Suggestion of skill system

[FlowDream]

Hello everyone, there is lots of discusstion of bannerlord's new skill system.see
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-think-about-the-new-new-skill-system.397740/
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-grindfest-yes-even-more-than-warband.400062/
Players have difference option of this new system. I hope we can concentrated them and let taleworlds know our suggestion. So please write down your suggestion below.

 

[FlowDream]

As to me, my suggestion are:
1. Each skill should be unlimited.
2. Skills should be upgrade faster.

 

[Lord Earl]

I really dislike the strange perks you unlock. Choosing between +3% HP or +3% damage, or for some reason getting good with a twohanded sword makes you a better administrator of your fief. I figure perks should be limited to major traits which are logical.

I especially hate one of the 2h-weapon traits, where it's something like a +2% speed boost if you use a 2-handed weapon with 100 speed or more, or a +2% strength bonus when using a weapon with 85 speed or less, so long as it's Friday and you are wearing your lucky socks while using it....

 

[neppy]

Definietly skill must progress faster especially past 60
and perk should be more complex and more effective for high level one

 

[Pijus]

1. Skills should be uncapped
2. Focus points/attributes continue to increase learning speed.
3. Give attributes each level (would increase lvl'ing speed which is currently a problem).
4. Give some skill points to spend each level. Like warband combat skills, this is especially needed for companions since they can't do the tasks with 0 skills. Give like ~15 per level and like warband when you reach ~200 skill those 15 extra only increase it to 203 or something.

 

[Archonsod]

Ditch the caps, they're pointless and tend to skew towards grind rather than gameplay. Once the aging mechanic is implemented they'll also be somewhat redundant. Rather just apply a flat malus to skill gain once skills reach certain thresholds (i.e. skills over 100 progress at 75% the rate of those below, half as fast once you hit 150 and only 25% beyond that).
Rather than a cap, have the attribute modify the speed of skill gain for the associated skill - having 10 CTR means my ranged skills rise at roughly twice the speed as they would at zero CTR.
Change how focus points work. Probably better to allow a player to nominate one 'focus skill' in each category that either provides a boost to gain in that specific skill, or reduces the penalty to skill gain at higher levels of that skill. Rather than focus points level up provides perk points the player can use to activate any perk they've hit the requisite skill requirement for.

Perk wise a rework would help. At present there's a few too many minor buffs ('increase thing by 3%!') and not so many new toys, and while the minor buffs have their place they're not as exciting as being given something new to play with, even if it's just an extra inventory slot for quivers or the like. Also a bit more thought into the mutually exclusive perks; the entire point of having them should be to force me to have to agonise over which particular perk I really want. At present there's a few too many where the choice is effectively a no-brainer; to take the first such perk in the bow skill for example I can either boost the number of arrows I get when starting a battle on foot, or boost them when starting a battle mounted. That's not really a decision I have to put much thought into given I've already determined whether I'll be a horse or foot archer by whether I'm focusing on athletics or riding and it's unlikely I'm going to switch between the two willingly. Shift them out instead to the riding/athletic skills and make it mutually exclusive with something related to melee combat so I'm forced to consider whether I want to boost my main or secondary skill (or indeed make that secondary skill viable to begin with). Replace the perk in the bow skill with something useful whether you're on horseback or not - say holding the reticule closed longer versus drawing the bow faster - so I have to think about it rather than just picking whichever matches my play style.

 

[Mabons]

My issues:

• Some perks are useless or small in impact
• I don't like having to choose between the ones that actually do impact
• The speed at which you level is unbelievably slow
• As Archonsod says above, you should level fast at the start and it should start to taper off at the end, simulating you learning less and less as you master the craft
• I'd like to see the attributes and focus points do more than just increase learning, maybe they should also give a flat 10 skill points to their bound skills/skill of choice.
• The learning limit seems to be another strange one as I recall people saying you can't even get it to the end of the bar to unlock some of the higher end perks

I do like the idea of having to "do" the skill to level it up, which theoretically means that you can max out your character by just doing things from 0(5) skill.

 

[Tankbusta]

Specifically, Nerf Athletics, I've gotten it up to over 150 and I can Keep up with my low tier Cav on foot. It's literally ridiculous how much speed it gives you. in the event I ever need to run away to save my skin, I shouldn't be able to almost outrun Cavalry. Maybe make it more HP focused, or more Weight-Ignoring focus, but dear god please remove the speed buff per level.

 

[Draa Gul]

Perhaps level ups should be tied to a general XP score that you gain from killing foes, winning battles, training (passive from the Leadership skilled companion / main character with a higher level), doing quests, and generally being successful (trading for a profit, etc. etc.).

Those level ups give you attribute points and focus points as they do right now.

The skill points are gained by actually applying the skill.

If we separate the level ups and the skill points from each other, then we would erase the strange situation of "If I want to raise my skill cap in X skill, I have level up. In order to get another level up, I have to gain more skill points, so I need to use skills I do not want to use / learn." In my opinion that would make the current system much easier to use, because we would get more focus points and attribute points to pump into the skills we actually want to use, without having to worry about acquiring tons of skills elsewhere to get the level up in the first place.

 

[Sketchyad]

Remove the capped skillpoint.

 

[croncobson]

+1

 

[Sketchyad]

Bumping to top

 

[pucosc202]

Transferring this from the thread I started. Thanks to Sketchyad for pointing out this thread (didn’t notice it when I searched).

1. Remove the cap on skills for exceeding the limit allowed by focus points and attributes. Instead, make skills like Warband, where it becomes incrementally harder to learn as skill level increases. The “reality” behind this is that it is generally easier to learn the basics of a skill than it is to master it. The mechanic for this should be the existing skill multiplier. It should begin quite high and then slowly decline as skill level increases.

2. Award attribute points at every level. The role of attribute points are to add a small buff to the skill multiplier for every skill controlled by that attribute. The logic behind this is that if a character is high in “vigor” (i.e. is physically strong) then their raw capacity to learn an unfamiliar weapon is just naturally higher than someone who is weaker.

3. The player should begin with zero focus points and earn them every 3-4 levels. The role of the focus point is to add a large buff to an individual skill multiplier to signify that the character is putting emphasis on learning that particular skill

4. Focus points can be re-allocated either at will or after a cool-down (say 30 days) for both the player and companions. This would allow the player to rapidly gain a perk or ability they want (for example, the ability to ride a high-tier horse or an extra HP perk) without marrying them to a skill line for the rest of the character’s life. It would also allow the player to shape their companion’s skill sets to a certain degree.

Overall, this system allows attributes and focus points to serve the same role as Weapon Master did in Warband, making it easier and faster to learn skills especially as the player began to encounter the point of diminishing returns on skill increases.

 

[Lord Earl]

Focus points need to be able to be reshuffled, honestly... I have no idea where to put mine, since the systems are not well explained, and we don't have companions like Jeremeus anymore to take care of medical problems I found out.

 

[Draa Gul]

and we don't have companions like Jeremeus anymore to take care of medical problems I found out.

That's not true. There ARE medical companions. I have found one in my last playthrough. There are scout companions, too.

 

[Lord Earl]

But the companions are randomized... you mightn't get any medical companions. Or do they always make sure to have a set with one of each kind?

 

[Frost_]

I really like the concept of new system, but it totally broken right now.
The problem that i faced with is hard cap. So, i have character with 3-4-3-3-4-3 attribute points at 11 lvl and 23 focus points distrubuted.
The problem - i will not be able to get ANY of 275 talent. At lvl 24 my character should stop lvling if I calcualted all right.

隐藏: Some math here:

I made google docs table:

M&B 2 Lvling

Лист1 lvl,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19 sp to lvl up,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55,60,65,70,75,80,85,90,95 Learning Limit for AP +,30,30,30,30,30,30 Learning Limit for FP +,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30 Learning Limit for AP,360,360,360,390,390,390,420

docs.google.com

For each AP you can get 10*3=30 Learning limit.
For each FP you can get 30 Learning limit.
First AP gives zero Learning Limit.
You start with lvl 1 and need 5 sp more for each lvl to lvl up. (10 fro 3 lvl, 15 for 4...) - if nothing changes on higher levels.
I started with 2-4-3-2-4-3 AP character. Which gives 1*30+3*30+2*30+1*30+3*30+2*30=360 Learning Limit in total for AP.
You get 12 FP for creation and 1 FP at start, which gives you 13*30=390 Learning Limit for FP.
When you create character you get 210 (5 in each skill plus 120 for history choises) skill points already learned but you get no lvls from them.
Seems like i did little mistake for 30 skill points somewhere - cant find but main idea shoud be right.
So at lvl 24 my character should have 1440 Learning Limit in total, but to lvl up it needs 1500 skill points.
From this 24 lvls I can get only 7 AP in addition to what i had on start. So highest attribute i could get is 7+4=11.

To get to lvl 275 talent you need Learning Limit at 280 for that skill.
5 Focus Points gives you only 150 Learning Limit. So you need 280-150=130 learning limit from attributes. Or 14 points in corresponding attribute.
So my character wasn't able to get any of lvl 275 talets from the start. Game over %) The only way to get one of those is to create character with at least 7 points in corresponding attribute and spend all additional AP only in that stat. (It is possible to start with 8 AP in one stat character, but you still only limited to focus on skills that are connected to one attribute). And if you want to max two skills from different attributes? Not possible!

So, main problems i want to point:
- Lots of talents like +3% to speed/damage? We get speed and damage from leveling skill, talets should be more interesting.
- You have to create "focused" character with at least 7 AP and spend all additional AP in that stat to be able to get lvl 275 talent. Thats not abvoius at start.
- You can't focus on two skills from different attributes. Even with 8 AP start, you will have only 1 free AP for other stats. (If my math about max lvl is right).
- Also if you want to focus only on One Handed, you still "waste" your learning limit from AP for 2H and Polearms. It is more frustrating when you try to focus on Steward, without Medicine and Engeneering for example.
- As Clan Leader you probably want to focus on social (leadership/trade) as you can assign Quartermaster, Surgeon, Engeneer and Scout roles to your companions. You still be able to get 160 skill in martial skills. Or you shoul focus on battle skills and stuck on 160 +- with other skills.
- "Legendary Smith" talent? rly?) At 24 lvl I could only be able to have 290 Learning Limit, 300 at lvl 25. If i put all AP into endurance - which is not best choice. Probably it should start work from 275 lvl smithing?
- You will be able to get only as high as 160 skill on other skills (5 FP + 2 AP) if you want to focus on one skill.
- Skill training inflation. Train skill from 200 to 201 means same to your lvl up as to train other skill from 5 to 6.

So, my suggestions:
- As it was mentioned many times, system need some tunes in training speed of some skills and total reballance in perks.
- Remove Learning Limit from attribute points. Attribute points should give you better skill learning speed plus passive bonuses (I really like ideas about stats in quote below). It feels more natural - more strong or agile learns faster with melee or ranged skills.
- Remove learning speed from focus points. Each FP shoud give +60 learning limit. So at 5 FP you get 300 learning limit. But you need to think about how mich FP will be availible to character at max lvl if it would be hard capped.
- Skill training inflation. Game forces you to lvl skillls that are low, because it's easier and you need quantity, not quality to lvl up. I like how somewhat similar system realized at Tyranny. Character has XP there. When you lvl up your skill, you get part of XP for that lvl of skill added to your character XP. So to lvl high lvl skills is as profitable as low lvl skills. Also you can reward player with XP for quests/battles in addition to XP from skill ups.
- After this changes some tunes should be done at FP availible to prevent creating ultimate characters. It is 18 skills in game and to be able max 3-5 of them looks ok. But I want to have choice what to max and be able to do that, not limited to skills in one attribute tree.

I really like this suggestions about Attribute stats:

A really easy fix for most of the issue here could be that each level rewards both an attribute and a focus point, and that each attribute point should lead to a general increase in addition to faster learning speed:

• Vigor: More HP and a small general increase to all meele speed and damage
• Control: A small increse to all ranged accuracy and damage
• Endurance: More Smithing stamina, and a small increse to running and riding
• Cunning: a small increase to all connected skills
• Social: a small increase to all connected skills, and a higher success chance on Barter and persuasion
• Intelligence: Faster learning across the board for all skills, even those connected to another attribute and a small increase to all connected skills.

I realise that this is a relatively minor change, as it simply means that attribute points -in addition to a minor special property but without the learning limit increase- do the same as focus points do, but for all skills connected to them instead of just one, but that alone would already remove quite a few of the current issues, and speed the grind up tremendeously.