[Suggestion] "Fix" bastard swords

[DanAngleland]

I think this thread highlights the drawbacks of combat as a whole rather than the bastard sword being overpowered. The kick slash, not to mention spinners, make this weapon seem better than it is. I don't think it needs to have it's stats changed.

 

[AoC]

Having a bad day today aoc?

No, it was actually quite nice.

Weapons getting significantly better due to cost or difficulty in in obtaining them has been a staple of game design for ages.  But anyway making the bottom tier cost money would bring them in line with the other weapons, but you wouldn't have much variety from the top to bottom cost still. Also, there should always be at least one free weapon and armor set.

Significant is very loose term. Game design staple is to give players choices, and reward good play. Why there should always be at least one free weapon or armor set when there is 1000 freebie gold each round (thus player can always have both weapon and armour) ? Answer.

I think you completely misread my post in regards to what I was trying to say about bastard swords. I didn't mention using a shield anywhere either. I was saying that people pick bastard swords because they fall between the two extremes of swords (long slower range control vs fast short ranged ) and do both roles fairly well.

They do indeed, and they cost less than either.

If you want an example of good players that are somewhat opposite, try to see if you can find gravish to duel with a greatsword, and he will show you how to do range control to perfection, and try to find neih using a swadia 'sword' and he will sneak in hits against your bastard sword that make it feel slow.

Gravish have good range control even with ping 100, i've only played against his 2h spiked mace. As EU player i have little experience with those players, but there are many decent players who also can do it.

As always the practitioner makes a difference in the weapons ability and some people make weapons feel faster then they are when you yourself are using them, but in general I stand by what I originally said. Yes in some situations the bastard is greater then a 1h (with NO shield) because it has range, so you can control the fight via feinting as you move in range, but once you get in close, and the both of you start a swing, and both of you are in good position, and both of you are twisting your mouse to make the hit get their faster, the sword will win every time over a bastard.

It dont. And either side can disengage (in 2h sword case to gain reach advantage).

Anyway, you sound like you are having a bad day and are somewhat opinionated about how people play the game based on your 2h sword user comment, so this is probably falling on deaf ears.

As i said, i have good day. I'm also 2h sword user, to be fair i use most weapons.

I hope your day gets better or maybe your temperament in general improves. Feel free to continue insulting me if that helps cheer you up

I don't think that my temperament in general will improve. I'm quite sure it wont. Insults are good start anyhow.

 

[ares007]

I wouldn't mind if bastard swords and HBS lost a little bit of damage. I don't think they should be as effective against armor as they currently are.

However, in unarmored combat, the [heavy] bastard sword should be king in my opinion.


But regardless, if it is nerfed significantly, I'll most likely still use it. And I'll still pwnzorz u with it. Because they are awesome swords.

 

[Night Ninja]

They are awesome. It's a weapon where the whole is far greater than the sum of the parts.

 

[blink180heights]

I find myself getting killed alot lately by the slowness of Swinging to Shielding animation, when Bastard Sword is used as one handed with shield.  It is super slow as a one hand weapon.

 

[Seawied86]

I find myself getting killed alot lately by the slowness of Swinging to Shielding animation, when Bastard Sword is used as one handed with shield.  It is super slow as a one hand weapon.

its supposed to be that way. Not useful in multiplayer, but its very useful in single player

 

[Vornne]

I suggest waiting to see how the next version's swing sweet spot changes things before asking for the stats to be changed; though the kick-slash needs to be toned down in any case.

 

[Orion]

... Why do we even have Bastard Swords in multiplayer? Are they necessary? The Swadians have a variety of one handed swords, and they have the purely two handed swords as well. The bastard sword sucks as a one hander, so it's used almost exclusively as a two hander. Against other two handers, it has obvious advantages primarily due to its unique combination of high reach and high speed.

So why not force the Swadians to specialize a little more? Either go with a two hander or go with a one hander, no hand-n-half. Leave them for the cavalry because they work quite well as cavalry swords with their extra reach and the Men At Arms have lower proficiencies, if memory serves.

Swadian infantry already has versatility that other factions can't match. They have a wide range of one handed swords (which are the best one handers due to all 4 attack directions) and they have two handed swords (highest reach and speed among two handed weapons). They also have long awlpikes to counter cavalry, the second largest shields in the game, light throwing weapons, and great armor options (great helmet, gauntlets, splinted greaves, brigandine). So they should get be-all-do-all swords too? Really? If you wanted optimum effectiveness in all situations without having a bastard sword, you'd have a two handed sword, short sword, heavy heater shield, and a long awlpike or war darts. Aha, see? You have to choose between counter-cavalry or ranged capability. Now if you have a bastard sword, you can get a shield and the awlpike and the war darts. You can advance under ranged fire, engage enemies with a potential reach advantage, you can stop cavalry charges, and you have ranged capability. Having the bastard sword gives you the potential to do everything, all while being the biggest tin can in the game.

I'd say remove them from infantry, keep them for men at arms because they're good cavalry swords, and nobody can really complain. If you want one that badly, play as cavalry. Trust me, you get more one hit kills and I'm sure that would appeal to you.

 

[Binboy]

"Hey you Man-at-Arms, drop me a heavy bastard sword next round will ya?"

Anyways I like bastard swords because its overall a tough weapon. I only like it because

1# the model of the weapon looks awesome and cool. (I like the heavy bastard sword most.)
2# I can use the bastard sword with shield, its a good safety thing for against archers. So I don't have to carry a 1H sword and a 2H sword (2 slots) if I want to use a weapon and shield. So basically its a very versatile weapon, Good Damage (should be reduced), Good Speed, Good Reach and somewhat affordable.

 

[Berserker Pride]

Bastard Swords are not the best swadian cavalry weapon by any stretch.  They do 24 damage used from horseback.  They also slow down to 63 speed.  You are much better finding a much longer and more damaging two-hander to use from horseback.  The speed of the regular sword will serve you way better from horseback.  Now personally I think the one-handed penalty for using a bastard sword from horseback should only be 15%.  This would put them at 81 speed 31 damage.  Which would be a decent horseback weapon but not unbalanced due to its slow speed.

 

[Reapy]

I don't want to see them go if only for the fact that as said by some others, the model is pretty cool. It is like the perfect 'sword' model, just the right length and design. It doesn't get anymore 'pure' then the bastard sword in terms of aesthetics.

I dunno, I think they are good weapons, maybe tone down the bastard sword damage (leave heavy since it costs a lot more) if something even needs to be done? *shrug*

 

[Zues]

Both sides have excellent arguments. Orion has brought up an excellent point that swadians are extremely versatile in almost every situation. As a bastard sword user I thought I'd add my $.02

1. Right now, I think the bsword could use a slight reduction of speed, maybe 1 or 2. It is blazingly fast wielded 2h, and very few weapons can match it. However, swadians are the only faction in the game that does not have a weapon that does bonus damage to shields. Nords and Saranids have the 1h and 2h axes, Rhodoks have the millitary sickle, Vaegirs have the Bardiche, and even the Khergits get the two bottom tier 1h axes. I see the bastards sword speed as it's counter to not having one of these weapons available.

2. I personally wouldn't cry if they removed the bastard sword entirely, or like Orion said, give it only to the Man-at-Arms. If they did remove them, I would hope the would make the 2h swords a little more affordable (I believe the greatsword is the most expensive weapon in the game atm if I'm not mistaken?) Maybe bring the greatsword down to 900-950 denares.

3. Reduce the speed of the bastard sword to the same speed as the 2h. This way there is a clear upgrade from the bastard sword.

Honestly, if they gave swadians a weapon that had a bonus vs shield and it was around the same price as a heavy bastard or more, I would use that instead. Trying to fight huscarl shields or Board shields as a swadian is like bashing my head through concrete. It will break, but it takes a loooong time.

 

[Gumpy]

Well I don't think they're that fast. Scimitars are much more annoying and put me at a standstill, not knowing when to attack because I can be out-interrupted with ease. Bastard swords by contrast are easily blockable unless you're against a good feinter or you're not really paying attention/against multiple opponents. They're a very versatile weapon, almost the "ideal" weapon in warband, but I don't think they have a foot too far in any direction; speed, damage, reach, etc, they're pretty well balanced imo. I prefer the two swords after them, if only they weren't so prohibitively expensive.

Swadia on the whole is still pretty lacking I think. I like them for their aesthetic, but as for combat options, they're the poorest in warband, and the most costly.

 

[Zues]

Swadia on the whole is still pretty lacking I think. I like them for their aesthetic, but as for combat options, they're the poorest in warband, and the most costly.

I would have to disagree on the most costly. Being able to get mail for under 900 denares is pretty cheap.

 

[Berserker Pride]

Vaegir Spearmen can get the lamellar vest for under a thousand but their free weapon is the worst in the game so it doesn't really work out too well.  Swadia at least gets the sword which is a capable weapon.

 

[kingofnoobia]

So why not force the Swadians to specialize a little more?

Why would we want to do that?

I find the bastard sword a good addition to the game. I like it in duels, but outside of duel servers I'll only get them over the heavier twohanders due to their price. Whenever I have the money to get a two handed sword or great sword, I'll prefer them. I can agree with a small nerf to damage and/or cost increase, but removing them altogether seems like a terrible idea to me. They have their own separate role, and that is dueling, being able to swap quickly between combat mode (2h) and walking mode (1h + shield) and being a cheap (rather poor) twohander. Onehanders are better whenever you need a shield (group combat, approaching archers, ...), heavier twohanders are better whenever you're in a melee combat situation apart from dueling a highly skilled opponent.

 

[gypsydevil]

This is interesting..

1).  This topic has been at the top of the boards for a couple days.

2).  The stuff involved is actually pretty trivial.

3).  The opinions are split down the middle.


If this topic is one of the biggest concern's of the community, doesn't it speak to the level of warbands completion?

If this is one of our major issues, that seems to imply that the game is pretty well finished with the exception of little changes like this topic suggests.

 

[AoC]

This is interesting..

1).  This topic has been at the top of the boards for a couple days.

2).  The stuff involved is actually pretty trivial.

3).  The opinions are split down the middle.


If this topic is one of the biggest concern's of the community, doesn't it speak to the level of warbands completion?

If this is one of our major issues, that seems to imply that the game is pretty well finished with the exception of little changes like this topic suggests.

No. Bastard Sword is problematic due to other issues, namely spinning, instastab, kickslash, shield, high 2h weapon damage etc.

It's not trivial. Oh, and bastard swords are great due to very high 2h proficiency.

 

[JoG]

No. Bastard Sword is problematic due to other issues, namely spinning, instastab, kickslash, shield, high 2h weapon damage etc.

It's not trivial. Oh, and bastard swords are great due to very high 2h proficiency.

No, this is just another whining thread.
Spinning, instastab, kickslash all have nothing to do with bastard sword in particular. All of them are Warband features, not bastard sword features.
"bastard sword + shield" = dead man. Or at least his shield will be broken.
...and "high 2h weapon damage" actually means 35c/26p! Stellar damage, indeed...


PS Yesterday I was fighting on a siege server against swadians a lot (on siege servers I always go for attackers, and swadians were the defending faction for a couple of times). I didn't have any problems fighting bastard sword users (I was using 1h sword/scimitar without shield because I played as an archer most of the time). When they tried to spam, they died in 2-3 blows. When they tried to spin and forgot to block my blows they died soon as well. When they tried to use bastard+shield they died because I outspammed them with my faster weapon. However, I had a couple of good fights when my opponents used this sword correctly. BTW, Seawied was there as well.

PPS And I guess I know one of the reasons for Marnid's presence in this thread

PPPS And indeed, fighting the guy with a huscarl shield using a bastard sword is like hitting a concrete wall with your head. 100% true.

 

[Seawied86]

I would be all for reducing the 1h penalty, if the 2h speed of the weapon was reduced.