[Suggestion] Chamber blocking

[Laszlo]

Laszlo: I don't see why you'd want to "level the playing field" by punishing everybody and making both systems internally inconsistent. I think swapping the verticals would probably help everybody in the long run, since even reverse users would surely benefit from having an internally consistent system, even if the directions are initially counter-intuitive. The reversal of chambering directions is completely natural anyway, since it results from the reversal of attack directions. That's just a question of your own, personal choice.

My response to that would be: I don't see why you'd want to destroy a level playing field by rewarding some people and punishing others and making both systems generally inconsistent.

When I was a novice riposter I simply couldn't land side slash ripostes. Ever. The counter-intuitive mouse movement was so incredibly hard that I thought I'd never be able to do it.

The ability to use the same mouse direction for 2 out of the 4 riposte movements meant that I could build up my skills using 'baby-steps' and then eventually progress on to opposite mouse direction for the remaining 2.

Having internal consistency is a good point, that it will ultimately be more beneficial in the long term I'm open to. But for the time being I think it's more likely that if they swapped over overhand and thrust ripostes then inverse mouse attackers will simply never be able to learn riposte.


The simple truth is that the non-inverse mouse users are placing a higher value on internal consistency than the general concept of opposite-attack-riposte purely to make riposte easier for themselves at the expense of inverse-attackers.

 

[Harn]

Well you can all rest happy since upper and lower chambers now appear to work against each other interchangeably.

Thanks Armagan and company.

 

[okiN]

Works for me.

 

[Max.Pain]

850 changed the way of chamber-blocking, now overhead blocks both overhead and thrust. The only thing is to try it in battlefield and see how good it works now.

 

[glustrod]

850 changed the way of chamber-blocking, now overhead blocks both overhead and thrust. The only thing is to try it in battlefield and see how good it works now.

just noticed this and I think its great, much more intuitive for me. I think its also logical that you can not riposte with thrusts.

 

[okiN]

Actually, I'm pretty sure thrust also chamber blocks both of the vertical attacks. But it's still quite tricky to do.

 

[glustrod]

ah, ok. anyway, I think its a good solution/improvent.

 

[Knil]

隐藏: Long-ass quote

Swapping overhead and thrust riposte is unfair and inconsistent.

Here's why:

Issue of Unfairness

Currently there are two types of players, those who use inverse attack direction and those who use non-inverse attack direction.

If you use inverse attack direction:

Opponent overhand attacks you
Block:    move mouse UP and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse UP and LEFT click (intuitive: same direction, different click)

Opponent thrust attacks you
Block:    move mouse DOWN and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse DOWN and LEFT click (intuitive: same direction, different click)

Opponent RIGHT-to-LEFT slashes you
Block:    move mouse LEFT and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse RIGHT and LEFT click (counter-intuitive: opposite direction, different click)

Opponent LEFT-to-RIGHT slashes you
Block:    move mouse RIGHT and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse LEFT and LEFT click (counter-intuitive: opposite direction, different click)


If you use mouse direction:

Opponent overhand attacks you
Block:    move mouse UP and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse DOWN and LEFT click (counter-intuitive: opposite direction, different click)

Opponent thrust attacks you
Block:    move mouse DOWN and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse UP and LEFT click (counter-intuitive: opposite direction, different click)

Opponent RIGHT-to-LEFT slashes you
Block:    move mouse LEFT and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse LEFT and LEFT click (intuitive: same direction, different click)

Opponent LEFT-to-RIGHT slashes you
Block:    move mouse RIGHT and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse RIGHT and LEFT click (intuitive: same direction, different click)



If you change riposte so that thrust ripostes thrust, then this will happen:

If you use inverse attack direction:

Opponent overhand attacks you
Block:    move mouse UP and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse DOWN and LEFT click (counter-intuitive: opposite direction, different click)

Opponent thrust attacks you
Block:    move mouse DOWN and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse UP and LEFT click (counter-intuitive: opposite direction, different click)

Opponent RIGHT-to-LEFT slashes you
Block:    move mouse LEFT and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse RIGHT and LEFT click (counter-intuitive: opposite direction, different click)

Opponent LEFT-to-RIGHT slashes you
Block:    move mouse RIGHT and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse LEFT and LEFT click (counter-intuitive: opposite direction, different click)


If you use mouse direction:

Opponent overhand attacks you
Block:    move mouse UP and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse UP and LEFT click (intuitive: same direction, different click)

Opponent thrust attacks you
Block:    move mouse DOWN and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse DOWN and LEFT click (intuitive: same direction, different click)

Opponent RIGHT-to-LEFT slashes you
Block:    move mouse LEFT and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse LEFT and LEFT click (intuitive: same direction, different click)

Opponent LEFT-to-RIGHT slashes you
Block:    move mouse RIGHT and RIGHT click
Riposte: move mouse RIGHT and LEFT click (intuitive: same direction, different click)



You'd be making riposte easier and more intuitive for people who use mouse direction whilst punishing those who use inverse mouse direction.



Issue of Inconsistency

Right now, one ripostes their enemy by using the opposite attack. That's a general rule. As it happens 50% of those ripostes are counter intuitive whichever attack system you use. Both parties suffer equally!

You guys are proposing to make it the same direction for 2 of the attacks only, but remain opposite direction for the other two. It's inconsistent.

Nope it's not inconsistent if they switched stab and overhead chambers because it would mirror how EACH control scheme does their blocking now, which is the BEST option. Either have it mirror blocking or reverse it for all situations.

Actually I just tested it and now chamber DOES mirror blocking so this is fixed... now.

edit: It also seems like opposite work in blocking verticals too so you can chamber with both. Meaning you can chamber a stab with a stab OR overhead and the same for overhead. Testing the other directions right now.

Please avoid double posts and long, unnecessary/unspecific+unspoilered quotes in the future. By the way, the things you're talking about have already been mentioned in the past few posts. -okiN

 

[Jack_Merchantson]

Actually, I'm pretty sure thrust also chamber blocks both of the vertical attacks. But it's still quite tricky to do.

I was able to thrust-block overheads from the tutorial bots consistently before, I have not been able to do it, or even seen it happen, even once since the recent change.