[suggestion] Khergits need an infantry unit. Sorry if this has been mentioned.

[Kleidophoros]

Posted about this many times, why not once more?
Khergits need an infantry class, probably a skirmisher class will suit them better who have access to jarids and some sort of warhammer.

 

[silentdawn]

I disagree.

Khergits already have Lancers plus Horse Archers. The two most powerful classes in the game. (IMO)

Name one advantage lancers have over the other cavalry. Further more the HA aren't a win button. As long as the opposing team isn't a bunch of idiots going all infantry they can win easy.

Do they really need an infantry unit? Sure they suck in sieges, but then that's their weakness is it not?

Its an unavoidable disadvantage that no other faction has an equivalent to. If other factions had areas they that were equally bad at that would be one thing but the thing is khergit are the only one with a big disadvantage. Keeping things as is makes it so khergit are just voted out every time they come up in these maps and often in maps that are pretty even.

Unless the devs are ok with the khergit being the most unbalanced disliked class, things need to change.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

Khergit infantry class should be very mobile, preferably with higher athletics. That should be its strength.

Do they really need an infantry unit? Sure they suck in sieges, but then that's their weakness is it not?

They suck in sieges. They suck attacking in Ruins. They suck attacking in snowy village (forced stalemates, at best, ain't fun). They suck at ruined fort. They suck attacking in field by the river.

Playing factions that mostly suck isn't fun. Praying for good map isn't fun either.


Lancers are not really overpowered IMO; and HA can be easily countered. Khergits are unable to adapt, because they lack options. Lack of versatility is a serious drawback.

 

[tylertfb]

I love the Khergit and am totally against adding an infantry unit. I have a feeling that once the game is released and good organized clans start playing matches for real, the khergits, even in their current state, are going to wipe the floor with all the other factions. The only thing holding them back now (well besides their incredible weakness to polls) is that public players in non-organized pickup games are way to impatient to use the khergit correctly and rush to their deaths. A disciplined, organized khergit force is going to be pretty dominant I think.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

I love the Khergit and am totally against adding an infantry unit. I have a feeling that once the game is released and good organized clans start playing matches for real, the khergits, even in their current state, are going to wipe the floor with all the other factions. The only thing holding them back now (well besides their incredible weakness to polls) is that public players in non-organized pickup games are way to impatient to use the khergit correctly and rush to their deaths. A disciplined, organized khergit force is going to be pretty dominant I think.

If anything, organized games will help non-khergits far more than khergits. Chaotic battles help khergits more than non-khergits.

 

[FrisianDude]

Allow me to state my natural instinct to this title; noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. No, no no.

It fits them as much as the throwing daggers+ Swadians idiocy. If you're having trouble fighting Nords and Swadians in Melee as Khergit, maybe do as the Khergit do? NOT GET INTO ****ING MELEE WITH THE DOPES. Maybe your arrows don't do enough damage, that'd be a better suggestion. Maybe there are other, unfair to you, (dis)advantages to Khergit meleeing, but an infantry class? Is that honestly necessary? If you suck at handling one situation, try different tactics? Work together better. Have the enemy point their shields one way and then have someone else attack from an unprotected side? Enemy too heavily armored, keeps killing you? Buy a mace instead of a saber? Maybe a pickaxe if possible.

Anyway, those are my reasons not to have Khergits have infantry. 

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

If you suck at handling one situation, try different tactics?

Such as?

Work together better.

In what way? Coordinated lance charge? Indian-like circles made by HA? Massive dismount and charge (crawl)?

Have the enemy point their shields one way and then have someone else attack from an unprotected side?

In random plains?

Enemy too heavily armored, keeps killing you? Buy a mace instead of a saber?

On foot? You're going to charge with a mace, with that low athletics you got? Against whom, nords with (throwing) axes? Swadia with long swords? Rhodoks with polearms? Vaegirs with bardiches?

Anyway, those are my reasons not to have Khergits have infantry.

I would really like khergit fans to demonstrate their tactical and mace abilities in practice. Theory is all good and that, but it doesn't win battles.

 

[PsykoOps]

How about khergit conscript footman. A peasant class with all the goodies we've been missing such as pitchfork, throwing knives and the most expensive weapon would be miilitary scytche. They would have a real crappy armors but they'd be fast runners and very strong. I'd love to shove a fighting stick, what was it called, up a some swadian roayaltys bum
As it is now I always just spawn without a horse and that works but I'd rather have a dedicated footman.

 

[EdwardWellcraft]

How about mounted infantry? Give them low riding skills, no horse archery skills, and no lances. They would be lightly armed and armored but very mobile infantry.

 

[PsykoOps]

That's a very good idea also.

 

[MagicMaster]

I feel inclined to point to my old topic:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,79474.msg2060731.html#msg2060731
(summery of infantry khergit stats)

Slightly dated, but still valid.

Once they, the Khergit that is, get an infantry unit, faction balance will fall into place. (Devs won't be trying to make khergit calv better on the ground without overpowering them.)

 

[Maximo_khan]

Allow me to state my natural instinct to this title; noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. No, no no.

It fits them as much as the throwing daggers+ Swadians idiocy. If you're having trouble fighting Nords and Swadians in Melee as Khergit, maybe do as the Khergit do? NOT GET INTO ****ING MELEE WITH THE DOPES. Maybe your arrows don't do enough damage, that'd be a better suggestion. Maybe there are other, unfair to you, (dis)advantages to Khergit meleeing, but an infantry class? Is that honestly necessary? If you suck at handling one situation, try different tactics? Work together better. Have the enemy point their shields one way and then have someone else attack from an unprotected side? Enemy too heavily armored, keeps killing you? Buy a mace instead of a saber? Maybe a pickaxe if possible.

Anyway, those are my reasons not to have Khergits have infantry.

Why then Rhodok and Nords have been given a class ( cavarly ) which they didn't have in SP ?

Couldn't the try different tactics have worked for them? We demand infantry, the opposition will be purged, erased and silenced.

 

[Urist]

The mounted infantry is a good idea. The class could have 2 in riding skill and access to the steppe horse in buy screen.
But they should still have decent athlethisim. Maybe that could be balanced with lower ironskin and power attack than the infantry of the
other factions.

 

[FrisianDude]

Such as?

Those I mentioned.

In what way? Coordinated lance charge? Indian-like circles made by HA? Massive dismount and charge (crawl)? 

No, having some dudes attack from one side and some other from another. Come now.

In random plains?

Where better?

On foot? You're going to charge with a mace, with that low athletics you got? Against whom, nords with (throwing) axes? Swadia with long swords? Rhodoks with polearms? Vaegirs with bardiches?

Yes. Bring a shield and use walls and stuff for cover and Bob is your proverbial uncle. With a mace you don't need much speedbonus to cause knockdowns and/or heavy damage. Maybe ask some teammates to use their horse archery to attract /disable the throwing axers and then charge the Nordy ****er from behind.

I would really like khergit fans to demonstrate their tactical and mace abilities in practice. Theory is all good and that, but it doesn't win battles.

Blundering about is all good and that, but it leads to silly suggestions.  Like Khergit infantry.

Why then Rhodok and Nords have been given a class ( cavarly ) which they didn't have in SP ?

Couldn't the try different tactics have worked for them? We demand infantry, the opposition will be purged, erased and silenced.

I don't know. Am I a developer? I wasn't last time I checked. Anyway, I read that was because else they simply have no chance in CTF- like games. Khergits on foot still can make viable infantry, though. They need only dismount. Thát was about negating a game-wrecking disadvantage, this is about being too bloody daft to use the tactics of the faction you joined. If you'd join the Khergits in single player, you wouldn't play in Sergeant style, would you?

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

No, having some dudes attack from one side and some other from another. Come now.

And let me guess, you would be fighting bots who would be programmed to stay in the middle of a wide plain, waiting for your coordinated cavalry charge from all sides? Come now.

With a mace you don't need much speedbonus to cause knockdowns and/or heavy damage. Maybe ask some teammates to use their horse archery to attract /disable the throwing axers and then charge the Nordy ****er from behind.

Your enemy will use teammates too. Let's face it, you don't stand a chance with a mace against anyone at all. With mace, you need to be able to close distance. How on earth are you going to do that with such low athletics?

 

[Rongar]

I think the main deficient of Khergits is their helmets.
Horse archers best helmet is Leather Steppe Cap c. It has awful name, it looks  not that fashion,
does not suite any Khergits' armor, and the worst – it hides long hair. If those three things will be solved  Khergits become the best faction ever.

 

[tylertfb]

And let me guess, you would be fighting bots who would be programmed to stay in the middle of a wide plain, waiting for your coordinated cavalry charge from all sides? Come now.

Actually no, you'll be shooting from both sides them in the middle of a wide plane once MoF has induced them to come out of their little hidey-holes. You DID stay out of range of their holed-up archers/xbows and waited for MoF to come about, didn't you?

Your enemy will use teammates too. Let's face it, you don't stand a chance with a mace against anyone at all. With mace, you need to be able to close distance. How on earth are you going to do that with such low athletics?

You won't care about athletics because in a competitive match you will just forefit and take the loss on siege or whatever (because you're gauranteed wins on all the open plains maps that will be part of the competitive rotation you'll still win the overall match) because the good khergit team is never coming down off their horses, so athletics don't matter.

 

[tylertfb]

basically I'm assuming a competitive clan match goes like this:

round (1) Field by the river: overwhelming khergit win
round (2) Snowy Village: easy khergit win
round (3) Village (attacking): khergit forefit, loss
round (4) Village (defending): khergit win
round (5) Ruins: easy khergit win
round (6) Castle Siege (attacking): khergit forefit, loss (why waste time even playing it)
round (7) Castle Siege (defending): 70-30 chance of winning
round ( Ruined Keep: 70-30 chance of khergit win

That's 4 pretty easy wins vs 2 sure losses and two 70-30 chance wins. I'll take khergits under that match structure any day.

 

[Teala]

basically I'm assuming a competitive clan match goes like this:

round (1) Field by the river: overwhelming khergit win
round (2) Snowy Village: easy khergit win
round (3) Village (attacking): khergit forefit, loss
round (4) Village (defending): khergit win
round (5) Ruins: easy khergit win
round (6) Castle Siege (attacking): khergit forefit, loss (why waste time even playing it)
round (7) Castle Siege (defending): 70-30 chance of winning
round ( Ruined Keep: 70-30 chance of khergit win

That's 4 pretty easy wins vs 2 sure losses and two 70-30 chance wins. I'll take khergits under that match structure any day.

LOL I think you are mistaken if you think Khergits can defend the Village.  If they can't attack it successfully, what makes you think they can defend it?  They can't.

 

[Cwvym]

He's not mistaken..

Khergits go out the back door and kill your team before you try for that one ladder.