Suggestion: Replace the class system with something that's actually fun.

[Tork789]

Your solution to snowballing is throwing a round away and git gud next time

Where did I say it? Can you point exactly which sentence of mine led you to believe this?

To overcome someone in warband that won 2 rounds in a row, all you had to do was play marginally better

I don't agree with the "marginally better" part, the equip could play a big role. But at least we agree that Warband did have a snowballing issue and no way to counter it.

 

[Jess_the_Hobozerk]

You don't need to lose a round, you just need to spawn 1 less time. You are of course free to try to tackle their advantage using all gold, the difference between you and the opponent is never too big, it's up to you if you want to save money to go two times as a beefier class next round or spend everything right now and go once as a beefy class and once as a lighter one, or maybe several times as a lighter one. It just adds more depth to your decisions.

Where did I say it? Can you point exactly which sentence of mine led you to believe this?


I don't agree with the "marginally better" part, the equip could play a big role. But at least we agree that Warband did have a snowballing issue and no way to counter it.

"you don't need to lose a round, you just need to spawn 1 less time."
That is throwing the round away.

Also no, we do not agree that there was no way to counter it. Also you are significantly over-blowing how great the severity the snowballing 'problem' in warband was.
Requiring 1 extra hit to die is nothing like having to kill your opponent whom is using the strongest class twice to win a round in contrast.

 

[Piconi]

This thread again? I admire the persistence, but the unfortunate fact is that it just will not change it seems.

My estimate from reading the posts earlier in the Beta board is that arround 90% were against it in the Beta stages.

I would really like to see a poll "for and against" premade classes, would be interesting how it would scale with all the new players playing MP now.

I suggest the OP includes a poll.

P.S. devs forbidden to vote due to conflict of interests

 

[Falrock]

The faults with multiplayer right now are..

Class system - Let us spend our points on what armour and weapons we want like Warband, everybody loved that system. (And let us be naked if we want to be stupid, it's our choice.) You could just make it so it's optional for servers.
Naming policy - Don't limit us to one character and one name (Steam name) let us make multiple characters and use multiple names we can play on again like Warband, another great feature of the game that was stripped out for no apparent reason.
Matchmaking - I think this is temporary or choice? I hope so. We don't want this modern crap on our beloved series.
Server restarts - We don't want to join a new server every time a match ends, it gets repetitive.

I'm guessing the server restarts is temporary and maybe the matchmaking but i'm very concerned about the class system and naming/character selection.

 

[Tork789]

That is throwing the round away.

No it's not. If you fail to see it then we have nothing to discuss further.

Requiring 1 extra hit to die is nothing like having to kill your opponent whom is using the strongest class twice to win a round in contrast.

You accuse me of overblowing the snowballing problem in WB yet you try to downplay it yourself. It's not just 1 extra hit to die, it can be more, on top of that they get access to better weapons, cavalry gets longer lances and beefier horses, it's not just "1 more hit to die", not even close.

Meanwhile in BL you only have to play 1 round with 1 less life than your opponent with the very same class and then you're going to be on equal footing the next round, or you might even gain an advantage if you manage to make the enemy spend all his gold. Or you can not do that at all and play at a slight disadvantage with 1 same class and 1-2 lesser classes, but at least your gap won't increase thanks to the 390 gold cap, so you'll still have good chances.

In WB the gap just gets wider with every round lost and every teammate killed.

 

[Jess_the_Hobozerk]

No it's not. If you fail to see it then we have nothing to discuss further.


You accuse me of overblowing the snowballing problem in WB yet you try to downplay it yourself. It's not just 1 extra hit to die, it can be more, on top of that they get access to better weapons, cavalry gets longer lances and beefier horses, it's not just "1 more hit to die", not even close.

Meanwhile in BL you only have to play 1 round with 1 less life than your opponent with the very same class and then you're going to be on equal footing the next round, or you might even gain an advantage if you manage to make the enemy spend all his gold. Or you can not do that at all and play at a slight disadvantage with 1 same class and 1-2 lesser classes, but at least your gap won't increase thanks to the 390 gold cap, so you'll still have good chances.

In WB the gap just gets wider with every round lost and every teammate killed.

You're right, we don't have anything to discuss further. This is going to go no where without throwing actual numbers around and unfortunately we can't even hop into a custom server to get the data we need for BL.

 

[guilemaster]

They're going to kill the multiplayer for the base game with this, I guarantee it. It isn't as fun. It just smells like desperate "esports" and casualization appeal. Talking about spectatorship and stuff. I really hope they'll reconsider because it just isn't as fun as the old games MP was.

 

[Tork789]

You're right, we don't have anything to discuss further. This is going to go no where without throwing actual numbers around and unfortunately we can't even hop into a custom server to get the data we need for BL.

Glad we're finally on the same note.

 

[RemnantHaru]

It's becoming more and more clear that the MP in Bannerlord is going to be completely casual and forgotten. Matchmaking with class systems just completely sucks the soul out of the game and these "features" ruin the ability to create a community. As it's E.A. I am still hoping they will make significant changes but it seems less and less likely. Might have to lean on the modding community.

 

[Mabons]

It's becoming more and more clear that the MP in Bannerlord is going to be completely casual and forgotten. Matchmaking with class systems just completely sucks the soul out of the game and these "features" ruin the ability to create a community. As it's E.A. I am still hoping they will make significant changes but it seems less and less likely. Might have to lean on the modding community.

It's literally not an option anymore for the classes to be removed as far as I understand. It's a big mistake, the native community will move over to a customized mode as soon as it becomes available through mods as they did with Warband when they all left for cRPG or Mercenaries.

 

[guilemaster]

It's literally not an option anymore for the classes to be removed as far as I understand. It's a big mistake, the native community will move over to a customized mode as soon as it becomes available through mods as they did with Warband when they all left for cRPG or Mercenaries.

When you say "not an option" what do you mean exactly? Has TW said it is impossible or something?

 

[Mabons]

When you say "not an option" what do you mean exactly? Has TW said it is impossible or something?

They've repeatedly said it's not changing, "deal with it" attitude basically. So we can all keep trying or just accept it's not gonna happen and native will die as soon as mods come out that gives us the option. Meanwhile I'm directing my efforts to make more interesting or balance the mess of a class system.

 

[dopey]

It's literally not an option anymore for the classes to be removed as far as I understand. It's a big mistake, the native community will move over to a customized mode as soon as it becomes available through mods as they did with Warband when they all left for cRPG or Mercenaries.

Yeah I never really bothered with those mods in warband, but if and when anything similar gets released for bannerlord, I'm out of native fast af if it stays like this.

 

[Scarf Ace]

When you say "not an option" what do you mean exactly? Has TW said it is impossible or something?

Basically, they've outright stated that they're certain this joke of a system is good, and that all the flaws people point out can be explained away by accusing people of Warband fanboyism.
Callum's very few replies usually consisted of rather childish misrepresentations/strawmen of what the community members are requesting.

Generally, rather than respond to any well-reasoned argument, he'd single out posts where people just expressed their frustration. When people then responded to him with careful argumentation, knowing he'd probably see it, he'd go back to radio silence.

This is actually why I wrote the OP with a slightly insulting/****posting tone - impolite posts typically have a higher chance of a developer/Callum response, sadly.

 

[RemnantHaru]

I don't see the logic in their response, classes are in Warband just they add the ability to customize that default class loadout. While the default class equipment was more of an afterthought, it was there. Mordhau, COD, all these casual/mainstream games have class customization while still having set classes. I really don't understand their reasoning with leaving out customization and I have yet to see any response to this question., someone please point me to their response in this regard if it exists.

Throughout the closed beta and now EA, their multiplayer has been an abysmal joke. It honestly feels like a tacked-on throwaway feature just so they can put "Multiplayer" on the game listing. A good example of this is Last of Us multiplayer, complete joke and just a throwaway feature people will play for 20 minutes and never pickup again.

 

[Mabons]

I believe with certain balances and gameplay changes competitive scene can adopt to the new gamemode. However if it's not done. Scene will probably need a "promod" similarly which were introduced to Call of Duty 4 competitive scene back in the day. Which will restrict certain options, balance out differences and make it competitive as it's possible.

Said this a few times already using promod as an example. I'm sure it restricted snipers to bolt actions, allowed AK and M16 only, no grenade launchers etc. all to keep people playing the guns that needed a little skill to use, which kept it interesting.

 

[Shemaforash]

Said this a few times already using promod as an example. I'm sure it restricted snipers to bolt actions, allowed AK and M16 only, no grenade launchers etc. all to keep people playing the guns that needed a little skill to use, which kept it interesting.

We were using a pro-mod in most recent warband tournaments anyway

 

[RCC_God]

We were using a pro-mod in most recent warband tournaments anyway

Really? I’ve played some comp and I thought it was pretty balanced without heavy cav and khergs. Could you explain

 

[guilemaster]

Basically, they've outright stated that they're certain this joke of a system is good, and that all the flaws people point out can be explained away by accusing people of Warband fanboyism.
Callum's very few replies usually consisted of rather childish misrepresentations/strawmen of what the community members are requesting.

Generally, rather than respond to any well-reasoned argument, he'd single out posts where people just expressed their frustration. When people then responded to him with careful argumentation, knowing he'd probably see it, he'd go back to radio silence.

This is actually why I wrote the OP with a slightly insulting/****posting tone - impolite posts typically have a higher chance of a developer/Callum response, sadly.

That's rather disappointing to hear. I step away from the community for a few years and come back to this, not really a good sign. Maybe I'm misremembering but I always thought they were receptive to the community in the past in my limited interactions. I'll hold out hope for now but I guess I shouldn't get too excited.

 

[RCC_God]

Just to add on to this thread tdm sucks. Most of the time you are roped into one of the weak peasant classes while one guy with insane tank armor rampages through the server. Tdm is so restrictive with the class system and for me it’s usually me praying that I get enough kills the first life to snowball out of control the second