  So I refuse to have player editable troops.  They tie my hands for the next generation Phantasy.  A trivial example -- what if there needs to be database support for a special power?  custom troops wouldn't have that database change.  Perisno doesn't have that sort of complexity.  Phantasy 2018 does.  I don't feel like making Phantasy stupid to fit another mod's limitations.