[suggestion] Sieges and Siege Maps - plus a proposal.

[Teala]

Siege maps are awesome, and I love playing them, however, I feel the siege maps could use a little rework.  For instance castles should be in the center of the map and then spawn points for attackers should be located at various locations around the castle.  This will allow attackers to attack from all sides without having to run all the way around like in some maps to breach doors or to get to the ladders and this would also force the defenders to spread out and defend multiple points of their castles.  As it is now, defenders just run to a given spot because they know exactly where the main force is coming from. 

Also, I propose that siege maps be ranked, from 1-5.  1 being some what easy defend and assault and 5 being the most difficult.  With the ranking also comes a longer time limit to defend and attack.  For instance on the level 1 siege map you'll have 7 minutes to take control of the castle.  For a level 5 you have 15 minutes.

Plus we need weather effects to be an option on these maps.  It would add some serious atmosphere to the game and be fun.

One last thing.  I would love to see a large 64 player map that has a castle similar to Raglan castle where players must take control of more than one area to win the match.  For instance they would have to take the castle courtyards and then the castles keep.  I made a map to show what I am talking about.

 

[Urist]

After taking the majority of the castle, I would just a bring my cup to the buttery and wait there
until the defenders starved to death in their precious great tower.

But great idea. I would like to see step-by-step sieges too.

 

[Temuzu]

Dragons here?

Anyway,a good idea.

 

[Teala]

Dragons here?

Anyway,a good idea.

It's called humor.  LOL! 

 

[Ehecatzin]

I support this idea.

Playing castle 3 the other day we were having a really interesting battle to defend the gatehouse, and when it was finally lost, to defend the courtyard (which is actually fun to defend) problem is, precicely as the OP points out, lack of time, and having only 1 target to take, which throws a lot of the castle to waste.

several layers of defense along with diferent capturable objectives would take advantage of complex designs like castle 3.

Being able to capture, say a bastion in the walls, should allow for closer respawn for the attackers, and faster respawn for the defenders (to keep things balanced) The final fight for the final bastion (not a courtyard) should be the most interesting and intense.

I would also like to suggest something if such a system would be implemented,  adding extra time for the attackers if they manage to take a new control point, that way the defenders will try harder to defend the outer walls and end the match early instead of turtling in say the central tower. And it would allowe succesful attacks to gain momentun instead of ending suddenly because of timelimit.

Seriously castles in the style of castle 3 have massive potential if they get reworked a bit more.

 

[Ursca]

Sign me up for multiple-objective sieges. Siege 3 is easily the best and most fun siege map so far, and it would really be improved by different layers of defence.
Lots of cubby holes and doors would be great fun. Maybe an objective in a gatehouse in order to open access to the rest of the castle.

 

[Ehecatzin]

I think thats why castle 3 is so damm fun, the gatehouse does give acces to the rest of the castle, but it has several stacks of defense and posible attack areas, its quick to reinforce and both teams will fight the hell to control it, now imagine several layers of that and you got the game mode with the most tactical depth and intensity.

By the way, I've always wandered why in a medieval game is the courtyard the main objective instead of a keep.

 

[Freddex]

Looks cool!
I support that idea.

 

[Saatana]

I'm not a fan of capture-the-courtyard either. I think the attackers should capture the defenders' spawn points instead. Spawn points could include gatetower, lord's hall, barracks, some big tower...

Would get rid of that surprise capture where one fool forces the entire garrison to surrender.

 

[Teala]

At castle siege 3 having one main spot for attackers to spawn at is just insane.  If what I saw tonight is any indication of what we can expect when 35+ people are playing on the server - it is almost impossible to survive the onslaught of arrows and bolts that come from the defenders.  Imagine what this will be like and we are trying to rush the castle and they can put 30+ archer or crossbowman alone on one side of the castle.  We need multiple spawn points to spread defenders and attackers out so that we're not all bunched up.  Especailly with people who seem to get one headshot after another(omg some of those people never missed) it is almost impossible to storm the castle befoe the 5 minute timer is up.  That is another thing...the timer for castle siege 3 needs to be longer.  With that many people playing it is impossible to take the castle.    In the times that I played we never once managed to take it - not once.

 

[CalenLoki]

Teala - some of your ideas are good (this one included), but 90% of them would fit very well in existing topics - try search from time to time

Nice castle, but I would change dragon to some cave troll - they are easier to implement

 

[Harn]

At castle siege 3 having one main spot for attackers to spawn at is just insane.  If what I saw tonight is any indication of what we can expect when 35+ people are playing on the server - it is almost impossible to survive the onslaught of arrows and bolts that come from the defenders.  Imagine what this will be like and we are trying to rush the castle and they can put 30+ archer or crossbowman alone on one side of the castle.  We need multiple spawn points to spread defenders and attackers out so that we're not all bunched up.  Especailly with people who seem to get one headshot after another(omg some of those people never missed) it is almost impossible to storm the castle befoe the 5 minute timer is up.  That is another thing...the timer for castle siege 3 needs to be longer.  With that many people playing it is impossible to take the castle.    In the times that I played we never once managed to take it - not once.

Yeah, I watched quite a few games on this map, and what I saw was that if the defenders had bows instead of crossbows, they could effectively go on the offensive and lock down the attackers to their spawn. The attackers could definitely use some barricades to hide behind and allow them to reasonably push forward. The siege tower alone is insufficient for this role. This paired with the fact that defenders shouldn't be able to jump down 30 feet from a castle wall of course.

In regards to the OP, I always enjoyed this game mode in games like the Unreal Tournament series with layered objectives. I love the idea of attacking a castle in steps like you initially posted. I would love to see something large like that castle you posted be implemented actually, although attack points on opposite sides of the map seem to really hurt game play in pubs. Players tend to be too disorganized in mounting total defenses. They just want to cluster to the nearest point that the enemy attack at. Playing defense at the back door is boring. Multiple spawn points also brings up dispersal of class troops in a balanced manner. A group of archers alone won't be able to launch a very effective assault against a wall.

 

[Ehecatzin]

about the spawn point, perhaps the attackers could made a poll to switch respawn point? that way if they are having difficulties they can poll to switch it..I know nooo more polls please...but this one actually affects the ongoing battle instead of quiting. and people love to poll so why not.

 

[Beaver]

Yes, this is a great idea. 

 

[Jomastian]

I am all in for that too. Reminds me of the cool objective based MP mode in Unreal Tournament 2004.
As for spawnpoint poll that would be an excellent idea!

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

It has been suggested in the past to make siege gameplay more tug-of-war in their nature.  If anyone has played "Day of Defeat" they might recall that taking flags had to be in a linear fashion but would move spawn points up.

Ideally I would love to see a castle that has a ring wall.  The first step would be to take the outer wall (namely the gatehouse) and then the defenders spawn at the inner castle wall or keep.

These maps are a work in progress, but Castle 3 has given me much hope for them.

 

[TRU]

The repeated long walk to the castle while defenders pick apart the scattered attackers is one issue for me. Waiting by this stupid flag while archers basically play target practice after your 2 minute walk is another issue.

I'd like to see captured points, as in you clear the defenders, touch the flag/area and you captured it. Or destroyable objectives like fnd mode. Maybe even having an NPC King/Lord at the top of the tower.

It would be great if the attackers could capture areas along the way and then be able to spawn from there. The defenders would spawn further back as each point is captured.

In Castle 3 there are 2 ladders facing the front of the castle, once you are over those ladders you should capture those points and be able to spawn from there.

Then there's the door on the left leading into courtyard, once you get into there you should be able to spawn in the courtyard.

At this point the defenders are spawning only inside the center tower where the final objective is. Or the final objective could just be whichever the attackers capture last.

 

[Vermin]

I've said it before and people here mentioned it aswell.
There should be a flag in the battlements that the attackers can take as a spawn, although initially they'd have to cross an open field, they'd have some cover once they got into the outer part of the castle when they spawn.

It would keep people on the attacking from leaving the server because its so frustrating

 

[Beaver]

That's a good idea as long as the defenders can take it back. Also, if they attackers have taken that spawn, the defenders shouldn't be able to spawn there anymore (on castle 3, it's terribly annoying when you've checked a room and then when you turn to leave someone spawns behind you and kills you).

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

That's a good idea as long as the defenders can take it back. Also, if they attackers have taken that spawn, the defenders shouldn't be able to spawn there anymore (on castle 3, it's terribly annoying when you've checked a room and then when you turn to leave someone spawns behind you and kills you).

Quoting for emphasis....Beaver raises the key points.  That is why I believe in castles with inner and outer walls