[Suggestion] Chamber blocking

[Qwertyman]

As a Chamberblocker myself i'll say that yes, with practice it can be pulled off with consistency both inside and outside of duels,  in fact its more powerfull outside of duels since nobody expects it,  and even if they do they think "****, this guy can chamberblock- panic!"

Side swing timing is perfect, it needs no tweaking,  stabs are harder, but imo they should be harder-  chambering them with overheads makes sence,  you swing your sword up, colliding with their sword on the way.
chambering overheads on the other hand is stupid,  not only is timing just plain weird, but you seem to stop it with the force or something.  imo overheads should be chambered with another overhead.

my proposed chamberblocking:

-side swings block side swings as normal,  no change.
- overhead blocks stab - no change.
-overhad blocks overhead,  change of direction.
- stab blocks NOTHING.  the animation simply doesnt make sense for blocking any direction,  just leave it as an attack, no chamberblock needed.

EDIT:  to the people who say the reward isnt enough,  i'd say it is.  not only does it give a great surprise attack, which is a free hit to anyone who doesnt expect it or doesnt have lightening reactions,  but it allows you to controll the pace of combat,    even if your opponent is highly skilled and blocks your chambers,  you can vary blocks and chambers to suit your need, keep him on his toes and controll the flow of combat.

 

[Ros]

That's weird, pretty much the only attack I can chamber with usable consistency is a stab, yet people say its the hardest.

 

[ares007]

As a Chamberblocker myself i'll say that yes, with practice it can be pulled off with consistency both inside and outside of duels,  in fact its more powerfull outside of duels since nobody expects it,  and even if they do they think "****, this guy can chamberblock- panic!"

Side swing timing is perfect, it needs no tweaking,  stabs are harder, but imo they should be harder-  chambering them with overheads makes sence,  you swing your sword up, colliding with their sword on the way.
chambering overheads on the other hand is stupid,  not only is timing just plain weird, but you seem to stop it with the force or something.  imo overheads should be chambered with another overhead.

my proposed chamberblocking:

-side swings block side swings as normal,  no change.
- overhead blocks stab - no change.
-overhad blocks overhead,  change of direction.
- stab blocks NOTHING.  the animation simply doesnt make sense for blocking any direction,  just leave it as an attack, no chamberblock needed.

EDIT:  to the people who say the reward isnt enough,  i'd say it is.  not only does it give a great surprise attack, which is a free hit to anyone who doesnt expect it or doesnt have lightening reactions,  but it allows you to controll the pace of combat,    even if your opponent is highly skilled and blocks your chambers,  you can vary blocks and chambers to suit your need, keep him on his toes and controll the flow of combat.

After thinking about it and playing around a bit more with the tutorial and custom battles, I have to say that your proposed suggestions sound good. The thrust already has good utility what with being very fast, long range, and having high priority. Currently, besides a select few weapons, the overhead doesn't really have very good utility. What if it's utility could come with chamber blocking all vertical strikes?

 

[okiN]

I'd prefer the most natural-feeling configuration, namely down blocking down, up blocking up, just like it is on regular parries. Anything else will just feel counterintuitive. Right now I can chamber block horizontally vs the training bots more or less as easily as I can parry, when I'm ready and committed to doing it. But vertically... I just can't do it, ever. It feels so completely wrong.

 

[Mabons]

Also, chamber blocking should be fast enough to stop shield users being able to block that chamber. It happens to some extent now, but I think that is ping difference when it happens.

 

[okiN]

Nah, I don't think chambers should be a 100% guaranteed free hit. That would be even more imbalanced than kickslashing.

 

[Faranox]

I agree with Okin, both in regards to the directional chambering and chambers being blockable. If you can get your sword/shield up quick enough, you should block it. It would add that much more depth to the combat.

 

[Kleidophoros]

If left swing chamberblocks right swing then overhead should chamberblock stab.
The thing is; if i am gonna try to pull a chamberblock i automaticly think of swinging on the opposite direction. If we have 2 different mechanics for same thing it is gonna complicate things in a way my puny brain can't comprehend.

 

[okiN]

No, I'm afraid that doesn't make any sense to me at all. I see a glaring mistake in your reasoning, there.

Left swing chamberblocks right swing because both swings are occurring on the same side, for both fighters. The side on which both attacks take place is different for the two perspectives, but I repeat, from both points of view, the two attacks are on the same side. This makes sense, because it's the same as when parrying. When a swing is coming from your left, you block to your left, and that's what you do while chambering as well.

Now, when it comes to the verticals, then up is up and down is down for both attackers. So when your enemy is launching an overhead (up attack), you also block up, and the same with thrusts and blocking down. That's great, but when you get to chamber blocks, then it suddenly all goes horribly wrong.

There's no reversed perspective between the two fighters, and so if you want to chamber block, you have to chamber in the opposite direction to the one the attack is coming from. And again, unlike on the horizontals, this is the inverse of what you do while parrying. The result is incredibly counter-intuitive.

Edit: to respond to the second point that you added in:

The thing is; if i am gonna try to pull a chamberblock i automaticly think of swinging on the opposite direction. If we have 2 different mechanics for same thing it is gonna complicate things in a way my puny brain can't comprehend.

Basically, I have the same effect, only in reverse. For me, when I think about chamber blocking, we have two different mechanics in play right now. On the one hand, we have the mechanic used for horizontal chamber blocks, where the chambers go in the same directions as the parries. This feels completely natural to me. On the other hand, we have the verticals, where the chamber directions are the reverse of the parry directions. This feels totally wrong, and that's something that my puny mind can't handle.

 

[Jean Plassy]

There's no safer alternatives when the enemy's reinforcement is approaching. Rather than getting overwhelmed, I would like to settle the fight as soon as possible, and chamber-blocking provides that possibility. And in battle mode, people always less concentrated than duelling, a surprise chamber-blocking often works.

The best way to kill enemies when overwhelmed is to axe spam in all directions. With melee ff people will be afraid of hurting their friends and swing cautiously, while you are free to pull all the stunts and exploits that make 2handers so OP'ed.

 

[okiN]

Actually, if you're determined to do it and confident that the enemy isn't going to feint, then it's quite easy to pull off. Tends to catch people by surprise, and can be very deadly. But yes, 2h spam is still often the safer bet.

 

[Kleidophoros]

No, I'm afraid that doesn't make any sense at all. There's a huge and obvious mistake in your reasoning, there.

Left swing chamberblocks right swing because both swings are occurring on the same side, for both fighters. The side on which both attacks take place is different for the two perspectives, but I repeat, from both points of view, the two attacks are on the same side. This makes sense, because it's the same as when parrying. When a swing is coming from your left, you block to your left, and that's what you do while chambering as well.

Now, when it comes to the verticals, then up is up and down is down for both attackers. So when your enemy is launching an overhead (up attack), you also block up, and the same with thrusts and blocking down. That's great, but when you get to chamber blocks, then it suddenly all goes horribly wrong.

There's no inverted perspective between the two fighters, and so if you want to chamber block, you have to chamber in the opposite direction to the one the attack is coming from. And again, unlike on the horizontals, this is the inverse of what you do while parrying. The result is incredibly counter-intuitive.

Brain explode!

I am talking about the way i position my weapon.
If i want to block i go to the opponent's weapon.
If i want to chamberblock i go to opposite side.

And i want to have 1 mechanic for block and chamber block each; either go to weapon or away from it.

 

[okiN]

Brain explode!

Heh. Did you see the addendum I made to that post after you edited yours?

I am talking about the way i position my weapon.
If i want to block i go to the opponent's weapon.
If i want to chamberblock i go to opposite side.

And i want to have 1 mechanic for block and chamber block each; either go to weapon or away from it.

Right, I agree entirely, except that I think you should go to the enemy's weapon in both cases. But either way, that's not how it works right now!

As it is, when you're chamber blocking horizontally, you need to go to the enemy's weapon, but when you're chamber blocking vertically, you need to go away from it (or vice versa, if your attack directions are inverted in settings). It's a nightmare!

 

[Kleidophoros]

No i just saw it.
I have hope; 2 of us can still reach others level if we work together!

Okay then, we have reached such a point that i have no choice but to employ by awesomesauce paint skillz which will surely spoil your future interwebz experience alas don't be discouraged you may even reach my skillz some day!


Lo and Behold!

隐藏

What i am saying is;
"As it is, when you're chamber blocking horizontally, you need to go to the enemy's weapon, but when you're chamber blocking vertically, you need to go away from it (or vice versa, if your attack directions are inverted in settings). It's a nightmare! "
I don't think it is true and current setting makes perfect sense; you go to teh weapon for block and away from it for chamberblock.

 

[okiN]

Visual aids? Two can play at that game! Here's a diagram to illustrate why what you're saying simply isn't true! That's not how the game works!

隐藏: Fear the MSPaint!

Horizontals top, verticals bottom. Sword is weapon position. Black arrow mouse movement, red arrow inverse mouse movement. A attacks, D defends.

How it is:

On the parries, you go to the weapon with mouse movement. Simple.

On the chambers, with mouse movement as the setting, you look right to launch a right attack, and chamber an attack on your right. You go to the weapon with mouse.
But you look down to launch a down attack, and chamber an attack coming at you from above. You go away from the weapon with mouse. Not simple!

If you have inverse mouse movement, you look left to launch a right attack, and chamber an attack on your right. You go away from the weapon with mouse.
But you look up to launch a down attack, and chamber an attack coming at you from above. You go to the weapon with mouse. Not simple!

What I want:

On the chambers, with mouse movement as the setting, you look right to launch a right attack, and chamber an attack on your right. You go to the weapon with mouse.
And you look up to launch an up attack, and chamber an attack coming at you from above. You go to the weapon with mouse. Simple!

If you have inverse mouse movement, you look left to launch a right attack, and chamber an attack on your right. You go away from the weapon with mouse.
And you look down to launch an up attack, and chamber an attack coming at you from above. You go away the weapon with mouse. Simple!

Surely you have to see what I'm saying, here!

 

[Kleidophoros]

I see what you say and raise you this:

You sire is a liar and a manipulator! You are using the inverted  movement for only blocker to make your case look innocent!

Blocking is a game mechanism. It works like you say; you go to weapon regardless of horizontal/vertical/up/down attack.
Chamberblock is a different game mechanism. To work it you go to opposite of weapon; check out your horizontal chambers. Are we cool here?
Good, now for vertical chambers i propose we keep the mechanism which is go to the opposite of weapon.

Like i said block and chamberblock are 2 different mechanisms and should work differently.
BUT you can not make chamberblock have 2 different mechanics; right now it works as opposite. what you are proposing it keep opposite with horizontal but change it when it comes to vertical.
Don't you be confusing me mister! I want to have 1 way for every mechanic.

Surely you have to see what i am saying here!

(If it helps you can imagine that i stab to chamber block your overhead attack while you are lifting that sword up not when you are bringing it down.)

 

[ares007]

currently, the horizontal chamber blocks go to the same side whereas the vertical chamber blocks go to opposite sides.

 

[Kleidophoros]

I am talking about how i react to the weapon coming to me; i go to it for block, i go opposite for chamberblock.

And please don't give me realism here; i am talking about how the game works differently in different situations, how i am supposed to react differently to different situations;

to block left i pull mouse right
to chamber block left i pull mouse left
to block stab i pull mouse down
to chamber block stab i pull mouse up

 

[ares007]

Then you will get killed on the horizontal attacks

 

[Kleidophoros]

how and why?