[Suggestion] Tiny adjustments - horses

[obolus]

everybody agrees warhorses are useless, nobody can agree how to solve that. i've made one suggestion about this already, i'll come up with more complex suggestion now to be discussed.

most people just say buff warhorse and leave other horses as they are. i don't think this will change anything since stubborn horses are still very usable and if they are faster, they will still prevail over warhorses - so i say buff warhorse/charger and debuff other horses in this way

1 - add ability for warhorses/chargers that while couching at low speed, you have still shield up
to give them some way how to fight xbowmen, archers. also this would support couching as it appears only seldom in the game (usually for kill from the back)  its very easy to hit rider with xbow while he is charging at you. i think warhorse/charger as a "stable platform" could have this benefit. at low speed i think you are able to control the horse by legs, still have shield up and couched lance. warhorses/chargers can even now couch in low speed, but this lonely benefit is not worth for choosing warhorse over some cheap horse. giving them shield up ability is good option.

2 - add that cool ability for chargers/warhorses that they can kick those in front of them (when pressed space at minimum speed)
sbdy mentioned it here, i think its great idea. it would be great fun, would add cool feature for warhorses that everybody agrees they need some. also in reality warhorses were behaving like that

3 - add trample damage for chargers when you ride over sbdy
special feature just for chargers to make them count over warhorses.

4 - more armor for warhorses/chargers or make that armor count
its obvious why, i think sooner or later this will be implemented in the game. i'm quite sure. i think armor should be for warhorse and especially for charger usefull against missiles. that was in fact the main reason why armored horses appeared (to counter mass groups of archers that could bring down unarmored horses before cavalry reached them)

5 - debuff lowcost horses - they should loose abilities to maneuver, speed and jump if they are low on health
this debuff would affect stubborn horse (below 70 percents of hp)
this debuff would affect steppe horse and courser (below 50 percents of hp)
hunter could stay about the same (no degeneration) same for warhorse/charger

i'm not saying how much speed, maneuver loss would appear or when horse shouldn't be able to jump, it would have to be tweaked over time. this idea is meant against those heads up against archers charges with lowcost horses that still appear.
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what i am trying to achieve?

- first of all bigger differences between the horses types - now there are only very few differences. i like variety.
- lowcost horses are now working as the only cavalry, they shouldn't be used for heads up charges even against archers as they are used now (thats the debuff idea after losing hp for them)
- i dont want to limit their (courser, steppe, stubborn) surprise attacks, i wouldn't even make warhorses or chargers faster for this reason - speed should be dominant feature for coursers and steppe horses
- the fine tuning of the horses after implementing this would be only by HP/ARMOR/PRICE adjustment

i believe that if horses would work this way, we could see the difference between horses as we don't see them now. lowcost horses would still be fast and usable for surprise attacks, for distraction of troops etc. but they'd have to still beware of archers more than they have to now.
on the other hand warhorses/chargers would get some cool boosts (shield up while couching at low speed, kicking, trampling) so against infantry they'd rock more than the normal horses now.

i believe this is not debuffing any class - it just gives better options for those who are able to afford a good horse and worse options for those, who want to ROCK ON STUBBORN horse like Kevlar.

(p.s. i promise this is my last suggestion about horses)

 

[inox_ionizer]

on the other hand warhorses/chargers would get some cool boosts (shield up while couching at low speed, kicking, trampling) so against infantry they'd rock more than the normal horses now.

I don't think cavalry need more advantages over infantry.

 

[obolus]

on the other hand warhorses/chargers would get some cool boosts (shield up while couching at low speed, kicking, trampling) so against infantry they'd rock more than the normal horses now.

I don't think cavalry need more advantages over infantry.

in a complex way this suggestion is not aimed to boost cavalry, its aimed to boost warhorses and deboost crap horses.

if somebody will have money for a good horse, i think he should feel the difference and same for those that buy only cheap horse.

warhorses would be stronger, crap horses would be weaker - overall result is that cavalry would stay about the same. i'm not against some adjustments, don't think my suggestion is ultra genial, but i believe these ideas are focused well in a general way.

 

[looy]

I just think warhorses need a massive health boost, currently their HP advantage over other horses is barely noticeable.

 

[grimage]

What is the difference between the types of horses as we see in M&B, in real?
In my opinion, there are:
-Stats: Acceleration, max speed, reactivity, nervosity, strength, temper, weight
-Training
-Armor
-Price

In M&B, we currently have:
-Price
-Armor
-Speed
-Maneuver
-Charge
-Hit points

Something strikes me (other than your blades, mates): The lack of personnality and behavior of the horses in M&B. If you really want to differentiate them, they should have an autonomous behavior. they should receive commands from their rider as now, but confront them to the situation: if the orders drive them in a wall or a person, they should avoid the obstacle. If they are hit, they should panic unless well trained or well driven by their rider. So, a trained horse like a charger or warhorse would answer best to his rider's commands, caring less for the environment, whereas a poorly trained horse (saddle horse for example), wouldn't (avoid contact, rear in front of an opponent, panic and flee when hit...).

Now, as we go, if we have to change something, i think it's about stats tuning.
Chargers and warhorses suffer most from their very high price, and do not benefit well from their armor. As it seems realistic to maintain a lower value for speed and maneuver from their armor and heavier shape, they may benefit from a better impact of armor and charge, though i've not tested them enough to tell how.

So, lower price, rework armor and charge to higher efficiency, those are my advices for current balance of high end horses of M&B: Warband.
If they have to rework something larger, it's horse behavior.
In order to answer to OP, i somewhat agree on points 3 and 4, as i said, but i don't believe in 1, 2 and 5:
1) I don't see why it wouldn't apply to all of them. Less stable? I'm not so sure.
2) Same as 1) Why only one type of horse? Moreover, i'm not very convinced it's a pertinent feature to add. Side note: use "ctrl + J" for rearing, no need of space bar
5) Same as 1) and 2) Why only one type of horse? I would love a different wound system, both for horses and actors, without stupid health bars, where each wound would have a penalizing effect, and a chance of incapacitating, directly, or by side effects (blood loss, stun, immobilisation...). But all should be concerned, not just low end horses.

 

[PsykoOps]

1 - add ability for warhorses/chargers that while couching at low speed, you have still shield up

As far as I know if you miss the rider and hit the shield it's blocked. So the shield is already up.

2 - add that cool ability for chargers/warhorses that they can kick those in front of them (when pressed space at minimum speed)
sbdy mentioned it here, i think its great idea. it would be great fun, would add cool feature for warhorses that everybody agrees they need some. also in reality warhorses were behaving like that

Also kick backward also. Warhorses also were trained to bite. Not sure if they should do that in game also. Then there's the matter wheter the player should be the one who controls it or the horse does it automatically.

3 - add trample damage for chargers when you ride over sbdy
special feature just for chargers to make them count over warhorses.

Good idea.

4 - more armor for warhorses/chargers or make that armor count
its obvious why, i think sooner or later this will be implemented in the game. i'm quite sure. i think armor should be for warhorse and especially for charger usefull against missiles. that was in fact the main reason why armored horses appeared (to counter mass groups of archers that could bring down unarmored horses before cavalry reached them)

Armor on the horses is fine, it's a speed boost they need.

 

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Something strikes me (other than your blades, mates): The lack of personnality and behavior of the horses in M&B. If you really want to differentiate them, they should have an autonomous behavior. they should receive commands from their rider as now, but confront them to the situation: if the orders drive them in a wall or a person, they should avoid the obstacle. If they are hit, they should panic unless well trained or well driven by their rider. So, a trained horse like a charger or warhorse would answer best to his rider's commands, caring less for the environment, whereas a poorly trained horse (saddle horse for example), wouldn't (avoid contact, rear in front of an opponent, panic and flee when hit...).

Now this would be a very cool feature!  Then more expensive horses trained for war would defiantly be worth the extra gold.

 

[Kleidophoros]

Something strikes me (other than your blades, mates): The lack of personnality and behavior of the horses in M&B. If you really want to differentiate them, they should have an autonomous behavior. they should receive commands from their rider as now, but confront them to the situation: if the orders drive them in a wall or a person, they should avoid the obstacle. If they are hit, they should panic unless well trained or well driven by their rider. So, a trained horse like a charger or warhorse would answer best to his rider's commands, caring less for the environment, whereas a poorly trained horse (saddle horse for example), wouldn't (avoid contact, rear in front of an opponent, panic and flee when hit...).

Now this would be a very cool feature!  Then more expensive horses trained for war would defiantly be worth the extra gold.

Horse AI, suggested many times, implemented in a quite cool way in a ps2 game i-dont-remember-its-name.

 

[Kapt Torbjorn]

Something strikes me (other than your blades, mates): The lack of personnality and behavior of the horses in M&B. If you really want to differentiate them, they should have an autonomous behavior. they should receive commands from their rider as now, but confront them to the situation: if the orders drive them in a wall or a person, they should avoid the obstacle. If they are hit, they should panic unless well trained or well driven by their rider. So, a trained horse like a charger or warhorse would answer best to his rider's commands, caring less for the environment, whereas a poorly trained horse (saddle horse for example), wouldn't (avoid contact, rear in front of an opponent, panic and flee when hit...)

So, players should have their horses auto-correct when they're going to crash into something?  That's just silly.  Horses getting stopped on objects are one of the few ways that players without spears can kill them, and that would essentially remove that.

 

[Llew2]

1 - add ability for warhorses/chargers that while couching at low speed, you have still shield up

As far as I know if you miss the rider and hit the shield it's blocked. So the shield is already up.

As he said, the shield is already up, but I think it would be cool if on warhorses, it moved up deliberately to block most of the chest.