[Suggestion]Power meter -of sorts.

[ares007]

In a nutshell: The longer you press the button, the more powerful the attack is going to be.

Held-down swings already do more damage.

The idea is to make this a larger part of gameplay.

Great idea! I support it, it would really change the gameplay into a good gameplay without spamming (Hopefully). Altough, I don't know if they're really going to implent something like this... But i hope it!

I'm not so optimistic. Instead of spam killing you with two blows, they'll slowly spam kill you with many.

it could be so that only 3 or 4 attacks may be executed in a row after which there is a pause of perhaps one second before another attack may be initiated (blocks and parries may still be used during this time).

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I support an idea like this. I would love an animation to be tied to it so that as you hold LMB, the weapon gradually winds back or something.

You're kidding.

 

[ares007]

I support an idea like this. I would love an animation to be tied to it so that as you hold LMB, the weapon gradually winds back or something.

You're kidding.

I don't want a 5 second wind-up. Something just a little longer than what is already present. Perhaps 1 second.

The rationale is that a more powerful attack in real life is generally more telegraphed and easier to see coming.

It would increase the depth of gameplay and give greater variety in strategy. I know it's not the most realistic thing in the world, but I think with a good enough animation representation, it would work for gameplay.

 

[Nosfe]

I think it could take the natural feeling of the melee combat away but it's worth a try. The current system punishes you for blocking an attack as you get immediatly hit by another one without the chance to counter attack. Especially in the latest patch, I suspect weapons deal full damage even if it's the beginning of the attack animation. Not to mention the dreaded instant-kill thrusts.

So although it may come with risks, this idea has the potential to add depth to melee combat. It definetly needs to be implemented.

 

[PsykoOps]

One great positivite thing to come out of a such system would be that in tight spaces you could still use big weapons. You wouldn't be able to hold the LMB and fully chamber your weapon but you could do quick slashes and stuff without the worry of the attack being cancelled. This sounds like a nice idea. Would it work so that when you start the LMB the animation to chamber starts and you release the button the attack animation starts even if the weapon is like 40% chambered? That's how I see it at least.

 

[Berserker Pride]

I dislike the idea.  It seems so fake to charge-up an attack.  IRL once the attack is chambered you are at full potential damage.  Holding an attack in chamber longer doesn't make an attack stronger and shouldn't in warband.  The current weaker unchambered attacks and stronger chambered attacks is perfect.

 

[ares007]

I dislike the idea.  It seems so fake to charge-up an attack.  IRL once the attack is chambered you are at full potential damage.  Holding an attack in chamber longer doesn't make an attack stronger and shouldn't in warband.  The current weaker unchambered attacks and stronger chambered attacks is perfect.

I don't think you understand something about realism in Warband. It is impossible to make Warband totally realistic. We need to make artificial simulations of realistic aspects.

This is an artificial simulation of the fact that in real life, a maximum power stroke is more telegraphed and obvious to the defender.

And we are not talking about holding LMB five seconds to make your character start glowing and unleash a super chi strike. We're (at least I am) just talking about the weapon continuing to wind up for an additional second (or possibly even something like 0.7 seconds) with an animation that actually continues to take the weapon back. This would also be tied to block-crush/block-stun.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

In a nutshell: The longer you press the button, the more powerful the attack is going to be.

That doesn't make much sense why that should be .

 

[ares007]

In a nutshell: The longer you press the button, the more powerful the attack is going to be.

That doesn't make much sense why that should be .

watch the animation in his signature please: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1406

 

[Berserker Pride]

Even it was a one second warmup charge I still wouldn't like that idea.  I would rather see specific strong attacks or weak attacks using different animations for each.  Or make the attack animation different if you attacked out of chamber.  Would seem much more natural.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

In a nutshell: The longer you press the button, the more powerful the attack is going to be.

That doesn't make much sense why that should be .

隐藏

I don't think you got my meaning: Why would holding an attack like that make it do more damage?

 

[ares007]

Even it was a one second warmup charge I still wouldn't like that idea.  I would rather see specific strong attacks or weak attacks using different animations for each.  Or make the attack animation different if you attacked out of chamber.  Would seem much more natural.

That's not a bad idea. I would be willing to try either way.

I don't think you got my meaning: Why would holding an attack like that make it do more damage?

I already explained.

It wouldn't make it do more damage realistically. It is simply an artificial simulation of the fact that maximum power strikes are more telegraphed and obvious to the defender.

 

[sadnhappy]

I dislike the idea.  It seems so fake to charge-up an attack.  IRL once the attack is chambered you are at full potential damage.  Holding an attack in chamber longer doesn't make an attack stronger and shouldn't in warband.  The current weaker unchambered attacks and stronger chambered attacks is perfect.

I think you kinda got it wrong. You can't go over the meter / over the animation. I'm wasn't talking about 'holding the attack in chamber longer', when the animation is at it's far end (like the one that now means chambering a strike, meaning that the animation is at halt as you are pressing the LMB) it will deal the max damage and not any bonus damage the longer you hold it. I'm talking about releasing the LMB before the animation/chamber is at the full end of it's animation. The meter is ranged from 0% to 100%, meaning that 0% is the stale-state (no LMB pressed at all) and 100% is the full, chambered state (like now when you keep holding the button). The idea is add a possibility to launch quick attacks mid-animation, before the animation reaches it's far end and make better use of different weapons. Read the OP again if you didn't get the idea the first time.

 

[seanparkerfilms]

It's a really, really good idea. I'm in full support of it and hope it finds its way into a future patch, so we can all at least playtest this potentially revolutionary idea instead of just nitpicking its theoretical shortcomings. As it has been mentioned, there is already somewhat of a "the longer you hold down the button, the more damage" system here already, and by utilizing this power meter idea, it could become a much more viable method of combat strategy.

One thing. I didn't see this in the original post, so how long were you thinking it would take for the power meter to fully charge (I think if it took much more than a couple seconds it might get a little out of hand for most weapons)? Here's an idea: the rate that the power meter fills could vary from weapon to weapon. So maybe a scmitar or a dagger (if we ever get those in Warband) has a quicker-filling power meter that caps off sooner than say, a 2H axe. So it would be faster to pull off a fully-powered attack with a fast/small weapon, but it also wouldn't have quite as much of a damage bonus that the big weapons would at full power attack (maybe the power meter bonus would be something akin to releasing a halfway or 3/4-powered two handed attack for that). I'd be happy to try and restate that if that didn't make any sense.

It could get pretty deep, with various tiers/upgrades of weapons having variation in the power attack rates, perhaps with only subtle differences within similar weapon classes (it could all be tied to weapon weight, maybe? That sounds like a straightforward system) -- anyway, that's my contribution to the idea pool, hope this helps in some fashion.

 

[Urist]

Holding an attack now does NOT do more damage
at the moment. It's a myth.
Test it in the tutorials or single player.
Maybe it effects stun but I doubt that.

 

[seanparkerfilms]

Really? Even in 1.011 (non-Warband)? I could've sworn there was a bit of a speed bonus when you "charged up" an attack. Maybe I'm delusional?

Either way, whether or not that currently exists in the game doesn't change my belief that the idea deserves to be included in some form.

 

[sadnhappy]

It's a really, really good idea. I'm in full support of it and hope it finds its way into a future patch, so we can all at least playtest this potentially revolutionary idea instead of just nitpicking its theoretical shortcomings. As it has been mentioned, there is already somewhat of a "the longer you hold down the button, the more damage" system here already, and by utilizing this power meter idea, it could become a much more viable method of combat strategy.

Thank you for the good post you made.

One thing. I didn't see this in the original post, so how long were you thinking it would take for the power meter to fully charge (I think if it took much more than a couple seconds it might get a little out of hand for most weapons)? Here's an idea: the rate that the power meter fills could vary from weapon to weapon. So maybe a scmitar or a dagger (if we ever get those in Warband) has a quicker-filling power meter that caps off sooner than say, a 2H axe. So it would be faster to pull off a fully-powered attack with a fast/small weapon, but it also wouldn't have quite as much of a damage bonus that the big weapons would at full power attack (maybe the power meter bonus would be something akin to releasing a halfway or 3/4-powered two handed attack for that). I'd be happy to try and restate that if that didn't make any sense.

I bolded the part: I actually edited and discussed this one too and said that light weapons like swords, blades and such, the quick 1H weapons and very light 2H weps would have a faster meter, meaning that you wouldn't have to press them that much to get the meter to the fullest. On the other hand heavy, big weapons would have a slower meter, meaning that you would need to hold them a little more to get them to the full potential, the max. damage. I'm not talking about 4-5 seconds but this is a thing that, if implemented, we would have to test out. I don't want to drasticly devolve the combat or lower the speed but I'd imagine that with cutting, slashing weapons the meter would go to the full in a ½/1-1/½sec or so, and with the heavier weapons it would take a bit longer, ranging from 2-3s (?).. We would actually have to test, test and test this feature and suggest the correct meter range for every weapon. Possibly it could be tied automaticly into the speed setting of the weapon: The faster the weapon is by default in the inventary screen, the faster the meter would go to the full.

It could get pretty deep, with various tiers/upgrades of weapons having variation in the power attack rates, perhaps with only subtle differences within similar weapon classes (it could all be tied to weapon weight, maybe? That sounds like a straightforward system) -- anyway, that's my contribution to the idea pool, hope this helps in some fashion.

As I suggested earlier in the post that the meter speed would be tied to the speed of the weapon in the inventory, the weight could be tied to the potential knockdown blow / staggering the enemy feature that I intended for the 2H, meaning that weapons that weight a lot, unleashed when the meter is at full, would damage shields a lot more / have the possibility to knockdown opponents or atleast stagger them. Let's say that when attacking with a 2H hammer, when the meter is at 65% the strike would stagger the enemy just a little bit. When the meter is at full 100%, it would have the possibility to knockdown the opponent even with a shield and/or deal a lot more damage into the shield. This 100% attack would also somewhat go trough 1H blocks without a shield, obviously.

--
I have a day off and plan to go shopping something from the sales but when I came back, I'll provide screenshots of this feature just to make it clear for everyone what I mean by this.

 

[Urist]

In native there is a charge up bonus of like 25% to damage.
But there is none in Warband.

 

[seanparkerfilms]

Great. That all sounds really, really great. I agree with your idea of using weapon weight to determine knockdown (and weapon speed to determine power meter speed). Sure hope we can test this someday...

In native there is a charge up bonus of like 25% to damage.
But there is none in Warband.

Thanks for clearing that up. Wonder why it's been changed...

 

[kingofnoobia]

Even though the OP suggested that a charged hit from a heavy twohander would crush a block, I still think this would slightly underpower twohanders. Even with this combat speed it's not too hard to block/parry a weapon with, say, 90 speed. If someone would use fast attacks with such a weapon vs me, I'd block and counter. If he charges his attack, I'd just do some swift cut to interrupt him. The problem would be that he has to charge his attacks, otherwise his axe wouldn't even be much more powerful that my sword.

Anyway, this might work well if the bar would fill very quickly. For a 1h sword or axe, it would at max take a second to fill the bar. For a 2h axe, at max 2 seconds, but 1.5 would be better imo.

For feinting: I agree that a feint shouldn't completely empty the bar, but consecutive feints should. Feint one would drain a rather small amount, say 20% (perhaps this looks like much, but the bar would start refilling 0.2 seconds afterward), feint two substantially more (33%) and feint three a lot more (50%). The percentages I gave as example aren't fixed values, just to give you an idea. They would also depend on the weight/damage/speed stat of a weapon.

Not sure whether this is a good idea, but certainly worth a try. If there is going to be a .66x, I'd prefer to first see the current bugs (for me mainly instastab and parry unreliability) to be fixed (though indeed, instastab would actually be fixed by this system ).

It would perhaps work better if combined with Ares' running and gunning suggestion here: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=89026.new#new

I made a post in it that might also complement this system quite well: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,89026.msg2298973.html#msg2298973