[Suggestion] Heraldry, and how to implement it

What sort of heraldry system would you like?

  • In-game heraldry creator with large list of preset images and patterns to chose from. Less creative

    Votes: 99 52.1%
  • In-game heraldry creator with ability to import custom images. A middle ground between the two.

    Votes: 66 34.7%
  • Image files imported into the game. More creative freedom at the risk of abuse.

    Votes: 21 11.1%
  • No heraldry at all.

    Votes: 4 2.1%

  • Total voters
    190

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Timothy the Knight

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Before you start frothing at the mouth and yelling that this has been discussed before, hear me out. Yes, a heraldry system of some kind has been suggested numerous times, but there have been very little examples of exactly how a system of this kind could be implemented. Well, I'm here to change that.

So far, everybody's been rather set in the idea that heraldry would strictly be image files imported from outside of the game, but what about an in-game coat-of-arms maker? Apparently, there was going to be something like that in M&B at some point, as this here mod uses the incomplete code.

Now, this sort of system has many advantages, and isn't all that complicated to whip into a working model. First of all, since the system is all contained in the game itself, there is no need to traffic around large amounts of image files, so no additional stress on the servers because of it. Second, since the content is all checked and approved by the developers, there should be very little chance for someone to put inappropriate stuff in their coat of arms. The only big cock they could have on their heraldry is this:
cock.gif

If you have doubts of how well this sort of system would work, or have no idea of how it would work, check out this little online coat of arms designer. It's quite basic, but very effective. The only problem is the lack of images available, which brings me to my next point.

If one would want to be a bit more lenient, we could have a system where users can import their own images to be used in the in-game heraldry maker.

Having someone add their own image of, say, an abstracted rather than heraldic dragon, would be as simple as having an alpha channel (for those who are unfamiliar with the jargon, the area that determines transparency) of the dragon and importing it into the game. Since alpha channel is black and white (the texture is in the game itself, we only need the alpha channel to tell the game what areas the texture is applied to), the images shouldn't be very large in size and should cause minimal extra stress on the servers. To illustrate, here's an example image:
alphachanel.png

This is an alpha channel. It simply tells the game where the dragon's separate colour scheme is on the image.
alphaillus1.png

and here it is applied, without any hassle with the textures at all.
alphaillus2.png

just to illustrate, the texture adapts as the image is moved around, replicated and shrunk.

Of course, to avoid naughty stuff making it into the game, we could have this custom image system moderated somehow. Perhaps anyone showing up with tits on their shield would get baned from the servers. Or we could have this system only for the duration of the beta, when the devs have a much smaller influx of custom images to deal with. The best stuff would, of course, make it into the game.

The disadvantage of this sort of system is that it limits creative freedom somewhat. If you'd want something like a rainbow pattern from a hippie's shirt, you probably couldn't do it. But that may be a good thing, since in reality official heraldry is a very strictly regulated system for the precise reason to prevent people from using confusing and stupid patterns.

And what if somebody made an exact replica of someone else's coat of arms? Well, we could have a system similar to what we currently have with names, no duplicates on the same server. Of course, this would mean that positions you can stick charges in on the shield would have to be rigid, further limiting freedom.

Then of course, we could also have the age-old system of having people import their own images into the game. This permits great freedom, but it sort of shuts out those who can't use image editing software, and there is ample opportunity for abuse.

Those two chief problems can be solved with the community helping newbies by making images for them at their request, and abusers would get baned from servers. But then the question of bandwidth usage is a bit more complicated. While the images aren't all that big, when there's a large amount of them going about it could cause lag on the server. The in-game creator system lacks this because custom heraldry made with it is essentially just a few bytes of data that tell the game how the already available graphical resources are arranged on each shield.

Now, as for making it easily identifiable who has what sort of heraldry, regardless of system used, a few very simple things could be done. First of all, how does one link a name with an image? We could have people's names float above their heads, instead of the round faction icon currently used and we could have a small image of the heraldry on the scoreboard next to the name, like so:
scoreboardcoat.png

That should clear up most inconveniences of identification.

So, there's my idea of how a properly functioning system of heraldry could be applied to the game. Vote on the poll, post your comments/flames/spam/whathaveyou, and to the developers: please accept and consider this humble suggestion from a lowly rank-and-file tester.
 
Great idea, and well thought out.

I voted for the first option, just because it would be very easy to make/create banners, with no chance for abuse.

Plus, even with the first option, there would still be the oportunity to possibly have a contribution model for new heraldry images, where a player can submit a new image to be added into the game on a quick patch type deal.
 
I'm the sort of crude person that would find it funny to have a pair of tits on his shield, so I vote for the most lenient.

My only doubt about this is it may screw up recognizing enemys and friends.
 
There could be a server sided option that controls the images.

For example:
A server allows the use of custom images.
A server will have set images for each faction.
A server will have set images for each faction with exceptions (like clan members or server admins)
 
really good idea!

i vote for option nr.1

option 2 doesn't prevent abuse and has the negative you'd have to download images anyway - there is no real advantage compared to option 3 imo.
custom image uploading (option 3) could be as well implemented as the server option.
 
Yeah, custom heraldry would be awesome, but there has to be a way so that you can't have the default heraldry of the opposing team, or it'll get really confusing.
 
Kapt Torbjorn said:
Yeah, custom heraldry would be awesome, but there has to be a way so that you can't have the default heraldry of the opposing team, or it'll get really confusing.

Maybe the background colour is always your factions colour.
 
Very good idea! Lots of games use a system like this. I can't believe nobody (especially disappointed in myself) thought of it until now.
 
looy said:
My only doubt about this is it may screw up recognizing enemys and friends.
A simple compromise would be to only allow greyscales. Then if every team gets a colour, it would simply show white as white, the grey as the faction colour and black as black.
 
Excellent idea. It'd be nice if that custom banner system lying around disabled in the game could be re-implemented and put into multiplayer for deathmatches or something.
 
:roll: at the people who voted no heraldry

I like it. I think it would work best with the in-game editor. You should still be able to select background colors for deathmatch, but on team games, the background would automatically change to your faction's background color.
 
Wouldn't this be a lot like Source game's spray?  Easily abused but otherwise pretty cool.  I'd love to be able to import, say, my family's coat of arms for use.  That'd be super cool. 

I'm not against a built-in editor, but I'd prefer to be able to import my own images.  And for those of you worried about inappropriate images: if there's one thing Halo 3 taught us it's that where there's a will there's a cock.  (Halo 3 had a built-in insignia editor similar to what's been suggested)
 
Game experience may change during online play.

That said, I'd rather not see penises if I could help it. I'm all for the built-in system, but I do respect that others want their own custom images. A lot of them would probably be out of context and silly, but that's why it should simply be a server option.

Here's my opinion on how systems 1 and 3 could be implemented simultaneously with the least amount of trouble post-release:

Everything is run through the in-game editor. You have several default fields, charges, colors, etc. to choose from. You also have the option to import your own custom charges, fields, etc.

Your custom image would have to be distributed to everyone playing in order for them to see it. Therefore, when you join a server you would automatically upload the file to a folder dedicated to the purpose. The server would then automatically start a download to all connected players for the file. Hopefully the banners would be saved in a rather friendly format so that they aren't massive files. I imagine the filename for their banner would be the same as their username at the time of login. Check their name against the banners on the server, and if there's a match there's no need to upload their banner.

If user uploads are disabled, the checksum should still take place to determine if their banner is already loaded to the server. Why? Because you might only want to manually add banners to your server. That way, you could be running a clan server and you could save heraldry only for your members. You would know immediately that you're fighting a member of the clan that owns the sever you're on when you see they don't have the faction heraldry everyone else does. You could also just use it as a filtering system on your own, using your own rules and standards for heraldry.

Then, you could disable the banners and not have any saved onto the server. It would be just like it is now.
 
I voted for option 2, I dont think the editor alone will be worthwhile in my opinion. If you restrict it enough to stop people making phallic symbols then you will probably end up with a lot of very similar designs, this seems to go against the whole idea of having an individual banner in the first place. Obviously if you give more freedom then you are going to get sexual references cropping up on shields. However having said that not everyone can be expected to be good at making textures so having such an in game system would be an easy option for those without the skill.

I would want to upload the image in my signiture to the left and would be far less happy with having to create one from a restrictive editor. Also I dont see the inclusion of sexual references as bad in all cases, its certainly not something that should be banned outright and across the board but rather something that should be chosen at the server level. While most servers would probably want to avoid anything offensive in the banners this could be done with exactly the same system as is used to punish griefers. If someone comes in to the server with an offensive banner and people dont like it, they kick him. If he comes back they ban him. Admins could also be given a control for deactivating peoples banners which would replace the players banner with the default team banner on everyone elses computer save the offending players.

looy said:
Kapt Torbjorn said:
Yeah, custom heraldry would be awesome, but there has to be a way so that you can't have the default heraldry of the opposing team, or it'll get really confusing.

Maybe the background colour is always your factions colour.

If there is a background colour does this not already assume that the heraldic banners would be created only by the in game editor and negate user uploading of images ?

I would point out that regular mount and blade has plenty of different knightly banners on shields even on the same team yet there is no confusion about who is who. All that needs to be done is to leave the team icon above the players head as the team icon. The shields arent exactly a great indicator since players dont have to use one right now anyway.

EDIT: About the use of the opposing teams banner on your shield, if custom heraldry is allowed then shields will no longer be associated with the players team, also given there are 5 teams a player would be able to choose only 1 to imitate in their banner, as such they are only likely to get to use it in this way about 20 - 30% of the time.
 
Sounds like fun but it must not during any circumstances interrupt enemy recognition.
Oh, and I was really hoping for that fantasy team bubble above your teammates to be a temporary solution, it looks like crap really.


 
robke112 said:
looy said:
My only doubt about this is it may screw up recognizing enemys and friends.
A simple compromise would be to only allow greyscales. Then if every team gets a colour, it would simply show white as white, the grey as the faction colour and black as black.

I made a similar suggestion in one of the previous posts.
This should be at least a server + player option if heraldry is ever introduced.
 
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