[Suggestion] Shield holding and invisible force field

What you think?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • I've got a better idea (post)

    Votes: 2 40.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Users who are viewing this thread

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
First of all I'd like to point to this video which explains shields holding quite well. I know it's been posted before but on the offchange the devs haven't seen it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdHo-1jbX1A

So suggestions:
Change shield holding to a handle on the center of the shield. You can then replace kick with a shield bash animation for shield users. Keep the current holding for mounted players thought. Remove the invisible force field and make shield skill only add to the endurance of shields. Make shields 'floating' so you can move them while you hold the block enough to block up and down to cover from arrows. Also add 4 direction quick shield parrying animation that also can be used for covering against ranged and melee. If used the right way against melee a parry would then do alot less damage to the shield but if used 'wrong direction' it would still block but shield would sustain normal damage.

This would instantly fix the problem with shielded cavalry and add to the possibility of attacking around shields. Balance issues might arise from this but you can lower the boot prices dramatically and at least there would be a reason to buy boots if this were to be done. I for one don't think it isn't very realistic or good for gameplay that the character can magically see every arrow in the air even to the sides and block them without any effort. Also this would fix some hitbox problems with shield coverage and model glitching through shields.




 

Tibertus

Count
M&BWBVC
Key word, ancient shields. Shields started to move away from center grip to strap and grip at the beginning of the middle ages, about the same time that kite and heater type shields came around and the center boss began to disappear. I'd be all for however having different grip positions for different shields, and different attacks for them. Maybe a punch type attack for smaller round shields, and shield strikes with the edge of the shield with strap and grip style shields.

 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
The problem with the current grip is that it would be impossible to block at the feet which is done by the invisible force field. If the center grip is offplace in a medieval game I'd still make it so for the gameplay reasons.
 

Tibertus

Count
M&BWBVC
PsykoOps said:
The problem with the current grip is that it would be impossible to block at the feet which is done by the invisible force field. If the center grip is offplace in a medieval game I'd still make it so for the gameplay reasons.

It'd be plenty easy to protect the feet with strap and grip style with the shields that are meant to be held in that style (heater and kite) if the arm was positioned higher up the shield where it's supposed to be, rather than about midway.
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
Well that's another good idea for a fix then too. You'd still have to make shield movable. Maybe different kind of shields could have the center grip and others the fixed strap and grip. I'd imagine rhodoks and nords shields could be center grip and rest from the upper part with the strap and grip. Is there any sources to see historical data on this? I don't think I've ever seen any. Also the shape of the shield would then become an issue in the game which I'd think would be good as it would increase differences between factions.
 

Tibertus

Count
M&BWBVC
PsykoOps said:
Well that's another good idea for a fix then too. You'd still have to make shield movable. Maybe different kind of shields could have the center grip and others the fixed strap and grip. I'd imagine rhodoks and nords shields could be center grip and rest from the upper part with the strap and grip. Is there any sources to see historical data on this? I don't think I've ever seen any. Also the shape of the shield would then become an issue in the game which I'd think would be good as it would increase differences between factions.

I remember reading it in an Osprey book, also, I had a giant book which catalogued medieval weapons by time period, and had pictures of actual recovered weapons, shields, and armor. I'll really try to find the book for you, but there probably isn't that many internet resources since it's such an old book.
 

Moss

Count
WBWF&S
You already can angle the shield to protect yourself from arrows. Looking up angles the shield upwards, but exposes your feet, angling your view down has the opposite effect.

The problem is that there's no reason to do it, because the shield skill grants extra size to the shield, meaning that it's larger than it's actual mesh, so large infact that it makes angling redundant most of the time. This is kind of silly and unneeded. Having the shield skill only effect speed and durability wouldn't hurt the skills usefulness in singleplayer and would fix all the bugs and balance problems that arise from it.
 

Seawied86

Sergeant Knight
Honestly, the forcefield shield has always bugged me in multiplayer. One man with a cheapo shield can go up against 20 archers and survive easily. There should be some skill involved with shields.


The biggest drawback Ic an think of is that if we implement mesh covering over the current "in-game" covering, is that in order to properly balance shields and make them appealing, a crouch key needs to be added. Otherwise, the mesh of the shield just won't be enough to block all arrows
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
You said it. My biggest beef with shields is that they're too easy to use. There's no skill from the player involved when you just have to hold the block up. I actually don't even take a shield for that reason even if I play crossbowman. Also the invisible forcefield gets quite annoying sometimes especially when shooting at a guy from the side or someone who isn't holding it blocking.
 

Sidus Preclarum

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWB
PsykoOps said:
So suggestions:
Change shield holding to a handle on the center of the shield.

Yes, but only for Nords.
Enarmes for the rest, including the Khegrit round shields.
And if you want shield bash, give the enarmes shields a backhand bash anim, and a punch anim to the handle shields.
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
Sidus Preclarum said:
PsykoOps said:
So suggestions:
Change shield holding to a handle on the center of the shield.

Yes, but only for Nords.
Enarmes for the rest, including the Khegrit round shields.
And if you want shield bash, give the enarmes shields a backhand bash anim, and a punch anim to the handle shields.

Why only nords? Yeah I'm thinking kicking should be replaced by shield bash, hit with the pommel, punch with the shaft of a polearm or whatever is appropriate for all weapons. This was just about the shielded users.
 

Sidus Preclarum

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWB
PsykoOps said:
Why only nords?

Because the others don't use that kind of grip?

*edit* Still a bit confused on how pavise where hold when not set on the ground... The intertubes seem to indicate either handle or enarmes, or even both simultaneoulsy... :/
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
They should. That's the point. If you hold kite shields as they do you can't block down without bending over or crouching. Now the character magically apparently does this.
 

Tibertus

Count
M&BWBVC
PsykoOps said:
They should. That's the point. If you hold kite shields as they do you can't block down without bending over or crouching. Now the character magically apparently does this.

I already addressed that, it's entire the fault of the strap and grip being too far down the shield. A good kite shield should be able to be braced against the ground to protect the feet.

As far as the invisible forcefield protecting feet from strikes. I think the only shield movement required should be to prevent getting hit in the back or sides. Adding too much required shield movement over complicates something which is really rather too simple to have to simulate in game.
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
Tibertus said:
PsykoOps said:
They should. That's the point. If you hold kite shields as they do you can't block down without bending over or crouching. Now the character magically apparently does this.

I already addressed that, it's entire the fault of the strap and grip being too far down the shield. A good kite shield should be able to be braced against the ground to protect the feet.

Yeah except with the size shields we got on the game it would be physically impossible even if you'd hold it from the upper rim.
 

Tibertus

Count
M&BWBVC
Yeah, I think most of the shields are undersized really... It kinda has to do with them being worn on the back. If a full sized shield was worn on someone's back, it'd look pretty silly.
 

Archonsod

Marquis
M&BWBWF&S
Seawied86 said:
The biggest drawback Ic an think of is that if we implement mesh covering over the current "in-game" covering, is that in order to properly balance shields and make them appealing, a crouch key needs to be added. Otherwise, the mesh of the shield just won't be enough to block all arrows
It wouldn't necessarily have to. Even the smallest shields cover the entire torso, the majority would only leave the extremes of the feet and head exposed which are hard enough to hit as is.
 
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