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[suggestion] New 'entry level' heavy horse.

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PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
Having played on the zombie server as swadian cavalry against nords I noticed how only a handfull had bought warhorses or chargers. Even though we were charging right into nord lines. I myself actually started with a courser and the only real disadvantage was that it was more prone to rear. I had much better success with a warhorse and came to the conclusion that something has to be done so horses have their own distinct roles to fullfill. There has been threads about this before but not recently so I'm refreshing this topic.
One solution to the problem of having the light unarmored horses doing the job that normally would belong to heavy cav might be to have one horse with 'heavy' armor but still cheap. Maybe a hunter that has head and chest armor only that would add armor and negate the headshot bonus. The idea is that saddle horse should be the free crappy one that you would most likely use only to get to some place. Courser would be the lightning fast surprise attack horse but still very vournable and a hunter would be light cav. Warhorses and chargers would then fill the heavy cavalry role and as such should be more tempting choice for the players.
If you have any ideas please post, we need to get this fixed.
 

Halcyon

Sergeant Knight
Good suggestion! there definitely need to be more variety and a larger difference between horses. Besides this there is also something else that should be done even though its mostly aesthetic.

We all know that horses are not always the same color. Currently in warband they use color to differentiate between types of horses which is ok. But when khergits come on most people go with the free steppe horse and its kind of silly to see all these white/greyish horses swarm people (cool too looks like a white army or something).

My suggestion is add different colors to the types of horse, make them more varied instead of one type one color.

In order to tell which horse is which, there could be instead, different sized horses based on type, or different saddles.
 

CtrlAltDe1337

Sergeant Knight
M&BWB
I just want to see the charge bonus on heavy horses turned up and make them less prone to rear.  That way you could wade through a formation several men deep on a warhorse, which would make it worth the 1200 denars you pay for it.  Right now, the Courser dominates horse vs horse combat, and the heavier horses don't have enough advantage to make it worth using them unless you are fighting a purely infantry-based enemy.  And even then, the courser's superior speed makes it good for evading arrows/bolts.
 

Seawied86

Sergeant Knight
Halcyon said:
Good suggestion! there definitely need to be more variety and a larger difference between horses. Besides this there is also something else that should be done even though its mostly aesthetic.

We all know that horses are not always the same color. Currently in warband they use color to differentiate between types of horses which is ok. But when khergits come on most people go with the free steppe horse and its kind of silly to see all these white/greyish horses swarm people (cool too looks like a white army or something).

My suggestion is add different colors to the types of horse, make them more varied instead of one type one color.

In order to tell which horse is which, there could be instead, different sized horses based on type, or different saddles.


this is a great suggestion
 

Wolfang

Baron
Want more horses  :shock:
Don't think the Horse system is truly well worked out because everyone starts off by buying courser, then the brown one, and then the round ends...
 

Alhanalem

Sergeant
WBWF&S
Having played on the zombie server as swadian cavalry against nords I noticed how only a handfull had bought warhorses or chargers.
That's because they're both expensive and terrible currently. There is no reason to buy one even if you have tons of gold.
 

Beaver

Count
M&BWBWF&SNW
Alhanalem said:
Having played on the zombie server as swadian cavalry against nords I noticed how only a handfull had bought warhorses or chargers.
That's because they're both expensive and terrible currently. There is no reason to buy one even if you have tons of gold.
Yes, exactly. And that need to change. Warhorses, and especially Chargers, are should be the heaviest and most powerful horses on the battlefield. They should always be what you aim for unless you're playing skirmish cavalry/light lancer. Now the Courser fills all horse roles and it's the only horse you need really. They are the ideal choice for lancers, skirmishers as well as charge cavalry... They are also the best in cavalry vs cavalry battles. It is possible to outmaneuver a courser with a steppe horse, but it certainly isn't easy. But don't nerf the courser, but make the heavier horses better/different to make them a viable choice.
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
Well this is the part where I disagree. I think the heavy horses are great. The reason why noone has reason to buy them is that the unarmored horses are too good. And to add the idea that it's the speed of the horses that makes the difference, yeah maybe but you very well can't have fully armored horses that are as fast or faster than their unarmored counterparts.
 

Beaver

Count
M&BWBWF&SNW
PsykoOps said:
And to add the idea that it's the speed of the horses that makes the difference, yeah maybe but you very well can't have fully armored horses that are as fast or faster than their unarmored counterparts.
I never said that. Where in my post does it say that "it's the speed of the horses makes the difference"? No, I only said that the courser is by far the best horse (imo).
"But don't nerf the courser, but make the heavier horses better/different to make them a viable choice" does not say anything about increasing the speed of the armoured horses to make them as fast or faster than the unarmoured horses, does it? No, it means that the heavier horses need to be made better and/or different horses should be made more different from each other.

My main point is to make different horses more different, not to make them more similar. Coursers should be faster and everything, but they shouldn't be a viable option to the warhorse when it comes to charging infantry.

I want to make the horses more different, heavier horses better. You wish to nerf the lighter horses (?). Basically we have the same view on the issue, but different ideas on how to solve it.
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
I never said you said it. It's been on many threads the main complaint.

[Edit to add] Yeah the lighter horses need a serious nerf on armor and they need to cost less. Also heavier ones should be cheaper and have an entry level choice.
Ideally:

Armored horses = anti infantry.
Coursers: sneak attack against separated and unsuspecting enemies and anti-cav.
Hunters: Against lightly armed/armored infantry such as archers.
Saddle horses: If you lose all your money or just need a ride to some place.

This is just ideally, of course sometimes a guy on a saddle horse will lance coursers etc. This would also make it more important for your own light cavalry protecting the heavy ones against enemy cav.

[Edit to add again] I submit that video as evidence of my points  :lol:
 

A_Mustang

Baron
WBM&BVC
Seawied86 said:
I'm in favor of giving the saddle horse a nerf
I want speed and armor (not that there is much of it) reduced. I dislike the fact they outrun hunters, which are real warhorses, compared to the farmer's mount that is a saddle horse.
 

Beaver

Count
M&BWBWF&SNW
PsykoOps said:
I never said you said it. It's been on many threads the main complaint.

[Edit to add] Yeah the lighter horses need a serious nerf on armor and they need to cost less. Also heavier ones should be cheaper and have an entry level choice.
Ideally:

Armored horses = anti infantry.
Coursers: sneak attack against separated and unsuspecting enemies and anti-cav.
Hunters: Against lightly armed/armored infantry such as archers.
Saddle horses: If you lose all your money or just need a ride to some place.

This is just ideally, of course sometimes a guy on a saddle horse will lance coursers etc. This would also make it more important for your own light cavalry protecting the heavy ones against enemy cav.

[Edit to add again] I submit that video as evidence of my points  :lol:

Yes, this seems a good suggestion. I agree that Saddle horses should be pretty useless (adding a free completely useless sumpter horse would be fun though :razz:). Better horses cheaper? Absolutely, then there will finally be viable alternatives to the courser.
 

mrmong

Veteran
saddle horses are useful because infantry and archers can ride them, i think a new budget horse that requires a higher riding skill but is only slightly better than the saddle horse needs to be introduced, how about a stubborn or swayback hunter, i remember the heavy saddle horses being alright in native.

infact we should be able to buy all the alternate versions of the horses, if you choose to buy a spirited courser instead of a warhorse that should be up to you.
 

Berserker Pride

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Best idea so far.  If you can't afford a hunter buy a swaybacked one for 50% less.  That would help fill the gap in peoples wallets.
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
Uuhh... idea,  add the sumpter horse to swadian crossbowmen and give them change to buy the light crossbow. That way they'd have mounted xbowmen just like the bots have.
 

Halcyon

Sergeant Knight
yea that would be fun, would add alot to swadia too. Somehow i feel they are missing something. the only thing they get are swords and more swords. Maybe they need more variation? give them a broadsword, or claymore that can be used as a polearm? just an example: if the claymore had 130 reach using 2h animation, when using polearm animations it would have 110 reach, but the swing would be much faster.
 
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