Sturigans is more weak after update?

[Prison Mike]

sturgia really needs some work. i have a save that i started after the 1.3 patch and let me tell you stugia is really a hard to traverse. they have the hardest terrain plus for some reason they are targeted from all flanks from the get go. the cities are too far away from each other and recruiting is a nightmare. northern empire, khuzait, vlandia and battania, all waring with sturgia since the beggining. it makes no sense. the idea of shutting the khuzait side would really make it a bit better, BUT they need to rearrange the cities and towns as well.

 

[Maximum997]

btw. In 1.3 Game still doesnt detect a snow, so they are still the facrion with no bonus.

 

[Androme1]

One more ad hominem attack from you and I'll report you to the mods.

And I'll go through your forum post history and report every single one of your ad hominem attacks of which there are alot, how does that sound?

 

[Androme1]

If anything, that list shows you guys should be complaining about Aserai being weak

And yet we don't see Aserai being completely wiped off the map within months of the game beginning. Clearly there's multiple factors at play here and not just party templates. Aserai functionally only borders two factions, technically three. Sturgia borders 4: Vlandia, Battania, Northern Empire, Khuzaits. One could argue that there's more factions that also border 4 others, but those factions also do not suffer other geographical issues such as extremely stretched out geography and a weak troop tree/party template.

It is the combination of multiple factors that leads to Sturgia being the weakest faction in the game.

Obviously party templates should be balanced for all the factions, not just for Sturgia. But clearly the party templates being lackluster for Aserai doesn't result in them being the weakest faction, so clearly there are more problems plaguing Sturgia than just the party templates.

I don't think he said anything about geography.

You should check out his posts in other threads discussing the fact that Sturgia is the weakest faction in the game. He is completely denying everything despite being presented with overwhelming evidence by every single other person partaking in this topic on the forums. The reason the likes of him must be completely and wholly repudiated is because they give off an incorrect impression of the game to the developers, potentially resulting in the developers not realizing that there are certain balance issues that need dealing with. But I am not too worried about that, I think the sheer amount of people talking about these issues serves as a warning enough.

 

[Krugach]

There's the threat on the redit somewhere where somebody tested unit tiet to tier. Sturgian Veteran Warriors and Shock Troops beat every other equivalent in the game. Only tier 5 Imperial sword infantry could fight Veterans in to a draw. And that was before Sturgian stats were fixed. It was posted couple of times here as well.

Doesn't matter if there aren't enough to fill an army as fast as the enemy.

 

[Krugach]

AI have some deep problems with hot it behaves, but that's not exclusive to Sturgia. AI is the same for all cultures and lords. Btw, devs said that they fixed starving in 1.3.0 so I am surprised to hear that.

As for mounted troops, it's just 30% bonus and AI armies doesn't recruit too many cavalry anyway. Vlandian army made of 20% cavalry against Sturgian army made of 5% cavalry will have advantage of just 4.5%. That's negligible difference.

As for geography, parts of Northern Empire and parts of Battania have actually harder terrain and while geographic spread is true, it's not exclusive to Sturgia. Aserai and Khuzaits are spread out as well. On the other hand these realms have one of their border completely shielded, so while central realms re more geographically compact, they also face enemies on all sides. So there a pros and cons. You can really say that it's only Vlandia that have huge advantage over everybody else in the campaign.

All main line cavalry of all cultures starts at T4, with the exception of Khuzaits and noble lines are not common enough to make an impact in the oweral numbers. Again, you can say that only Kuzhaits have advantage here. But even with 50% cavalry, you are still talking about autocalc advantage of just 10-15%.

Ai doesn't recruit much cavalry. Yes a 15% bonus. So they win every equal numbers battle AND they have far more recruitment centres and less heavy terrain. Khuzaits are not spread out. Pick a zoom on the map and count the number of locations near Makeb compared to Tyal(or any Sturgia city.)
Khuzait armies are half cavalry and they are the biggest threat to Sturgia.

 

[hruza]

Ai doesn't recruit much cavalry. Yes a 15% bonus.

Nope, because AI doesn't run with template armies around.

So they win every equal numbers battle AND they have far more recruitment centres and less heavy terrain.

No they don't. Because there's still the random factor. And there are no equal numbers battles either.

Khuzaits are not spread out. Pick a zoom on the map and count the number of locations near Makeb compared to Tyal(or any Sturgia city.)

I picked zoom and found Varnoapol and Sibir. They have the same number of locations nearby as Makeb.

Khuzait armies are half cavalry and they are the biggest threat to Sturgia.

They're not half cavalry. Half recruits more like. The real advantage of Kuzait armies is their speed. And Khuzaits are as big a threat to Sturgia as they are to any other faction they border.

You can pick any faction in the game and find something to complain about.

 

[DrDragonlance]

What is the 40% recruit number?

Is that when the game starts or after a Lord losses a battle?

 

[Maximum997]

What is the 40% recruit number?

Idk. Devs siad then before lords had 70% of t1 t2 (dont remember numbers), and in 1.3 they changed it to only 40% of t1 t2

 

[Qingl]

Nope, because AI doesn't run with template armies around.



No they don't. Because there's still the random factor. And there are no equal numbers battles either.



I picked zoom and found Varnoapol and Sibir. They have the same number of locations nearby as Makeb.



They're not half cavalry. Half recruits more like. The real advantage of Kuzait armies is their speed. And Khuzaits are as big a threat to Sturgia as they are to any other faction they border.

You can pick any faction in the game and find something to complain about.

i see your some reply of other post, i am sorry but i do not like you, you don't realize what is balance

 

[Razdv]

Started a new game in latest 1.3 beta build to do nothing and wait how the game is going on globally.
1. Sturgia declared peace with Vlandia in few months, noone didn't lost any fiefs.
2. After some time a war between Sturgia and Western Empire started.
3. Sturgia successfully sieged 2 castles and their war was over.
4. No other countries from the start changed their borders at all. There some wars, people getting prisoned, attempted sieging etc.

I'll try to conduct more tests, but yesterday Sturgia was in very good stance. Seems that we got some tweaks already.

 

[Qingl]

Started a new game in latest 1.3 beta build to do nothing and wait how the game is going on globally.
1. Sturgia declared peace with Vlandia in few months, noone didn't lost any fiefs.
2. After some time a war between Sturgia and Western Empire started.
3. Sturgia successfully sieged 2 castles and their war was over.
4. No other countries from the start changed their borders at all. There some wars, people getting prisoned, attempted sieging etc.

I'll try to conduct more tests, but yesterday Sturgia was in very good stance. Seems that we got some tweaks already.

why you can not test in custom? you can alter code to select which segeant you want to fight, you can choose as sturgia or fight with sturgia and you will find they always failed. i always say their man is not as good as story, this is the keynote of my post

 

[Razdv]

why you can not test in custom? you can alter code to select which segeant you want to fight, you can choose as sturgia or fight with sturgia and you will find they always failed. i always say their man is not as good as story, this is the keynote of my post

I can, but I don't see major issues with actual manual combat. Yes I'm aware of worst t4 spearmen, but I think that it is because of spear combat design currently, not because of this unit type. Yes, I'm aware of lack of lowlvl cavalry, wrong AI behavior of sword/javelin cavalry (it is a bug, I reported it already, they just don't know how to hit moving straight forward/backward target). Sturgian archers are good, they are lightly armored and running faster, they almost as fast as fians, they have 2 quivers also. I'm using mostly sturgian troops and I'm crushing enemies on realistic and challenging.
Problem is in AI vs AI simulations on global map, where Sturgia lost everything and everytime usually before 1.3 beta. I hope it changed. I doubt that simulation combat is equal to manual combat, it is all about numbers.

 

[hruza]

OK, I did few tests last night observing what Sturgia is doing. And it's basically down to how that initial war with Vlandia goes (Sturgia starts at war with Vlandia).

Sturgia do have a problem with Vlandia. But it's not due to bad terrain, lack of cavalry, poor economy or any other nonsense you guys have been inventing. It's because Vlandia starts with two more lord parties and one more fief compared to Sturgia. Yes, you didn't bother to check the most obvious fact: Vlandians starts simply with more troops then Sturgians.

It's basically about the first decisive battle. Sturgia tends to collect huge army at the start of the game (about 1000 strong) and then go besiege some city in the middle of the Vlandia on the other side of the map. If that happens, Vlandians swarm them with small armies, wait for their main army to arrive and cut them down.

Now armies AI start with are not like armies that you will encounter later in the game. Starting AI armies have much higher tier troops. Therefore who wins that first decisive battle gets large advantage, because while enemy can recover their armies by recruiting, those will be now composed of mostly conscripts. And it's significant advantage because now smaller armies of side that won that first battle can catch on and destroy even larger armies of the side that have lost. Simply because smaller armies are faster. So it's bit of a snowball effect.

The side that won the first decisive battle will loose this advantage gradually as their armies get attrition in battles and sieges and possibly due to desertion bug, but by the time some balance is restored, they usually took few enemy fiefs and war ends.

Of course it's random, it's not like AI does the same thing every time and so if Sturgians manage to win that first decisive battle, they tend to do well also in the rest of the game. Why? Because Sturgians are not weak. Instead Vlandia is really strong. And there are actually much weaker kingdoms then Sturgia: Batania and Western Empire have even less lord parties and less fiefs then Sturgians. It's simply fact that Sturgians starts at war with Vlandia and are bound to take the first hit.

Vlandia: 25 parties, 16 fiefs
Sturgia: 23 parties, 15 fiefs
Batania: 17 parties, 14 fiefs
W. Empire: 17 parties, 13 fiefs

As for Sturgians not having cavalry. Vlandia do start with significant cavalry advantage, but it's still not anywhere near template spawns. At the start of the game Vlandia have about 25% of cavalry but then it goes down to about 10-15% once those starting game armies gets attrited and normal recruitment kicks in. It of course doesn't help Sturgians, but it's not a decisive factor. Pure numbers are.

I did only couple of runs (6) as it's time consuming finding AI armies and then following them around watching what they actually do and how are they composed. Feel free to do the same and post here your observations, instead of guessing and aggressively attacking people who don't share your feelings.

Testing done on v1.2.1

 

[Razdv]

Vlandia wasn't issue for me because I'm usually starting to hunt their lords right then I have about 50 ppl party. They don't have any time and opportunity to deal with Sturgia because they have major threat from me. Only if I'm going somewhere to sell my loot, usually in battanian cities )
But I agree that everything is about numbers in simulations

 

[DrDragonlance]

Are there any Sturgian villages that produce horses?

I noticed this was a problem when trying to get cavalry. There were almost no horses in what was left of Sturgia

 

[hruza]

Are there any Sturgian villages that produce horses?

I noticed this was a problem when trying to get cavalry. There were almost no horses in what was left of Sturgia

You can get horses in Sturgian towns. You don't need to buy them in villages that produce them directly. Of course if you want good price, go to some Aserai village.

 

[DrDragonlance]

Last I checked a town had 2 horses and zero war horses.

Hence my question was about villages.

 

[hruza]

Last I checked a town had 2 horses and zero war horses.

Hence my question was about villages.

I see. Well no, Sturgians don't start with any horse producing villages. There are hover couple in Batania not too far away if you need to resupply.

 

[hruza]

wrong AI behavior of sword/javelin cavalry (it is a bug, I reported it already, they just don't know how to hit moving straight forward/backward target).

What bug, can you describe it in more detail?