[Suggestion] Improve tutorial

[Jenbu]

The new tutorial is great but there is some things I think should be improved. The tutorial now is very free and there is no "path". I've tested this tutorial on a friend of me.

A thing I notice was he struggled to find the archery trainer and I had to help him because there was no mark where the archer trainer was and everyone looks the same. This could be fixed by adding the yellow arrow on the archer trainer and add a comment like "Go to the archer trainer"

And after getting bow and arrows he struggled with finding the targets to shoot at and ended shooting at the archers' targets. The thing is that the target you're supposed to shoot at is a bit "hidden" if you understand and both my friend and I struggled to find the right targets. The first I look at is the targets the other archers shoot at.
This could be fixed by making the targets a more clearer because now they are quite hidden. Make a own little archery training field.

After completing the archery training, the text saying "go to horse trainer or fighter trainer" isn't enough. You don't know who this is and adding a yellow arrow one these trainers would be really great.

Another thing is when you are done with one of the horse training (learning to ride or fight with sword etc.) it would be nice with an arrow on the horsetrainer guy.

A last thing is the freedom. When my friend tried to spar with a regular fighter he used the practice horse meant to the horse training to fight the regular fighter. Make it impossible to use a horse when sparring.

These are some small suggestion and easy to implent. I hope we were not the only who struggled a bit finding the trainers and targets.

 

[Shik]

I agree. I had similar issues when trying out the tutorial. The giant yellow arrows that float around are helpful, but it's still a little unintuitive to find your way around the tutorial. The new tutorial is good, but it could probably be improved a little bit.

 

[TheRighteousMan]

Really?  I found everything just fine.  There's only one path, though, I suppose you are able to wander off it.  Could be useful to provide this kind of clarification.  Make the game friendlier to noobs and non-gamers.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I think the tutorial should basically hold the player's hand as much as possible. So yeah, either more of those arrows, or more specific directions given in text. You should never get stuck in a tutorial!

 

[Incognita]

I agree with the OP. All that is needed is a couple of obvious visual cues for the Archery trainer and area where the targets spawn.

For ranged tutorial: Start with throwing weapons; this will make the player less likely to look to the archers. Secondly have the targets spawn in when the player is told to pick up the weapon not after the weapon is picked up (maybe replace the current targets with the standard archery target since the image will be familiar to a lot of people). That way they will already have spotted the targets before looking down to pick up the weapon.

Archery Trainer: He needs something to mark him out as archery related. Maybe make him carry a bow and quiver? Also put him next to the table where the weapon spawns in.
*EDIT* Move the table to the archery trainer, have the targets behind him.

Might be worth making the horse trainer easier to spot too. Start him mounted or slightly further forward with the horse next to (or behind) him.

 

[Jack_Merchantson]

Agree with OP except for one thing:

I think being able to ride a horse over to the fighter trainers is an awesome easter egg! 

 

[Vornne]

I strongly disagree with removing the ability to spar from horseback... it's a great feature for training, because everything regenerates health right after knockdown allowing constant practice.

I've also suggested adding a weapon rack to the tutorial allowing pickup of practice two hander, lance, shield, bow, crossbow, and javelins, so people can use the tutorial to practice all of the skills without having to bother doing the quests over and over.

 

[josefvin]

Pretty much all good ideas here. I say you ought to spawn with no weapon, and there should be some weapon rack or chest in appropriate areas that has most weapon types. Shield combat should be introduced, and the tutorial should cover other aspects of fighting like kicking, feinting (although feinting is really really easy against bots, but perhaps some system could be devised) and footwork. It might not hurt to have a faster horse as well, but no big deal.

Also, in another thread it was suggested that the sparring fighters should have either different weapon types, different skill levels, or both. I'm in favor of different tunics indicating three levels of difficulty, and the option to choose what weapon you want to fight against in the dialogue, with a random button for the lazy.

 

[Vornne]

In 0.802 there are now three levels of melee opponents; novice, regular, and veteran. Still no practice weapon rack though.

 

[Jenbu]

I strongly disagree with removing the ability to spar from horseback... it's a great feature for training, because everything regenerates health right after knockdown allowing constant practice.

Yeah but isn't the sparring made for training melee skills?

 

[buzbybadman]

Trainers could have a banner much as banner bearers would carry stuck in the ground next to them.
I did find that with the block-training that stopping after every five was frustrating, I wanted to try and build a bit of a rhythm up, although I appreciate that the first go was good at only five strokes to see if I liked it or not.
Being able to keep going would also help a lot if a much needed mention of chamber blocking was included.
Maybe the block training only ever results in knock down, so you can get straight back up and continue, this could be explained by the trainer saying something such as 'I won't be striking you hard, but it will still hurt!'.
Love the idea of the weapon rack but perhaps it is inside the hut, to which access is only granted once you have completed/taken part in all the tutorials.  This would also demonstrate using the action key on a door, which could maybe swing open.
So far the most fun I have found via the freedom is to chase the other guys on horses round and shooting them off, seems they all grew up in the Russian circus Good training too!

It might be nice as sparring from horse back has been mentioned, that once the hut has been opened to reveal the rack, that you can also challenge the chaps on horse back to spar as they thunder round the course..?

 

[Sir Pwn-A-Lot]

The new tutorial is great but there is some things I think should be improved. The tutorial now is very free and there is no "path". I've tested this tutorial on a friend of me.

A thing I notice was he struggled to find the archery trainer and I had to help him because there was no mark where the archer trainer was and everyone looks the same. This could be fixed by adding the yellow arrow on the archer trainer and add a comment like "Go to the archer trainer"

And after getting bow and arrows he struggled with finding the targets to shoot at and ended shooting at the archers' targets. The thing is that the target you're supposed to shoot at is a bit "hidden" if you understand and both my friend and I struggled to find the right targets. The first I look at is the targets the other archers shoot at.
This could be fixed by making the targets a more clearer because now they are quite hidden. Make a own little archery training field.

After completing the archery training, the text saying "go to horse trainer or fighter trainer" isn't enough. You don't know who this is and adding a yellow arrow one these trainers would be really great.

Another thing is when you are done with one of the horse training (learning to ride or fight with sword etc.) it would be nice with an arrow on the horsetrainer guy.

A last thing is the freedom. When my friend tried to spar with a regular fighter he used the practice horse meant to the horse training to fight the regular fighter. Make it impossible to use a horse when sparring.

These are some small suggestion and easy to implent. I hope we were not the only who struggled a bit finding the trainers and targets.

Kids these days... can't do **** without a marker showing them where to go. Go play Morrowind and learn how to find people you need ffs.
No, really. There's about 10 people out there, how is it possible to mess em up?

 

[josefvin]

The new tutorial is great but there is some things I think should be improved. The tutorial now is very free and there is no "path". I've tested this tutorial on a friend of me.

A thing I notice was he struggled to find the archery trainer and I had to help him because there was no mark where the archer trainer was and everyone looks the same. This could be fixed by adding the yellow arrow on the archer trainer and add a comment like "Go to the archer trainer"

And after getting bow and arrows he struggled with finding the targets to shoot at and ended shooting at the archers' targets. The thing is that the target you're supposed to shoot at is a bit "hidden" if you understand and both my friend and I struggled to find the right targets. The first I look at is the targets the other archers shoot at.
This could be fixed by making the targets a more clearer because now they are quite hidden. Make a own little archery training field.

After completing the archery training, the text saying "go to horse trainer or fighter trainer" isn't enough. You don't know who this is and adding a yellow arrow one these trainers would be really great.

Another thing is when you are done with one of the horse training (learning to ride or fight with sword etc.) it would be nice with an arrow on the horsetrainer guy.

A last thing is the freedom. When my friend tried to spar with a regular fighter he used the practice horse meant to the horse training to fight the regular fighter. Make it impossible to use a horse when sparring.

These are some small suggestion and easy to implent. I hope we were not the only who struggled a bit finding the trainers and targets.

Kids these days... can't do **** without a marker showing them where to go. Go play Morrowind and learn how to find people you need ffs.
No, really. There's about 10 people out there, how is it possible to mess em up?

Ahh, Morrowind. The hours I sank into that game. I agree with you, Pwny, but to not get too far off topic, are we a dying breed?

 

[TheRighteousMan]

Kids these days... can't do **** without a marker showing them where to go. Go play Morrowind and learn how to find people you need ffs.
No, really. There's about 10 people out there, how is it possible to mess em up?

Well, I found everything alright... like I said, help noobs/non-gamers.  Really the only kind of people that I'd imagine having problems, but I could be wrong.  Morrowind is the shiznit.  Oblivion sucks in comparison though imo.

 

[DanAngleland]

Good points from the OP, I too didn't realise at first which targets the archery trainer wanted me to shoot at. And I was confused as to who the melee trainer was, it wasn't obvious by looking at the melee group.

 

[josefvin]

Perhaps there ought to be a melee trainer with a big yellow arrow over his head who refers you to spar with the fighters.

 

[Vornne]

Yeah but isn't the sparring made for training melee skills?

There is nothing stopping anyone from fighting on foot. And isn't fighting with a sword from horseback still melee? The point of the tutorial is to train your skills however you see fit, there is no way to be "exploiting" anything.

 

[ares007]

I strongly disagree with removing the ability to spar from horseback... it's a great feature for training, because everything regenerates health right after knockdown allowing constant practice.

I've also suggested adding a weapon rack to the tutorial allowing pickup of practice two hander, lance, shield, bow, crossbow, and javelins, so people can use the tutorial to practice all of the skills without having to bother doing the quests over and over.

I second this. The more ways to practice fighting the better.

I especially think that some kind of weapon rack with various practice weapons would be great. It might also be good to have another group of "fighters" with shields. Also, you should be able to pick up missile weapons without doing the archery tutorial so that you can practice on your own on the targets.


I must say though, that the new tutorial is really cool and a big improvement.