[Suggestion] "Fix" bastard swords

[AoC]

隐藏

No. Bastard Sword is problematic due to other issues, namely spinning, instastab, kickslash, shield, high 2h weapon damage etc.

It's not trivial. Oh, and bastard swords are great due to very high 2h proficiency.

No, this is just another whining thread.
Spinning, instastab, kickslash all have nothing to do with bastard sword in particular. All of them are Warband features, not bastard sword features.
"bastard sword + shield" = dead man. Or at least his shield will be broken.
...and "high 2h weapon damage" actually means 35c/26p! Stellar damage, indeed...


PS Yesterday I was fighting on a siege server against swadians a lot (on siege servers I always go for attackers, and swadians were the defending faction for a couple of times). I didn't have any problems fighting bastard sword users (I was using 1h sword/scimitar without shield because I played as an archer most of the time). When they tried to spam, they died in 2-3 blows. When they tried to spin and forgot to block my blows they died soon as well. When they tried to use bastard+shield they died because I outspammed them with my faster weapon. However, I had a couple of good fights when my opponents used this sword correctly. BTW, Seawied was there as well.

PPS And I guess I know one of the reasons for Marnid's presence in this thread

PPPS And indeed, fighting the guy with a huscarl shield using a bastard sword is like hitting a concrete wall with your head. 100% true.

If this topic is one of the biggest concern's of the community, doesn't it speak to the level of warbands completion?

If this is one of our major issues, that seems to imply that the game is pretty well finished with the exception of little changes like this topic suggests.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

No, this is just another whining thread.

I'm hurt!  Maybe some of the people taking my side are just whining, but I actually believe that this is legitimately an issue.  Lose the 'tude, my friend.

 

[JoG]

I'm hurt!  Maybe some of the people taking my side are just whining, but I actually believe that this is legitimately an issue.  Lose the 'tude, my friend.

OK, i'll paraphrase it: Scipio wanted to share his concerns about the bastard sword but then it turned into another whining thread .

Actually we can test it on the duel server.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Upon reading some of these posts, I'm thinking that disabling the kickslash thing would go a long way in rebalancing the bastard sword.  However, I feel that the insta-stab needs to go.  That's its worst feature.

I do think the bastard sword should be the most formidable weapon choice for the Swadians, and I'm not looking to nerf it to oblivion.  I just think it needs tweaking.

 

[kingofnoobia]

Upon reading some of these posts, I'm thinking that disabling the kickslash thing would go a long way in rebalancing the bastard sword.  However, I feel that the insta-stab needs to go.  That's its worst feature.

I do think the bastard sword should be the most formidable weapon choice for the Swadians, and I'm not looking to nerf it to oblivion.  I just think it needs tweaking.

Removing kickslash: +1. That really deserves a separate thread.

While stab is undoubtably fast, I can't really say it is as bad as the dreadful instastabbing of .6 err.. 50? (iirc) now, it's quite blockable. When it does instastab, it usually (kind of always) occurs when fighting at really close range, generally not doing enough damage to even flinch the opponent. While I wouldn't protest against some experimenting with the speed of stabs, I'm afraid it will lead to invincible blockers. Right now, duels (even with bastard swords) tend to last long enough, and they are generally finally ended by stabs. In my opinion, fast stabs are a necessity.

 

[Welcome_To_Hell]

I love bastard swords 

Noo need to nerf them imho.

What makes them best in duels is that the speed is of a 1 hander and the range of a 2 hander. So you can be out of kick range but inside the attack range with superb speed.

They are very hard to go against but can be beat with a 2 hander if you really watch your range.
And they can be beat with a 1 hander if you know how to avoid kick.

 

[JoG]

Upon reading some of these posts, I'm thinking that disabling the kickslash thing would go a long way in rebalancing the bastard sword. 

I agree with this. Personally I don't like kickslashing as well. Still, I'm getting used to this now.

However, I feel that the insta-stab needs to go.  That's its worst feature.

Well, stabbing now is WAY slower than it was before. I remember one patch where you could make a stab right after your side swing and it was 100% hit, because it was faster than the side swing of your opponent. Now I don't have much problems blocking thrusts, especially since they are pretty predictable (I mean that in most cases you know when your opponent will stab you).

But still, the problems you've mentioned in the first post are the issues of the game itself, not the issues of the particular weapon.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Insta-stab only pertains to the bastard sword.  I'm not referring to the speed of stabs game-wide.  The bastard sword has a particularly vicious thrust that is impossible to block unless you're expecting it.

 

[Sarejo]

Insta-stab only pertains to the bastard sword.  I'm not referring to the speed of stabs game-wide.  The bastard sword has a particularly vicious thrust that is impossible to block unless you're expecting it.

There is no such thing! It's impossible that only one weapon has an insta stab and all the other weapons of the same class don't... Unless it's a conjunction of speed and reach that make it deadly. But I've seen many duels with Bastard Swords and stab get avoided like any other hits (I can't speak for myself since, well, my manual blocking isn't exactly pro)

 

[gypsydevil]

The fact that there is no clear majority either way kind of implies that no change should be made. 

I'm just saying..  We have 2.5 weeks left, I'd like the devs to work on:

cavalry combat,
balancing ctf maps,
improving conquest mode,
addressing lag and stuttering issues
implementing sweet spots,
Fixing collision mesh/in game model differences,
fine tuning single player

In comparison, making minor changes to a weapon where only 50 percent think there is a problem, and of that 50%,  90% of those guys really only care about kick-slash and otherwise feel the weapon is fine.  Doesn't that seem like a pretty low priority?

 

[ares007]

This is interesting..

1).  This topic has been at the top of the boards for a couple days.

2).  The stuff involved is actually pretty trivial.

3).  The opinions are split down the middle.


If this topic is one of the biggest concern's of the community, doesn't it speak to the level of warbands completion?

If this is one of our major issues, that seems to imply that the game is pretty well finished with the exception of little changes like this topic suggests.

There have always been "important" arguments and threads like these at the top of the page even when Warband was in its early stages. Your argument is moot

There are still big issues (such as weapon lengths not matching up with the meshes) (not sufficient mechanics to control initiative in the fight)

 

[Sarejo]

Well, most of people that suggest some change with the Bastard Sword complain about kick slashing, that is not even a problem with this weapon. The other arguments have been, one by one, proven to be invalid, because each one of them is not a problem, the "problem" is that all together make a very good weapon. That's why either price or availability of the weapon be changed, but the weapons attributes are fine and shouldn't be changed.

 

[Galtran]

The fact that there is no clear majority either way kind of implies that no change should be made. 

I'm just saying..  We have 2.5 weeks left, I'd like the devs to work on:

cavalry combat,
balancing ctf maps,
improving conquest mode,
addressing lag and stuttering issues
implementing sweet spots,
Fixing collision mesh/in game model differences,
fine tuning single player

In comparison, making minor changes to a weapon where only 50 percent think there is a problem, and of that 50%,  90% of those guys really only care about kick-slash and otherwise feel the weapon is fine.  Doesn't that seem like a pretty low priority?

+1

 

[ares007]

The fact that there is no clear majority either way kind of implies that no change should be made. 

I'm just saying..  We have 2.5 weeks left, I'd like the devs to work on:

cavalry combat,
balancing ctf maps,
improving conquest mode,
addressing lag and stuttering issues
implementing sweet spots,
Fixing collision mesh/in game model differences,
fine tuning single player

In comparison, making minor changes to a weapon where only 50 percent think there is a problem, and of that 50%,  90% of those guys really only care about kick-slash and otherwise feel the weapon is fine.  Doesn't that seem like a pretty low priority?

+1

+1

 

[Binboy]

Speaking of KickSlash, I can KickSlash with a Long Great Axe as well as a Long Great Bardiche.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Well, most of people that suggest some change with the Bastard Sword complain about kick slashing, that is not even a problem with this weapon. The other arguments have been, one by one, proven to be invalid, because each one of them is not a problem, the "problem" is that all together make a very good weapon. That's why either price or availability of the weapon be changed, but the weapons attributes are fine and shouldn't be changed.

That's what I said in the very first post.  All of the B sword's properties make perfect sense, but all combined they create a monster.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

The fact that there is no clear majority either way kind of implies that no change should be made. 

I'm just saying..  We have 2.5 weeks left, I'd like the devs to work on:

*stuff*

You think it takes a week, or even an hour, to tweak a single weapon?

 

[socks]

I didn't read the thread, but the h. bastard sword is imo the best weapon on the field in the hands of a good blocker, and a very ****ty weapon in the hands of a bad one. Mostly meaning that noobs will end up using other weapons until they're good blockers, and then have the h. bastard sword be "accessible" to them.

Really, you just can't play with it unless you can block well.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

I disagree.  It's entirely noob-friendly.  It requires intense concentration to beat  B sword user even if he's just mindlessly spamming, because of the combined reach, speed, and power of the weapon.  Several of them in a group is unstoppable.

 

[Kevlar]

Block him then smash him..not all that hard really.