Suggestions about new skills and powers

[SmurfInHell]

Might make a caster choose between types of magic instead of being a jack of all trades.

With the new skills, why would not everyone make a fighter if the fighter can gain honor and use holy avenger as a paladin and can gain faith to use clerical spells and gain magic power to use mage spells?  Each choice of profession should make a difference but be balanced.  Not sure the best way to do this, but I think the modder can do this easily given his DM experience.

The magic resist dynamic still is the weakest part of the mod.  Intelligence is the must have attribute due to needing magic resist.  Not sure of other ways to do this such as items or just using level and class.  Maybe even some items that have the effect from inventory without being worn such as the books.  I actually think some more inventory functioning magical items would be grand.  Maybe even a bag of holding or some such to enable certain items to be accessed while away from the inventory chest.

Thoughts on Starting Professions/Classes

So the first two parts are very important and I've dealt with them A TON. It deals with the idea of a person starting as say a cleric, but also being able to learn magic, faith, ETC. Yes, it's POSSIBLE to start off as a fighter then dabble some into magic power and faith, BUT think of the long and short term for that character. If I start off as say a fighter and then spend my next 5 levels pumping cleric skills I might hit level 4 faith with a charisma of 12; this is if I started with decent stats across the board. Pretty cool right? Level 5 with pretty decent fighter capabilities, an alright spread sheet of skills, and some faith skills too boot!

Yet, despite this if I had pumped those 4 stat points into something like strength or agility I could be a significantly better fighter with a higher skill level in power strike, shield, athletics, ironflesh, or so on. The trade off is in your stat and skill points. At early levels trying to do everything will cripple your characters growth ability as they have to invest widely in a lot of stats before they can go toe to toe with other similar or higher level enemy troops. Not only that you will suffer in terms of your leadership ability as all skill points must be used sparingly. If you try to pump INT for extra skills then you'll end up with too many skills and not the prerequisite stat points. 

Even at much higher levels you will not be near as strong as a single disciplined character, or one who is mainly one discipline and uses a second to "augment" his capabilities. The ability to openly switch between them and choose on the fly is a fantastic piece of the game which SHOULDN'T be taken out. It allows flexibility without making the "do everything" option the most rewarding. In fact, it's quite easy to argue the opposite.

Conclusion On Professions/Classes

The choice of profession is MOSTLY a way to get your character started in the way you'd like for them to head. E.G. Cleric get faith abilities early (using charisma = higher squad group = Clerics are good at group support) or the mages that start with wizard spells. The exceptions here are things like Paladin that get special abilities unique to them like the lay on hands, but they also get bonus/negative relations from the beginning of the game.

In Conclusion about the classes and being able to switch: M&B has a great setup that allows for a very unique character path. Almost everyone's will be different and it allows a lot more freedom VS D&D's more restrictive class, stat, and skill variation. The talk of being balanced is something that can be hard to do in such an open type character development. My suggestion would be to find things you find specifically unbalanced and to make a post about it in the suggestions thread for Guspav and others to read over / build upon. Currently, I like the way the system works. The M&B system synergizes well with the new skills/stats that it makes you consider your path a bit more, but it won't punish you if a couple of levels are spent in other skills. Versatile jack of all trades are viable, but won't carry the same power house effect across all their disciplines. On top of the fact that magic power requires magic friendly armor to use effectively; the only instances of that are robes, some medium tier chain, and very high tier twilight armor.

Magic Resistance and New Items

Magic resistance: Yea, very tough thing to balance, but it is currently VERY needed for the way magic damage is setup. I'd like to find a way to really keep this stuff balanced even more so without doing a whole revamp of the system.

New Items: A hundred times yes. I wonder if you could get a very powerful artifact/book that gives your party members +1 magic resist skill? I'm not sure how the bag of holding would work... I wonder if you could use something similar to the discard screen setup; have a specific one linked to a bag of holding to keep it persistent? So you Right click bag of holding in your inventory, then it opens up a "discard" like screen to the left where it shows the bag's contents.

 

[Delora Filth]

Regarding the first two points: I agree very much the current system is preferable to a more linear/restrictive one. Mainly because the other way would basically deny you the opportunity to "multiclass", which is a woefully underappreciated core component of the D&D experience.

 

[fistic86]

the bards should have preform spells that buff or debuff their main weapon could be instruments that give them buffs to their preform skills like staves for wizards

 

[Arctic_Howler]

the bards should have preform spells that buff or debuff their main weapon could be instruments that give them buffs to their preform skills like staves for wizards

I found bards to be more of a buff to party, not just buff to self, but I do agree that bard should get their own magic system and have instrument equipment for skill buff, it would be kinda funny if we could swing it around and/or play it during battle xD

 

[Delora Filth]

Add an epic reinforced and enchanted battle-lute.

 

[fistic86]

the bards should have preform spells that buff or debuff their main weapon could be instruments that give them buffs to their preform skills like staves for wizards

I found bards to be more of a buff to party, not just buff to self, but I do agree that bard should get their own magic system and have instrument equipment for skill buff, it would be kinda funny if we could swing it around and/or play it during battle xD

my lack of comas are embarrassing some times i ment that the bard should be able to buff his party or debuff his enemys, and his main weapon should be an instrument swinging would be ok but dmg should be low the point of instrument could have an effect much like the magic enhancement that staves have also there could be a whole armor set like bardic armor that gives enhance to bard magic make it flamboyant
 

 

[CalvinG]

I agree that the ability to multi-class is useful.  And I don't suggest restricting that entirely.  But now, it appears the most significant benefits can be obtained of all the classes and there is no real incentive to focus on being a pure caster with very high intelligence or a pure fighter, etc.  The really powerful character is the jack of all trades.  It isn't about choosing between two things.  There is no requirement for use of high level spells that restricts the player from other choices.  The person can be as good as anyone else with a sword through practice and yet have access to all spells.  There isn't that much difference between power strike 4 and power strike 9 I don't think that it would be worth giving up what you could otherwise have in the other attribute trees.  I don't object to multi-classing.  I just would like for it to be a real choice instead of one obvious answer.  Of course you want intelligence for the magic resistance.  And you might as well get some other things like path finding and magic and trainer while you are at it.

 

[Delora Filth]

I've never seen the need for all these restrictions. If a player wants to adhere to strict class guidelines they should be perfectly capable of choosing that themselves instead of having the choice pulled down over their heads. I've never had any trouble staying within the ability limits of any specific character archetype I try to play. And I assume some players enjoy playing jack of all trades characters. So why shouldn't they have the option of doing so?

 

[Arctic_Howler]

I agree that the ability to multi-class is useful.  And I don't suggest restricting that entirely.  But now, it appears the most significant benefits can be obtained of all the classes and there is no real incentive to focus on being a pure caster with very high intelligence or a pure fighter, etc.  The really powerful character is the jack of all trades.  It isn't about choosing between two things.  There is no requirement for use of high level spells that restricts the player from other choices.  The person can be as good as anyone else with a sword through practice and yet have access to all spells.  There isn't that much difference between power strike 4 and power strike 9 I don't think that it would be worth giving up what you could otherwise have in the other attribute trees.  I don't object to multi-classing.  I just would like for it to be a real choice instead of one obvious answer.  Of course you want intelligence for the magic resistance.  And you might as well get some other things like path finding and magic and trainer while you are at it.

I agreed and disagree with restrictions, I think the only restrictions should be specialty skills, such as with the paladin's lay on hands, berserker's rage, etc...

I've never seen the need for all these restrictions. If a player wants to adhere to strict class guidelines they should be perfectly capable of choosing that themselves instead of having the choice pulled down over their heads. I've never had any trouble staying within the ability limits of any specific character archetype I try to play. And I assume some players enjoy playing jack of all trades characters. So why shouldn't they have the option of doing so?

Agreed on the ideal that if a player chooses to restrict themselves, they can, instead of forcing restrictions.

 

[Radriel]

I agree with whoever said that necromancy skill should be changed to summoning, unless we want summoning to be a new skill so we can get elementals, animals and illusion armies in here.

I think each class should add something unique to the gameplay such as barbarian rage thing, but i don't like anything that places any actual restriction. Basically, player choice can add things but not block things except by way of not choosing to gain something.

I think some divination spells could be cool. Have a spell that increases Ranged accuracy and zoom distance(True Strike?). Dispel illusion type spell would be good too to counter illusion summons.

Some potent but high cost spells like Power word:w/e(kill, heal, etc)

Some accurate ranged spells that have low-medium damage and travel in a straighter line with faster projectile speed like scorching ray(and ray spells in general) maybe make them rifle skill? or crossbow?

Mage Armor spell would be nice. Maybe just make it add extra HP if armor is too hard to implement.

blink spell could be cool. Increase movement by 1000% for 1 sec or .5 sec? cost should be prohibitive though.

Phantom steed spell. I mean why not? should be easy to do. Just a re-textured horse.


And what about spells you can use on the map? is that possible?

Just putting things out there

 

[WizardOfAtlantis]

I've never seen the need for all these restrictions. If a player wants to adhere to strict class guidelines they should be perfectly capable of choosing that themselves instead of having the choice pulled down over their heads. I've never had any trouble staying within the ability limits of any specific character archetype I try to play. And I assume some players enjoy playing jack of all trades characters. So why shouldn't they have the option of doing so?

Exactly. I, for example, simply cannot play a cleric and then go to market and buy him an edged weapon. It's hard-wired in me. Just like I think Paladins better be going off to battle with great big swords (and maybe polearms) or the good gods of war will be raining curses down on their heads and that guy in that universe is not going to have a good time, so big swords it is for all my paladins.

Instead of restrictions (like Paladins not being able to use stealthy weapons), couldn't there be bonuses for correct behavior instead? Clerics that get +1 to power strike for using a blunt weapon or a rogue that gets +1 power strike when using a single-handed sword? or something along those lines... Rewarding positivity along character class lines might be more fun than restricting choices.

 

[Arctic_Howler]

I've never seen the need for all these restrictions. If a player wants to adhere to strict class guidelines they should be perfectly capable of choosing that themselves instead of having the choice pulled down over their heads. I've never had any trouble staying within the ability limits of any specific character archetype I try to play. And I assume some players enjoy playing jack of all trades characters. So why shouldn't they have the option of doing so?

Exactly. I, for example, simply cannot play a cleric and then go to market and buy him an edged weapon. It's hard-wired in me. Just like I think Paladins better be going off to battle with great big swords (and maybe polearms) or the good gods of war will be raining curses down on their heads and that guy in that universe is not going to have a good time, so big swords it is for all my paladins.

Instead of restrictions (like Paladins not being able to use stealthy weapons), couldn't there be bonuses for correct behavior instead? Clerics that get +1 to power strike for using a blunt weapon or a rogue that gets +1 power strike when using a single-handed sword? or something along those lines... Rewarding positivity along character class lines might be more fun than restricting choices.

I would agree with that if he ties in the deity system for all classes and uses their deity weapons for which weapon you'd get a bonus for using, though honestly that would require a-whole-nother underlying script that would possibly bog down the rest of the calibrations along the way, especially during fights...

 

[awkwarrd]

I would agree with that if he ties in the deity system for all classes and uses their deity weapons for which weapon you'd get a bonus for using, though honestly that would require a-whole-nother underlying script that would possibly bog down the rest of the calibrations along the way, especially during fights...

I thought the mod was upgraded to the new m&b:w mod system or whatever it was.
I assume this would not be an issue anymore.

 

[Arctic_Howler]

I would agree with that if he ties in the deity system for all classes and uses their deity weapons for which weapon you'd get a bonus for using, though honestly that would require a-whole-nother underlying script that would possibly bog down the rest of the calibrations along the way, especially during fights...

I thought the mod was upgraded to the new m&b:w mod system or whatever it was.
I assume this would not be an issue anymore.

Too many underlying scripts can bog down any system... it's just like with how if there's too many textures being loaded at once, you can CTD when fighting the elves. If the game has to make too many checks repeatedly, it can bog down the game/CTD. There's several modules that have such issues because they have way too many events happening all at once, if you haven't noticed any issues when the factions rally the troops, you're lucky, because I constantly have a pause that occurs part way into the event in this module, nothing serious but it still does it, and I can't fight the elves because of their armor and weapons being too detailed for the game, it's not constantly maintaining such detail so whenever I get close, my graphics card has to re-adapt to them.

 

[WizardOfAtlantis]

oh, well 

 

[McBaconEggen]

Hi, I'm just going to rattle off a few ideas for new spells,

Petrify (or maybe just a quest where a high level cleric can "cure" it, maybe off a new companion, or possibly a non combat spell to store prisoners)

A summon-able stack of "Holy Lances" for clerics, just re-skinned golden light javelins basically (i know the spiritual hammer, fills this niche, but maybe these could be a more viable weapon for sieges? increasing the projectile speed to bow speeds?)

I would **** my pants if meteor swarm was a possibility, not sure if it's do-able, but if so i would love you forever.

Some form of a prismatic spell, (spray, or orb etc.) effects such as Petrify (fingers crossed), knock outs, blindness, charm etc. You know, a lot of the effects you already have implemented

Earthquake, could just use blunt damage and knock down, like a horse charge.

A temporary physical wall spell, (ice wall, stone wall etc.) could be used to seal siege points or protect archers/mages

A teleport, i.e. you just teleport to thrown location. maybe increase fall damage to require precise aiming/nerf overuse

Ice spells would be cool (no pun intended)

 

[Suminagashi]

Some form of a prismatic spell,

A temporary physical wall spell, (ice wall, stone wall etc.) could be used to seal siege points or protect archers/mages

Prismatic Wall, perhaps? I'm not entirely sure how creating a wall would work in terms of coding and design. I guess you would spawn an object in front of you or at the target location, and that object would basically block movement and projectiles? But I don't know how well the engine supports spawning objects like that, unless it's a "character" with a wall model of sorts, which doesn't move or attack. Although, I think the Prismatic Wall in particular doesn't block movement, just certain attacks and has other utility effects. Interesting idea, though!

Also, I had a chuckle with your Petrify suggestion when I imagined someone decorating their castle with their prisoners, instead of selling or putting them to work.

 

[McBaconEggen]

Also, I had a chuckle with your Petrify suggestion when I imagined someone decorating their castle with their prisoners, instead of selling or putting them to work.

"Yeah, you like that one? That's King Harry or Harly or something. He was all like, 'Bow before the might of Swadia!' and then ZAP! He's a bird toilet now."

"What? Don't give me that stony glare."

The castle hadn't had any visitors for years.

 

[vensersprodigy]

Some ideas I have:
Change the magic sword/hammer of faith into magic weapon and weapon of faith. You can use the camp menu to choose what kind of weapon type it is, and whether its good, neutral, or evil. Evil gives a black weapon, neutral gives a grey or purple weapon for faith and magic respectively, and good gives a white/blue weapon for faith and magic respectively. Ranged attacks cost faith/mana, with bows/crossbows/guns giving a more efficient conversion in exchange for the ability to melee.

Give the player the ability to found custom settlements (warband update of original M&B mod found here: http://www.nexusmods.com/mbwarband/mods/3900/?) with a custom player faction (base code found here: http://www.nexusmods.com/mbwarband/mods/3633/?). Allow the player to manually set alignment and racial enmity for rp, with bonuses for warring with said factions to discourage enmity: none without disabling it. Would not affect foreign units, so hiring dwarves from the dwarf nation while you are a faction of drow won't make the dwarves happy.

Currently creativity (as far as I'm aware) does nothing for the player character. Why not switch Berembert's skill check to engineering, and allow player engineers to make his items in a workshop. Since gnomes get a bonus to engineering, it fits perfectly. Berembert then works as a portable workshop. Optionally, you could make engineering a alternative to faith and magic. Use a utility belt as the spell book and add gadgets to it via the camp menu, like spell scrolls, along with some passive boosts.

A new skill called Warlord. Warlord allows you to rally units to your cause, with more units flocking to your banner based on prestige and wealth. As a camp action you could rally units in the field, with higher levels offering more powerful units, but less of them. Level one would unlock goblins, farmers, drunkards, generaly weak but relatively numerous units and shows you have become a novice rabble-rouser. Level ten would be the equivalent of an avatar of war beckoning champions and terrible creatures to do his bidding. Of course, you have to feed these men which can be a problem for a warlord of great prestige but poor wealth.

Possible system: divine favor. Pick a diety, any diety! follow that diety's commandments, gain favor. Spend that favor as a camp action, but beware! You never know how much you have, and asking too much will earn your diety's wrath. Maybe give each diety a unique option to spend favor on.

Apocalypse, now! becoming a great cleric/wizard/necromancer/engineer/whatever (basically having 10 points in the skill) will allow you to attempt to cause doomsday! it doesn't actually end the game, but weakens other factions allowing you to more easily conquer the world. Summon Cthullu, Channel the Void, create a necromantic plague, create a explosion so big it devastates eco-systems, make REALLY spicy curry! Each will cause a host of problems for NPC lords, so you can take advantage of the chaos.

That's all I have for now. Gond requires that I conquer the world, FOR THE GNOMES! MWA HA HA HA HA!

 

[sikatjamban]

How about necromancy spell to raise undead/shadow from the fallen, MID BATTLE? I was particularly interested with the concept of necromancy here, but so far as i know, it's more like leading a mass of shadowy dudes and praying that they don't turn on your ass.

From then, maybe you could have the priest counterpart of it, reviving the unconscious allies instead of the dead ones. Both with the limitation of once per battle, expensive to cast, or something for balance purposes, I'm sure you guys know better about this than me.
Heck, make it a 5-sec "don't move" restriction to simulate casting 

The raised undead could have a chance of becoming enemy instead of your minion depending on necromancy skill, whereas priest revive only raises a fraction of your unconscious allies depending on faith.

The point is, I think both necromancy and faith-based powers need more usefulness in critical moments instead of just mass producing shadows and spamming heal from behind the infantry line.