MP Suggestion: "X" changes melee weapon animations

[Bronk the Raven]

I like the idea of stances, and the variation they add to animations, and thus the physics-based combat system. A couple quick thoughts on current stance system before detailing my suggestion:

I'm still not completely used to the way they are currently implemented; the way they affect attack speed sort of mimics the need for footwork I already got used to using in Warband to increase swing speed and thus damage: stepping into the direction of the swing just before swinging gives the bonus.

The main difference is the timing. In Warband, not only is the rhythm of attacking and blocking different, you could move in the direction of the swing after you released the swing. In Bannerlord, you must move before you wind up to get the best attack. Potentially a couple seconds of difference, everything else equal. This would feel more natural if the walk/run toggle key wasn't an on/off switch but a press and hold kind of toggle. Just add that in addition for best results, and bada bing bada boom I can walk or zoom and swing at a dude all the more naturally with what you already coded.

Here's the actual suggestion, spent a few minutes searching and couldn't find a thread with this already:
For EVERY melee weapon, allow pressing "X" to toggle, similar to how it is used with throwing weapons, swing animations. For best results, change the stats to reflect what might be the result of using the weapon differently in these new animations. Generally, there would be 2 dichotomies to switch between: slow, big swings vs tight, quick swings. The difference in speed and damage shouldn't be too dramatic. The main issue is the change in animation, thus where your attack line is and your chance of landing a hit.

For example, with a spear, pressing "X" would choke up the hands to the tip; weapon reach would be greatly reduced, but thrust damage and speed would be greatly increased. This allows spears to be used in close-combat, in ways they actually were. This would benefit AI and players alike. The main dichotomy here is slower and longer reach vs quicker and shorter reach; damage could stay the same, but imo it makes sense to increase damage on the choked position because you have more control of the point in aiming (irl).

Another example: press "X" wielding a spiked one-handed axe and it simply flips the axe such that the spike is facing out, blade facing in. Here the main dichotomy is damage type: cut vs pierce; swing speed and range should stay the same.

Another example: a polearm like the menavlion would switch between broad, wide swinging attacks and tighter attacks with a smaller radius. The only difference concerning speed would be the difference in time it takes to complete the swing animation; the actual swing speed could stay the same, so the wide swings only take longer because that's a farther distance to swing. But the damage for the tighter attacks should probably be slightly reduced to balance the DPS of the weapon.

I'm begging the devs to do this. From where I'm sitting, it looks like you have the foundation to do this, it's just a matter of getting the new animations in place and balancing the numbers. This would help so much with attacks not getting caught on friendlies, countering armor, attacks not wall-whiffing... generally it just adds flexibility to the combat. I think this should be for SP and MP.

And yes, I drew inspiration from Stars Wars Jedi Academy ?

 

[rektasaurus]

I like the idea of stances, and the variation they add to animations, and thus the physics-based combat system. A couple quick thoughts on current stance system before detailing my suggestion:

I'm still not completely used to the way they are currently implemented; the way they affect attack speed sort of mimics the need for footwork I already got used to using in Warband to increase swing speed and thus damage: stepping into the direction of the swing just before swinging gives the bonus.

The main difference is the timing. In Warband, not only is the rhythm of attacking and blocking different, you could move in the direction of the swing after you released the swing. In Bannerlord, you must move before you wind up to get the best attack. Potentially a couple seconds of difference, everything else equal. This would feel more natural if the walk/run toggle key wasn't an on/off switch but a press and hold kind of toggle. Just add that in addition for best results, and bada bing bada boom I can walk or zoom and swing at a dude all the more naturally with what you already coded.

Here's the actual suggestion, spent a few minutes searching and couldn't find a thread with this already:
For EVERY melee weapon, allow pressing "X" to toggle, similar to how it is used with throwing weapons, swing animations. For best results, change the stats to reflect what might be the result of using the weapon differently in these new animations. Generally, there would be 2 dichotomies to switch between: slow, big swings vs tight, quick swings. The difference in speed and damage shouldn't be too dramatic. The main issue is the change in animation, thus where your attack line is and your chance of landing a hit.

For example, with a spear, pressing "X" would choke up the hands to the tip; weapon reach would be greatly reduced, but thrust damage and speed would be greatly increased. This allows spears to be used in close-combat, in ways they actually were. This would benefit AI and players alike. The main dichotomy here is slower and longer reach vs quicker and shorter reach; damage could stay the same, but imo it makes sense to increase damage on the choked position because you have more control of the point in aiming (irl).

Another example: press "X" wielding a spiked one-handed axe and it simply flips the axe such that the spike is facing out, blade facing in. Here the main dichotomy is damage type: cut vs pierce; swing speed and range should stay the same.

Another example: a polearm like the menavlion would switch between broad, wide swinging attacks and tighter attacks with a smaller radius. The only difference concerning speed would be the difference in time it takes to complete the swing animation; the actual swing speed could stay the same, so the wide swings only take longer because that's a farther distance to swing. But the damage for the tighter attacks should probably be slightly reduced to balance the DPS of the weapon.

I'm begging the devs to do this. From where I'm sitting, it looks like you have the foundation to do this, it's just a matter of getting the new animations in place and balancing the numbers. This would help so much with attacks not getting caught on friendlies, countering armor, attacks not wall-whiffing... generally it just adds flexibility to the combat. I think this should be for SP and MP.

And yes, I drew inspiration from Stars Wars Jedi Academy ?

I like this idea a lot. I think it would be better implemented by changing the speeds between click attack and hold attack. That would make it more intuitive and would involve less button pushing.

To your point on movement, I find that I need to start swinging before I hit a move key otherwise the swing completes by the time I move to where I wanted. Slowing down default speed with a weapon out and a nice hold-a-button to slightly increase speed would be very cool to “shuffle” quickly, I think that’s what you’re getting at?

How is the speed bonus calculated? Is it walk in the direction before attack because movement needs to be activated before swinging to get the bonus?

 

[Thistle]

+

 

[CarefulDeath]

Ah, It's nice to see some other people familiar with the Jedi Knight series (Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy specifically) and how similar their lightsaber combat is to Warband/Bannerlord.

I thought the same thing about the stance system myself, regulating it to a button to press rather than movement. By default in the game you mentioned, there were three lightsaber stances to cycle through mapped by default by pushing the middle mouse button or pushing the mouse wheel. It made changing stances more flexible mid combat and less predictable since you don't need to simply look where the enemy is moving in.

You put a little more thought into what stances could mean to the game far more than I did and I think it's a good idea to add more versatility to weapons and adapt to changing circumstances surrounding melee combat such as teammates around you, more enclosed spaces, etc.

Ideally you could make minor differences to swing speeds and damage output, and also give more flavor to stances like they had for the games from which this idea draws inspiration from. IE, switching to a shorter reach stance might give you a bit better swing speed, but a little lighter on the damage, but also a little faster to block, etc. But your Idea as is would be plenty good enough I think.

If Devs did this, I'd probably find the game a whole lot more fun and interesting.

 

[rektasaurus]

Yoo Jedi Academy 2 les gooo!

The more I play the easier it is to manage the stance system the way it is. I think it already does the faster swing and higher damage bits like swinging a baseball bat. The differences are almost negligible now. I quite like it and wish they made the differences bigger so that the stance has more meaning.

I also totally like the idea to change polearm use by pressing x and I too would love to see more variation, and I love the idea for the menav. I would love to see the tighter arc behavior applied to left right swings for spears which have leaf blades, not points, and x to switch it to thrown. Pikes can brace with x. Love the idea to hit x to use the hook on the back of a gisarme or bill hook to pull riders down. I hope they’re planning this, polearms need some loving.