Suggestion re Phosphor.

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Does SoD include source code?
  Downloaded 3.92 Full, didn't see source.  Looked at Moddb, didn't see it.
  I'd appreciate source links or it's not something I feel needs my time this month.
  I have enough scheduled for this month if no source.
 
Computica said:
I tossed him the source code everyone so he is free to fully mod the game. Let me know if anyone else wants the source for the 2nd last release of SODW.
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,332942.msg7919380.html#msg7919380
 
I just wanted to say thanks for this great addition. I think its time for your own forum.  :grin:

One thing I don't like is the night time thing. I can move but nothing else can. It looks strange to have the NPC groups running in place and turning to face you. I think it also makes thing easier as you never have to worry about anything while roaming at night, especially if your in the early game.

EDIT: So playing v20 r5 and I think I like the night thing a bit more now. I miss being chased though. :smile: Maybe an option in the Mod Options Panel to turn this on and off? Is this easy to add?

Great mod I must say. Do you think v20 r5 will play well endgame? I must say I don't usually try betas often but after watching the Lets play of your 18.4 version I liked what I saw. If I find any bugs I will report them.

One feature that A New Dawn has is the ability for minor factions to siege and take towns and castles and become a major faction. Its a great feature. Can something like that be added?
 
zodden said:
I just wanted to say thanks for this great addition. I think its time for your own forum.  :grin:

One thing I don't like is the night time thing. I can move but nothing else can. It looks strange to have the NPC groups running in place and turning to face you. I think it also makes thing easier as you never have to worry about anything while roaming at night, especially if your in the early game.

EDIT: So playing v20 r5 and I think I like the night thing a bit more now. I miss being chased though. :smile: Maybe an option in the Mod Options Panel to turn this on and off? Is this easy to add?

Great mod I must say. Do you think v20 r5 will play well endgame? I must say I don't usually try betas often but after watching the Lets play of your 18.4 version I liked what I saw. If I find any bugs I will report them.

One feature that A New Dawn has is the ability for minor factions to siege and take towns and castles and become a major faction. Its a great feature. Can something like that be added?

  Besides the 6 major factions that behave as Native, there are    Falcons, Valahir, Kaikoth (Dwarves), Zann    which are minor factions capable of
sieges and taking towns and castles.  The main problem with adding lots of factions that diplomacy can manage is there is overflow from variables reserved to hold relations between kingdoms; native set aside enough for 10 and by not putting my variables too close to this region a little more can be supported; in KAos political kit the number of factions exactly triples and with 10 factions becoming 30 the game hangs on initializing.  I'll probably get the "auto-rebellion" working this week, which allows each faction to have an active rebel faction as well, thus doubling the factions immediately, as opposed to native which has just one pretender rebellion IF the player is in that rebellion.

  As for end game, one of the reasons I wanted Kaos political kit is now you have a mid game if you want from day 1.  I find with further testing I didn't need to give the king/queen quite so much money, their city generates plenty with lowering their taxes to "low" setting (which boosts trade and makes the people like you, which gradually lowers costs of items and increases profit while selling, etc).  Testing the end game is easier now.

  Night time will be more dangerous next month but it needs 2-3 more cycles of innovation.  I need to have magic resistances in, then religion and magic, then autonomous monsters, then a tweak of kingdom display of mapping ("world map" option in Kaos kit) to instead show magic regions.  Then some races / troops / monsters will be nocturnal and nights will be dangerous again - possibly leading to troops entrenching for the night, or really running to castles to sleep, or avoiding "battlegrounds" for fear of unclean things attracted to the many deaths.  Or for that matter unclean things attracted to places with epidemics - in which case there should be a countering ability for the player, instead of the current situation.  So I see a hard month at least of coding to make the nights more scary.

  I may also have to take some time to merge with Perisno .8; if so, the above paragraph might be more of a Halloween release.  I hope not.  I really wanted religions working before September.

  As for my own forum, I wanted a good video to show what makes this special, and that is being done now by someone with the right skills and hardware.
I also thought the v18.4 videos were excellent, but they were too long -- there were plenty of bugs, some innovation, but I think 10-15 minutes - tops 25 minutes is all the attention I can expect.  1 video that tours what makes this different, and if needed showing the old bugs either solved or made less in your face.

  Speaking of bugs, the one bug that persists is getting stuck in town after guild training or crafting (anything that kills time).  Go to the tavern, press ESC to save and exit the game and reload the game and time moves again, finishing whatever was queued up but not completed.  This doesn't happen every time, but sooner or later it happens.  There are doubtless other glitches, somewhere, but that's the one that has been with rigale for years.  It's difficult to find.  I suppose I could make all crafting and learning instant and remove all time killing, but that seems worse than the current system...

  - GS
 
Like i undrestand,  you intend to add beast enemys to game. Does it take alot to work to add beast companions also. Like quest or event obtaineble wolf, bear or what ever beat you intend to add.

Like something you meet in animal merchant in road he has Bear cub or wolf cub. And you can buy them feed them up and rise them loyality. And add them party, but they havemaybe some negative effects to party morale or opinion effects to some lord reletionship who accuse you in beast magic.
 
zincra said:
Like i undrestand,  you intend to add beast enemys to game. Does it take alot to work to add beast companions also. Like quest or event obtaineble wolf, bear or what ever beat you intend to add.

Like something you meet in animal merchant in road he has Bear cub or wolf cub. And you can buy them feed them up and rise them loyality. And add them party, but they havemaybe some negative effects to party morale or opinion effects to some lord reletionship who accuse you in beast magic.

  I would like this but it is difficult with the module system.  Companions need to be heroes, which are managed in memory differently.  I can make a few empty companions so you could have a pet dog or lizard or something, maybe a talking dragon for example, or a pet flying carpet or djinni.  But it is not so easy to make for example room for 100 pet dogs to join you and be companions.  It is possible to have 100 troops that happen to be dogs, but there are problems with this as well, as the game only supports a very small number of races at one time, and all the animations assume humans, or a horse, with no other animations so easy to put in place.

  Still, I'll think about djinnis, a talking dragon, etc -- "soon".

  - GS
 
I have a question for @gsanders about last released version of Phosphor 20r5: Are you planning to add the "Kingdom reborn" feature from the Kaos kit to the Phosphor mod in the future? The reason for this question is that I just felt sad when I read that you just ommited it from the actual version. I think it's a good feature and a realistic one too, that just make the map more alive and the endgame much more challenging. Also excuse me if this post doesn't goes here, I'm new on the forum actually  :oops:

By the way, thank you for yor awesome work gsanders, and I hope you have plans to add it back in the future  :grin:
 
Balystik said:
I have a question for @gsanders about last released version of Phosphor 20r5: Are you planning to add the "Kingdom reborn" feature from the Kaos kit to the Phosphor mod in the future? The reason for this question is that I just felt sad when I read that you just ommited it from the actual version. I think it's a good feature and a realistic one too, that just make the map more alive and the endgame much more challenging. Also excuse me if this post doesn't goes here, I'm new on the forum actually  :oops:

By the way, thank you for yor awesome work gsanders, and I hope you have plans to add it back in the future  :grin:

  Yes, the Kaos kit civil war and kingdom reborn features are nice in theory, the problem is Diplomacy only set aside space in the layout of faction slots for 10 factions, which Perisno uses all 10.  Once you activate civil war option, the number of factions becomes 20; with kingdom restore, the number of factions becomes 30.  But every action that involves a faction needs to be able t apply to all 30 factions, even if 20 of them are seldom used.  So for example diplomacy allocates 10 slots in memory for each faction to store relations with the other faction (one per other faction).  But now it needs 30 slots allocated; or the next 20 slots in memory get corrupted as they are overwritten in mid game, producing a storm of errors.  In fact that's what I saw happen last night so I pulled the update I planned.

  There are 3 places where diplomacy implicitly uses slots, one per faction, so every slot defined after that point has to be moved UP by 20+20+20 slots...
and if Perisno .8 adds giants or I add drow or goblins or something like this that's more movement of slots. 

  After the slots are jockeyed around I next have to map what kind of troops are tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 for reinforcements for these 20 new factions; the game
doesn't know who they are at first.  I have hundreds of lines of changes in initializing them, all of which I wouldn't have to do if I merged Kaos kit onto native, without diplomacy (notice there was little talk of Kaos kit AFTER diplomacy was merged).  These are the main issues.

  Next was titles: races complicate titles, because native detection of gender fails if you have more than tf_male and tf_female defined - once you add elves and dwarves, a new scheme needs to be done.  That was easy enough to work around, but then it gets worse: the method used to auto-rename your character in Kaos kit  gave everyone double titles - if I wanted say to rename player "Hector" into  "Prince Hector", I can build that string, assign it as the new name for trp_player, but the game engine, outside my script, renames this to  Prince Prince Hector.  Eventually I just dropped the titles for Prince/Princess and Baron/Baroness.  But strangely, King and Queen managed to survive, even though they seem to use the same schema, possibly because they become liege of the faction and handling changes.  I wasted a full week on titles and felt it was time better spent anywhere else.  I'd say that only is my single greatest dislike of Kaos kit - the titles came out strange.

    I'd like to see working civil war.  The kingdom restore is OK, but auto civil war is a greatly useful feature.
    These need much more integration time though, and may introduce yet more unexpected errors in late game, so need deeper testing.  I didn't see errors in the latest r5 until I had taken the game beyond 28 days... but those errors should not happen in the earlier "r5 tester" I released more than a week ago.

  - GS

 
gsanders said:
Balystik said:
I have a question for @gsanders about last released version of Phosphor 20r5: Are you planning to add the "Kingdom reborn" feature from the Kaos kit to the Phosphor mod in the future? The reason for this question is that I just felt sad when I read that you just ommited it from the actual version. I think it's a good feature and a realistic one too, that just make the map more alive and the endgame much more challenging. Also excuse me if this post doesn't goes here, I'm new on the forum actually  :oops:

By the way, thank you for yor awesome work gsanders, and I hope you have plans to add it back in the future  :grin:

  Yes, the Kaos kit civil war and kingdom reborn features are nice in theory, the problem is Diplomacy only set aside space in the layout of faction slots for 10 factions, which Perisno uses all 10.  Once you activate civil war option, the number of factions becomes 20; with kingdom restore, the number of factions becomes 30.  But every action that involves a faction needs to be able t apply to all 30 factions, even if 20 of them are seldom used.  So for example diplomacy allocates 10 slots in memory for each faction to store relations with the other faction (one per other faction).  But now it needs 30 slots allocated; or the next 20 slots in memory get corrupted as they are overwritten in mid game, producing a storm of errors.  In fact that's what I saw happen last night so I pulled the update I planned.

  There are 3 places where diplomacy implicitly uses slots, one per faction, so every slot defined after that point has to be moved UP by 20+20+20 slots...
and if Perisno .8 adds giants or I add drow or goblins or something like this that's more movement of slots. 

  After the slots are jockeyed around I next have to map what kind of troops are tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 for reinforcements for these 20 new factions; the game
doesn't know who they are at first.  I have hundreds of lines of changes in initializing them, all of which I wouldn't have to do if I merged Kaos kit onto native, without diplomacy (notice there was little talk of Kaos kit AFTER diplomacy was merged).  These are the main issues.

  Next was titles: races complicate titles, because native detection of gender fails if you have more than tf_male and tf_female defined - once you add elves and dwarves, a new scheme needs to be done.  That was easy enough to work around, but then it gets worse: the method used to auto-rename your character in Kaos kit  gave everyone double titles - if I wanted say to rename player "Hector" into  "Prince Hector", I can build that string, assign it as the new name for trp_player, but the game engine, outside my script, renames this to  Prince Prince Hector.  Eventually I just dropped the titles for Prince/Princess and Baron/Baroness.  But strangely, King and Queen managed to survive, even though they seem to use the same schema, possibly because they become liege of the faction and handling changes.  I wasted a full week on titles and felt it was time better spent anywhere else.  I'd say that only is my single greatest dislike of Kaos kit - the titles came out strange.

    I'd like to see working civil war.  The kingdom restore is OK, but auto civil war is a greatly useful feature.
    These need much more integration time though, and may introduce yet more unexpected errors in late game, so need deeper testing.  I didn't see errors in the latest r5 until I had taken the game beyond 28 days... but those errors should not happen in the earlier "r5 tester" I released more than a week ago.

  - GS

First of all, thank you for the quick response to my question.

Reading you just gives me an idea: The problem seems to be that the game engine treats the reborn faction as a new one, so... Is it possible to make it so main factions are never truly defeated and sometimes their lords respawn with armies so they can retake a castle and be "reborn" without using a faction slot? Just curious, because maybe Kaos kit perspective isn't the correct one for this feature. Just asking, because actually "A new dawn" mod implemented this kind of "reborning" feature damn well. But when I saw Perisno and your modification "Phosphor", I absolutely fall in love whit it missing just that feature from AND (so the player can never conquer all the map and just lazy-sit in his/her throne watching the empire forever = Game over). Civil war is of course another cool feature, but I thought some kind of "kingdom reborn" would be easily implemented before that awesome rebellion one. Just asking, because I must recognize I'm pretty ignorant here  :lol:
 
Religions system opens a large number of possibilities with a parallel metagame, both in terms of overhauling player choices
and finding ways to make the game harder.  My favorite challenge: imagine if you get no experience for killing, or lose experience for death,
and neither engage in slavery.  How to earn experience and reward for ethical behavior?  It suggests a need for flexible scripts.

  Or this:  a specific faith avoids alcohol and is vegetarian.  While untainted, they have some extra bonus.  Nevertheless, it will be challenging to
have sufficient drink, sufficient food, sufficient access to supplies.  But perhaps there are other ways to gain experience that don't exist yet.

  Or this:  magic, like firearms, isn't everyone's cup of tea.  It would be better to toggle it on and off to suit the player, or in my case what I prefer is
to have magic work only in the spirit world, a world entered during dreams.  Firearms do NOT work there, but magic does.  But use of magic draws problems;
as does death in the real world, or disease, or great injustice...  There may be more reasons to avoid certain acts than "I roleplay naughty or nice"...
it just might be a trouble attractor.

  Or my favorite:
    Your character isn't really immortal at all.  As the game progresses, karma can either help you dodge death or ... accidents happen more freely and with less a safety net.  Of course I should help with a succession ... but reincarnation as opposed to resurrection could be unfortunate, especially for the chronically wicked.

    So I see religion as, how to say it, 'a real game changer", that needs the world rebuilt from the bottom up.

  - GS


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4sh7GRykLgEYzk0dFRvd2N1VzA/view?usp=sharing

  this was a "white paper" I used to summarize my arguments as to what is magic, what is religion, and how to define magic resistance.
From this I have to make scripts to actually implement it... which is the hard part.


Yard1 said:
Very interesting. So magic affects the spirit, and the spirit affects the body? Could an example of an magical attack be influencing a sick person's mind, causing them to lose will to fight their illness and die, even if normally they would survive?

A:  this is a tradional magic attack, yes.  As would be for example filling Charles Manson's mind with a desire to perform an act that would be made infamous on the television news, and later the television news giving strength to the idea of doing something terrible in the past - a prophetic person sees the future, ergo the future touches the past.  Could Hitler resist a billion people hating him?  But he didn't try very hard to do the right thing, yes?  Was he touched as a baby?  Were his siblings harmed? Or what of Stalin, where the siblings were systematically killed?  Stalin tried to become a priest.  Magic exists, but as to what it really is, has not been defined.  It seems to have a component vector in the time domain, but that's meaningless in a fantasy video game, eh?

But wouldn't that force the player to be "good" and devout, for fear of negative effects? Or does that mean that the more evil a person is, the smaller their magic resistance, resulting in increased magical potential, but also requiring the mage to posses great willpower so that they won't be destroyed by that magical energy? Similarly, how do demon worshippers tie into that? Is that an example of anti-faith?

A.  Currently players are encouraged to be "bad", because the game *only* rewards killing, selling slaves, and looting the dead.  There is no chance to pay tribute, no experience reward for non-lethal solutions, no extra credit for capturing alive, no opportunity to change the dynamics for kingdoms.  A player "works" the "system", and is encouraged to do "evil" in the current system, with roleplay of any alternative generally interfering with their optimum progress.  I'd like to see the "system" reward good deeds, in a tangible way that can be seen in game.  As for dropping dead after being "knocked out" in battle, IF they fail a karma check, I'd say they were working the system plenty before this.  Maybe it's good to take a moment and consider their deeds.  Of course there needs to be fewer ways to wash karma/honor; at the moment honor can be farmed by just letting some captured troops/bandits/etc go.  And what of people who routinely farm relations with bandits to have them "like" their kingdom or village, which presumes commoner faction is completely expendable because they have no "soldiers" of the worth of bandits...

  But to address your questions:
  "the more evil a person are, the smaller their magic resistance, resulting in increased magical potential, but also requiring the mage to posses great willpower so that they won't be destroyed by that magical energy?"  Possibly.  They would have less magic resistance, and likely to weaken the resistance between the spirit world and the visible world.  In which case magic would be stronger in their vicinity.  They might attract unclean things to appear randomly in their battles or camp at night, and they may have interactions or attractions to predators or parasites emerging from battlegrounds (which are the fields of corpses immediately following a deadly fight, with possibly a few routed stragglers).


On topic of different religions - does that mean that Water focuses on maximizing magical reistance, while eg. Fire tries to find the balance between resistance and using magic to do good?
A.  Water dislikes magicians, whereas fire respects them.  Fire sees no problem with using magic to attack an unrighteous enemy, or to ask an ally to do the same (such as a Djinn).  Water would consider it an unclean act, but would pray for victory, heal on the battlefield with laying on of hands, remove fear,
strengthen one another, seek a pathfinding vision, pray for the location of water if moving in the desert, and pray to stun enemies - and those enemies would have a defense against such a prayer based in part on their karma, their level of fatigue, and their own type of faith.


Is magic inherently evil and faith inherently good, or are they just tools to be used in good or evil way?
A.  This gets to the root of definitions:  some things that we think are magical are really Divine, and some things we thought were Divine are pretty much Magical.  If Magick is placing something into a person's spirit in order to feed off their energy, in a viral way, we'd have to consider that evil in the purest sense.
But Magick and Divinity can be intermingled, such as the Martial Arts of a Shaolin priest, which have both magick and faith component vectors operating at the same time.  While we don't expect them to fly, we neither can comfortably explain some of the things we see them do -- or if you've never seen them in person (I have), then you'd believe it was some sort of trick or scam.  No, it exists - but WHY and HOW are somewhat unclear.  Perhaps a person who arrives as a skeptic never sees evidence other than what their skepticism allows, so that their "faith" is not disturbed.  This is a sense driven explanation of reality -- its all really a masquerade using MMO technology, but its much smoother than we think computers etc are capable of, even though in my own lifetime my personal computer, built on exactly $1350 USD budget in 1983 vs 2014, has changed in bandwidth by a factor of 64,000 times - both in terms of CPU MIPS, in memory bandwidth, in RAM size, in disk storage, in 3D graphics expressed as number of vertices per second or in terms of programmatic addressable resolution.
 
Implementation: would magicians enter the spirit world before battlefield and fight there, and then the effects of those fights would be transferend appropriately to the real world?
A.  This remains to be seen.  Magic would have much higher strength in the spirit world; it may be magic is possible, at reduced field intensity, outside the spirit world but near a battleground, graveyard, plague city, or other large event - or on an anti-holy day, such as Halloween.

What would be the position of magicians in different cultures? We know that Water shunnes magic, but would they be respected or denounces in other faiths? Or is that, once again, faith dependent?
A.  A great question.  Earth seems to accept magic, and for this reason Water somewhat dislikes or shuns earth, labelling them "pagan" and suggesting they are unclean.  Fire might also suggest the other faiths are unclean, although I suspect they respect Air.  Air accepts magic, when it is used for good purposes; Fire with some limits; each tends to have innate magic the others don't share.  No one faith has all forms of magic, except celestial, and they have all the limitations applied that normally inhibit one faith only, which prevents them from being overpowerful.  Air has different weaknesses than Fire, which are different than Water, which differ from Earth.  I need to make a matrix of who likes who, who hates who, and who is neutral to who...

  Earth              Air
          Celestial
  Fire                Water

  with Celestial having no dispute with anyone, believing they each struggle to explain the world from within their own limitations of perception
and without feeling some great sense of hubris or superiority over the others - as that too is a trap.  Celestial would seek to be meek, allowing God to be Great instead of themselves.

Sorry for so many questions - the concept you present is unique, and I am really excited to learn more about it. Not even in the terms of what's possible in game, but in the terms of pure concept, how you would make it without any game limitations.
  A.  It's a timely dialog as I next have to go from "theory" to implementation, and these are excellent questions -- which doubtless should be copied to dev log or "suggestions" to Phosphor.

Cheers
 
Thanks for answering! Couple more:

Does that mean that Phosphor's magic can't affect the physical world in ways your traditional fantasy magic can, eg. starting a fire, telekinesis, lighting and so on? Could a fire spell not cause true fire, but rather an illusion, tricking the mind and body to feel like it's on fire, when in reality it's not? Can magic only affect living beings?

Can one summon things from the spirit world (such as those battlefield predators) and control them? Are they real, or rather illusions?

If all religions come from one proto-religion, does that mean there is only one god, represented by many? What about the devil? Is that an anti-god, with demon worshiping as an anti-faith? Do god/gods actively intervene in the lives of mortals, or is that related to the karma system?

Do you have any other supernatural/magical beings planned, such as Djinn?

What would happen if one were to reject all religion - would he automatically become evil? What if he lived morally (of course that again brings us the question of what is moral and what is not)? Would that be possible? Or is lack of religion a religion in itself, only with different gods, explanations and practices?

Do you have any heresies, reformations and schisms planned, if not for now, later? What about the existing religions in Perisno lore - New Gods, Old Gods, Elven Goddess of The Fountain, Dragon religion, etc? Will those be adapted, rewritten or scratched and new ones made from the ground up?

On the more technical side, I don't know if you have played Sword of Damocles (M&B mod) - it also has religions, and while the mechanics are more "traditional" (no magic exists), it introduced "Faith troops" - when a Noble troop reached a high enough level of zeal (which was determined by buildings in towns and villages such as temples and shrines), they could upgrade to a new troop, which was unique and vastly different for every religion. Perhaps something similar could be implemented, as a way for player to get faith/magical troops?
 
Yard1 said:
Thanks for answering! Couple more:

Does that mean that Phosphor's magic can't affect the physical world in ways your traditional fantasy magic can, eg. starting a fire, telekinesis, lighting and so on? Could a fire spell not cause true fire, but rather an illusion, tricking the mind and body to feel like it's on fire, when in reality it's not?
Can magic only affect living beings?

A:  . in the spirit world lightning bolts use electricity, fireballs make fire, etc, and thus there needs to be a way to measure the effectiveness different armor has against these attacks.  In the not-spirit world, the damage is scaled DOWN and could still be amended based on time of day, proximity of specific things weakening the separation of the two nested worlds or layers-of-perception if you prefer that explanation.  I would tend to believe the first is difficult, the second is easy, and the statement magic can affect only living beings is "mostly" true.  I think weather and scene can change by some combination of divine or magic effects; we have the case of a prophet or avatar walking on water AND his apostle/disciple in one body of writings, and in not one but two others a mountain moved by faith alone.  How exactly those got accomplished is somewhat difficult to discern.  We are left to presume some effects can translate into the perception of our physical world, even if we presume most such effects are contained only within the spiritual world-layer.


Can one summon things from the spirit world (such as those battlefield predators) and control them? Are they real, or rather illusions?
A.  Briefly, and probably mostly at night, with them disappearing the next day.  Such things may appear also without neccessarily anyone controlling them, perhaps to prey on both sides.  There are many examples in literature of Jin existing unseen, seeing men, living and behaving as men, with time running backwards (such that dung thence became uneaten food) (see wiki "Jin").  Are they real?  Well... if they come from beyond the veil, return beyond the veil, and mostly are active in our sleep or lucid dream sessions, then I'd have to label that as "quasi-real", again deferring that waking reality is yet another substate of a (very long duration) lucid dream, from which you presumably awaken upon "death".  Worlds are then presented as a series of Matryoshka doll like "shells" of perception which confer the ability to change location, rule sets (can you fly? How do you know you're awake reading this? Can you see your fingerprints on your thumb?  and so on ... so many questions to ask). 

If all religions come from one proto-religion, does that mean there is only one god, represented by many?
A.  Some believe this.  I won't tell you what to believe.  As for writing, from my modder perspective there is but one true God but most of the faiths have access to a portion of powers - like colors of a rainbow, they are each distinct and a PART of the total.

What about the devil? Is that an anti-god, with demon worshiping as an anti-faith?
A:
It is possible the devil is merely a shadow where God does not easily penetrate, or a polar opposite of divinity.
  It is also possible the devil plays both sides, in order to sift us, and the true God is somewhat outside the simulation.
I would mention the fact that very good people exist suggests we aren't actually living in some sort of hell or were "left behind"; the world, as
presented to us, has both good and evil in great abundance, and we can travel the planet and sample some of each if we wish.
I would suggest the weakening of organized religion is evidence of an "anti-faith" successfully spreading, like a cancer,
in the meme state of our internet driven Gestalt, like bacteria growing on agar on a Petri plate.

Do god/gods actively intervene in the lives of mortals, or is that related to the karma system?
A. In game, I hope that's where you are asking, everything has to be with scripts.  There is a chance of a righteous person receiving divine aid, at least during
a spirit world fight, and an unrighteous person getting a visit by less principled predators, which might attack both sides, with a random likelihood adjusted by karma and need (in terms of battle ratio).  Since everything has to be controlled by scripts I'd guess the early revs wont have much happening and later revs could have increasingly sophisticated ways of helping.  The chance still has to be fairly small, or people would wander into fights just to spring some sort of special battle, thinking they will be saved from their own foolishness if they can just get a fight going that NEEDS a miracle.  Mmmm, maybe the more they fight the less likely they are to get help!  A true pacifist that avoids needless fights might get help on the one unavoidable fight... I'll have to consider ways to script what constitutes need and how to see if the person is after all aggressive -- although maybe their religion choice rewards some sort of punkiness (like fire, or sometimes water.)

Do you have any other supernatural/magical beings planned, such as Djinn?
A.
  Yes.  But first I'd like something small to be able to act independently of the player, such as war dogs or snakes or giant spiders or something.
I'd next like to see independent spell casters or priests able to activate effects on their own initiative, with a timer controlling the likelihood of the next effect,
so that these happen at staggered intervals across a large battle.  This would be the two conditions needed to allow a Jinn, or a dragon, or anything else noteworthy, to appear and be modeled in a useful manner.

What would happen if one were to reject all religion - would he automatically become evil? What if he lived morally (of course that again brings us the question of what is moral and what is not)? Would that be possible? Or is lack of religion a religion in itself, only with different gods, explanations and practices?
A.  This is a good question.  Here is where I guess I'd get burned as a heretic anyway: I believe traditional religion has been allowed to be burdened by doctrines of men in order to test our conscience.  It is one thing to stand up to tyranny from an outsider, without presumed authority, and denounce acts of barbarism that offend your inner sense of what you expect from the spirit of your faith.  It becomes quite a different thing to surrender your sense of active conscience and instead allow an Imam, a priest, a pastor, or for that matter some guru to tell you what is and is not your choice/vote in terms of outrage or passive acceptance.  If you wonder whether it is right to stone people, it bothers you deeply, but someone else says the scripture accepts it (which you didnt observe getting written and you simply trust is interpreted correctly, and has not since been overturned, updated, revised, or in any way overruled by newer authority) -- well, classical scriptures "accepted" slavery, codified how to treat your slaves, gave you rights (and responsibilities*) with regards to slaves, and so on.  Nevertheless a modern audience finds slavery repugnant (as well they are supposed to), in all its forms, and whosoever says look I can get away with this because an old book says so and I believe that book has never changed or been changed by men - well, this is why some people look to a spirit within instead of letting an outsider exercise THEIR vote, their choice, their test of right.
      But you asked in the game:
    In game, not choosing a religion puts you outside the mainstream of THAT faith, and potentially erodes the relationship with lords and ladies who feel strongly regarding their faith.  It is possible to be treated poorly as an atheist or apostate by other faiths, although a very righteous individual (from a test of karma) might nevertheless respond to a righteous atheist/agnostic/undeclared (based on karma test) due to each being close to "God", regardless of the outer mantle of stated religion.  It's possible to belong to a church and be outside its boundaries; its possible to be friendly to many faiths and seek to cultivate a relationship with the center.  In game terms, no one church is perfect -- each has schisms and factions; nobody is fond of the inquisition, certainly least of all God, whose name and reputation are damaged by their energetic efforts.  Not having a declared faith may make travel difficult in some places and easier in others.  I'll have to see just how much to tweak that to be perfect.  I'd still like to have caravans be able to cross borders without being accosted by religious police - but that makes it interesting, especially smuggling pilgrims between kingdoms  ; )


Do you have any heresies, reformations and schisms planned, if not for now, later?
A.  Yes I think those are neccessary; also one might choose a faith but not much obey their rules, in which case the player or npc ought to be labeled "the apostate" or something like this.  I should add a street begger that can audit your karma as well, both for color and sass.

What about the existing religions in Perisno lore - New Gods, Old Gods, Elven Goddess of The Fountain, Dragon religion, etc? Will those be adapted, rewritten or scratched and new ones made from the ground up?
A. Theyre on the cutting block -- I didn't make them, I didnt need them, they were placeholders to me, as is most of Perisno's color and lore.  The CODE
matters, the rest is eye candy.

On the more technical side, I don't know if you have played Sword of Damocles (M&B mod) - it also has religions, and while the mechanics are more "traditional" (no magic exists), it introduced "Faith troops" - when a Noble troop reached a high enough level of zeal (which was determined by buildings in towns and villages such as temples and shrines), they could upgrade to a new troop, which was unique and vastly different for every religion. Perhaps something similar could be implemented, as a way for player to get faith/magical troops?
A.  Yes.  I don't have Sword of Damocles code, but technically it is available upon request.  I have looked at the mod briefly.
  I like the idea of building temples and such, but as for faith troops I'd reckon these are casters or semi-casters with some sort of limited special abilities.
They should also be found in certain caravans, especially ones with "passengers".  I'd like to see caravans carrying not only cargo but a chance of people (townspeople, farmers, pilgrims, the odd VIP + bodyguards), perhaps with very honorable persons offered a quest to escort a caravan if they wish to or very dishonorable people a quest to assasinate/capture a VIP or pilgrims in the caravan.  So much more could be done if the ground rules allow some tension and some minor casting.  Can a person fly?  Code exists for that -- look at the deathcam for example.  What if you didnt have to die to use that, say while mounted on a flying carpet (that no doubt snickers like a horse from time to time with the current warband engine).
 
KonykSoldatyk said:
Computica said:
I tossed him the source code everyone so he is free to fully mod the game. Let me know if anyone else wants the source for the 2nd last release of SODW.
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,332942.msg7919380.html#msg7919380

  Made the request today.
  Specific interest is the religions, how temples are built, how faith troops are provided, etc.
 
  found this after hunting around:
  http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,311541.0.html
    which points to a working link for v3.92f    dated Sept 30 2011

  I also have SoD 4.1 for Mount & Blade        dated Summer 2009
      no idea where I got that from, maybe found it on a list kept in Russia or searching for "fantasy" mods on Nexus/Moddb

  It's still possible something newer exists, but if not its enough to look for what I was after and call it a day.
  I don't really need the latest version anyway, especially if its very private and personal.  It sounds like this came from a great deal
of struggle and its not like I want to steal everyone's baby and replace them with surrogate changelings.  I would like to sift for under-utilized gems
and have tried to give something back to each project I prospect in, although I havent done anything yet for Silverstag.  Maybe Windy is just too
"advanced", but sooner or later I may yet have a 'snippet that helps'.

====
  If I had unlimited time I'd remake a Silverstag + Rigale skeleton, but diplomacy doesnt merge well with Silverstag, and they'd need considerable effort to dis-entangle diplomacy from Rigale before merging.  It'd probably need a month to do right, and merging BACK some layers of Perisno art, troops, menus, while leaving behind diplomacy another 2 weeks.

  The value of that would be something closer to open source capable, but at the moment its too much time.  Plus I don't really see the value of discarding the existing code base, which mostly works, although it would make sense if looking to do more changes on Silverstag base.  Silverstag minus WSE would be interesting; but as I understand it the WSE avoided some kludges that would be needed, and messy, with normal Warband module system.  This was the primary reason so many Warband revisions happened with Viking Conquest -- so many WSE calls needed something similar, so new operations were added.
====

  Thanks Zincra, Konyk...  for asking and showing me where to look.

  - GS
 
Oldtimer said:
gsanders said:
Oldtimer said:
Hello Mr. Sanders,

could you remove the starting bandit fight and mission? By now they are an annoyance only.
If the starting bandit is left in, how abt. making him lootable?
Keep on the good work!

Rgds, Oldtimer

  It may be harder than it looks.  I'll look at it, as I always want to skip it also.
  the whole opening with the merchant and all this is time wasting indeed...

Hello Mr. Sanders,

the starting mission and bandit are removed in Warsword Conquest at least. Perhaps something to take a peek at.

Rgds, Oldtimer

  It's removed for King, Prince, Vassal starts in Phosphor.  I'm not exactly sure where it happened, just that it is removed.  :wink:
 
something I saw from a passer by that I don't want to forget:
========
  Considering how dependent they are on pikes, I don´t see why not give such weapons an overhead thrust and remove the swing attacks. I´ve seen spearmen/pikemen become a much more fearful force in the hands of the AI with just that adjustment (Gekokujo). And the animation is already in Warband.

Unlike overhead swing attacks, the overhead thrust cannot be stopped half-way by anyone staying behind the attacking troop, that alone helps a lot in tight formations. There is also the thing that, approaching a pike formation without a shield, means instant death, since it´s impossible to block both directions at once.

I must say, this would add a lot of punch to pikemen formations and it would remove the spacing requirement we are having right now.
========

  Yes this is doable and wont take much time at all.
 
gsanders said:
Oldtimer said:
gsanders said:
Oldtimer said:
Hello Mr. Sanders,

could you remove the starting bandit fight and mission? By now they are an annoyance only.
If the starting bandit is left in, how abt. making him lootable?
Keep on the good work!

Rgds, Oldtimer

  It may be harder than it looks.  I'll look at it, as I always want to skip it also.
  the whole opening with the merchant and all this is time wasting indeed...

Hello Mr. Sanders,

the starting mission and bandit are removed in Warsword Conquest at least. Perhaps something to take a peek at.

Rgds, Oldtimer

  It's removed for King, Prince, Vassal starts in Phosphor.  I'm not exactly sure where it happened, just that it is removed.  :wink:

Mr. Sanders,

in my setup the bandit is gone everywhere. A good thing.

Rgds, Oldtimer
 
I aim to please, someone.

  I'm doing 3 things at once today --
  1) getting minimal magic working for v21 series, which you saw. 
        I knew Vassal, Prince, and King starts skipped the starting bandit but had not paid attention to the others.  I'll look more carefully next time.
The bandit mission is in mission_triggers.  If it really is gone for good and the next brother quest happens to work to completion I may as well port that version over to v20 r7 series in 1-2 weeks.

  2) I found some missing pieces from Rigale that I had not put in Phosphor half a year ago, that might help me make settlements work next month.
The big issue for me was finding what looks like a piece of formations missing from Perisno .76 / Phosphor code, although it may be leftover from an attempt to install PBOD that failed, explaining why its not in my later stuff.  Seriously in debug mode.

  3) some exploits were found in Perisno .76 for the Rigale sprint (and rage should be -- both temporarily change player skills/attributes).  So I should put a test to prevent those effects from stacking several times by suddenly ending a battle before the effect wears off normally.

  This plus work has something for me...

EDIT: Saturday
  back merged simplest magic layer from v21
  but adding troop types with magic would break save games.  Maybe I issue two patches - one with magic and one where the mechanics are there but no one is using it until you buy the newer items in shops, and figure out how to use them.

  Solved a skins issue for undead & skeletons that was first reported in Perisno .76; I needed to make a dummy giant skin as a placeholder so undead loads correctly, now all is working.

  I will work a little more on it tonight and either issue a patch late tonight or tomorrow at lunch time, depending on progress.  There is still a new bug to chase down with patrols of all kingdoms spawning next to the player, which was not there yesterday, so I'll look through game_menus, dialogs, and scripts again.

 
Oldtimer said:
Mr. Sanders,

before I forget, bandit`s gone but the merchant and his mission are still available. Also a good thing.

Rgds, Oldtimer

  I finally found where this is and adjusted it so it's the new norm - the first fight is gone, and even if you somehow get into it,
Gosh strikes the bandit down for you, really fast, and fast forwards the talk context to waste less of (my testing) time, for all character backgrounds.  You can still talk to the merchant if you wish, and a formerly cheat only option to fast forward through ALL of his dialogs and quests to get the exp and gold is now a dialog option.  So today made some progress in Phosphor v21 r5 (the next update planned).  Every time I look at it the list of things that need resolving grows, almost as fast asd my list of things solved (written for change log purposes).

  Oh!  Have I made it clear yet Pho v21 r5 is NOT a "closed beta"?  I'll put it for anyone to download.  The only "closed" aspect is it isn't OSP or supplied with source, as it is a Perisno .8 submod.  Giants and Drow will be playable races for player, this much got done today.

  - GS
 
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