Sturgia - Make up your mind about this faction.

[Yaroslav]

If the game is set in 1084 (and if we ignore that Calradia has its own history), then the Norman/Varangian influence for names and such would be actually quite minor, even among the boyars. It wrinkles my nose a little that in one of the old devblogs, they name princes like Vladimir the Great, Yaroslav the Wise, Svyatopolk and Vseslav the Seer as influences and then give the grand prince of Sturgia the name "Raganvad".

Absolutely right! Very disappointed in this faction. Talewords presented this faction as Kievan Rus, but in the end we see an absolutely Scandinavianlike faction, the Nord faction with all culture attributes! But after all, Kievan Rus is a Slavic state and everyone expected to see the faction with slavic culture like Vaegirs. Is this some kind of unlucky joke from Talewords? Then I'll do it too! [Snipped]

 

[Duh]

This will be your one and only warning before permanent removal - talk of piracy is entirely prohibited on this platform.

 

[lolbash]

Absolutely right! Very disappointed in this faction.

Did you ignore the very first sentence of his post?

If the game is set in 1084 and if we ignore that Calradia has its own history),

He says that if Bannerlord is planning to be realistic, then blah blah blan but that is only a big if, which we know is wrong as Calradia is not Europe.

You ignore the very important quote that says that Bannerlord is not a historical simulator, then get mad at Taleworlds [snip] because it does not conform to your historical accurate expectations?

 

[CaptainLee]

Absolutely right! Very disappointed in this faction. Talewords presented this faction as Kievan Rus, but in the end we see an absolutely Scandinavianlike faction, the Nord faction with all culture attributes! But after all, Kievan Rus is a Slavic state and everyone expected to see the faction with slavic culture like Vaegirs. Is this some kind of unlucky joke from Talewords? Then I'll do it too!

Actually, in last year's blog they clearly stated it was based on the Kieven Rus and western Scandinavian influences, and Jomsvikings and Finnish tribes. The complaint seems to be based on that it isn't purely Kieven Rus, which it was never stated to be.

talk of piracy is entirely prohibited on this platform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_9_November_1822

CoMe aT mE MoDs

 

[wormydowg]

Spoiler

talk of piracy is entirely prohibited on this platform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_9_November_1822

CoMe aT mE MoDs

lol

 

[CaNpoG]

I'm well late to this conversation probably but I'm under the impression that the point here wasn't whether Sturgia is a mixed faction or not, but whether it has been made much more nordic than originally intended due to backlash from the aforementioned "nordaboos". The sturgians seemed cool and all with a more original approach (having a mixed set of cultures in one faction), with what seemed to be major slavic influence with splashes of nordic culture and troops. I like the nords, don't get me wrong, but a cool, unique faction shouldn't be watered down to make it another Kingdom of Nords.

Tbh, I don't really know if the footage someone referred to was just from a certain lord's party which could be a nordic lord in the Sturgian faction, which could mean that they just happened to show only a small portion of the roster.

 

[Gurkhal]

After finding some interests in the history of the Slavic peoples I must say that the Nord elements in Sturgia don't bother me at all. Sure it will lean heavier on the Norse side of things but what's the problem? We still get Slavs even if they need to share the stage, but so what? The Kievan Rus were, to my knowledge, only the inspiration and its not a historical game with focus on historical minutia. And there will most likley be Slavocentric mods out soon after release to make Sturgia more Slavic.

 

[Blade123]

I remember how happy I was when Talewords announced that Kievan Rus became the prototype of Sturgia and that it would be the ancestors of the Vaegirs. And then how I became disappointed and felt deceived when I saw the first concrete data about this faction. Everyone expected that it would be Vaegirs with even brighter elements of Slavic culture (Ancient Russia), but it became an absolutely Nordic faction with a clear predominance of Scandinavian culture (names, heraldry, even blue color). I don’t know that it’s triple Normanism or just the fat trolling of Russians and all Slavs from Talewards, but I know one thing: you deceived and disappointed a lot of people.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

This indeed has been an everlong lasting frustration among the slavic community.
And I personally understand the concerns.

But still I would like a dedicated person from Slavic community or someone that knows Russian history well to explain and make a comparison between historical  Kievan Rus and Sturgia we saw up until now.

According to my limited research on google these guys werent a pure slavic isolated group. I may be confusing things but it seems some part in their history they demanded Scandinavians to come and rule them.
Even the word Rus was probably name of a Scandinavian tribe.

So in my opinion from the looks of it one not matching thing is the architecture. It is more Scandinavian then Kievan Rus. Though on the other hand civilian clothes and warrior armors seem pretty accurate.

My last words on the matter ; since we are going to get a naval dlc and the island of the nords will probably be included in there along with the faction and there is a big slav community eager for their culture to be represented and that even though devblog stated Aserai are based on pre islamic Arabs yet gave them islamic institutions and stuff which means they are quite flexible  with their original inspiration,  heck if I were TW, I would make these people happy.
So along with changing architecture(fitting for real Kievan Rus) renaming some lords and kings redrawing some banners(maybe not so fitting for real Kievan Rus since they had Scandinavian nobles but who cares ? Pre-islamic arabs also didnt have Ghulam/Mamluks or curved swords yet Aserai has them)

 

[MountAndMemeButterlord]

Absolutely right! Very disappointed in this faction. Talewords presented this faction as Kievan Rus, but in the end we see an absolutely Scandinavianlike faction, the Nord faction with all culture attributes! But after all, Kievan Rus is a Slavic state and everyone expected to see the faction with slavic culture like Vaegirs. Is this some kind of unlucky joke from Talewords? Then I'll do it too!

Actually, in last year's blog they clearly stated it was based on the Kieven Rus and western Scandinavian influences, and Jomsvikings and Finnish tribes. The complaint seems to be based on that it isn't purely Kieven Rus, which it was never stated to be.

talk of piracy is entirely prohibited on this platform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_9_November_1822

CoMe aT mE MoDs

The Skolderbroda and Sons of the Forest minor factions are based on the Jomsvikings and Finnic tribes respectively, the faction is based on the Kievan Rus. This might have changed with all the whining for a generic viking faction though.

"Now, the Nords were a favourite faction in Warband, and we know a lot of people are drawn to Vikings - the blood eagles, the shipboard funeral pyres, the berserkers eager to join the feasting at Valhalla. Sturgia is Nordic-influenced but it's not really a Viking state: the Nordlands are off of the map (for the present, anyway) and they wouldn't really form the kind of proto-feudal kingdom that the Bannerlord factions represent. But, if players want to have a west Scandinavian-style play experience, the raiding, the companions, the ring-swords, two-handed axes, Valsgarde helmets, hauberks and raven banners will all be there. Among the Sturgian minor factions are the Skolderbroda, a mercenary brotherhood based on the (possibly legendary) Jomsvikings of the Baltic. The Finnic tribes meanwhile are represented by the Sons of the Forest, a semi- nomadic clan that practices swidden slash-and-burn agriculture in the depths of the woods. At any rate, there should be plenty of allies and plenty of enemies for players who want to win their inheritance with the blade, the Rus way, in this cold land of deadly opportunity".

https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/39

 

[MountAndMemeButterlord]

We still haven't seen these factions in their entirety, far from it. I have my hopes that they have stuck with some of their original concepts. Kievan Rus, Normans, Byzantines and Pre-Islamic Arabs were all awesome and unique choices for faction inspiration, we do not see them in many movies or books let alone video games. Maybe the Aserai use scimitars and the Sturgians army look like vikings (maybe because we don't know much about Slavic warfare among the Rus?) but there is still so much room to break from the mold, maybe the Aserai still have desert bedouins roaming and raiding their lands and maybe Sturgia is still a mercantile powerhouse.

 

[hruza]

But still I would like a dedicated person from Slavic community or someone that knows Russian history well to explain and make a comparison between historical  Kievan Rus and Sturgia we saw up until now.

Well, there was no "Kievan Rus" to begin with. Kievan Rus is modern name of the historical period, it's not name of a real country. Something like "Victorian Britain" or "Napoleonic France". Name of the country was "Ruskaya zemlya" or "Land of the Rus". That was common practice back then, Franace was not called France, it was called "Kingdom of Franks" and so on.

According to my limited research on google these guys werent a pure slavic isolated group. I may be confusing things but it seems some part in their history they demanded Scandinavians to come and rule them.
Even the word Rus was probably name of a Scandinavian tribe.

According to a legend, they did. After they kicked them out to begin with. But that legend, we don't know how true it is. It's not unprecedented however, it was common to invite foreigner as ruler all the way to High Middle Ages. It had certain benefits: foreigner did not had any local ties and thus did not favor any local factions. He was fair arbiter so to speak. Plus by not having local ties and support, hope was that he will be weak and open to the pressure by local strongmen.

What we know is that Scandinavians were settling around gulf of Finland and along Dnieper river long before supposed foundation of Rus. They seems to have been interested in trade route in to Baghdad and Byzantium.

The name itself comes from Scandinavian word for "rovers" and in Finish language means literally "Swedes". Fins were closer to Scandinavia then Slavs and thus probably came in to contact with Scandinavians earlier. Slavs could then borrow name from Fins. Or they could have adopted it independently, just like Fins did. Imagine Scandinavian ship landing on the shore and locals asking: "who are you"? And the Scandinavians answer: "rowers". And so it stuck.

As for the early Russian state, it was originally based around Ladoga, where there already were some old Scandinavian settlements. According to a legend, from the 5 founding tribes, those that invited Rus to rule over them, 2 were Slavic, 2 Finic and 1 either Finic or Baltic. Slavs themselves were relatively late arrivals in to that area and came there not long before Scandinavians themselves. In fact some areas there were settled by Slavic people only century or two after foundation of Rus.

From Northern Russia, Rus then moved down on Dneper towards Middle East and Byzantium, were the riches and profits were. At first they took Kiev from Chazars, then they tried to move capital even closer -in to Bulgaria, but had to return to Kiev after been attacked by Chazars in the East. It is at this period that Rus became predominantly Slavic, as majority of the tribes in the area were Slavs. However Russian elite kept distinctive identity and ties to Scandinavia for few centuries. Sort of like Macedonians in Egypt after death of Alexander. They were however tiny minority, which eventually assimilated in to Slavic majority.

So in my opinion from the looks of it one not matching thing is the architecture. It is more Scandinavian then Kievan Rus. Though on the other hand civilian clothes and warrior armors seem pretty accurate.

There was no major difference between Scandinavian and Slavic architecture. It was rather primitive, based on wood as a material and made for harsh climate.

 

[Emogma]

Or this is just a universe with a different cultural and linguistic history.

 

[guavpezka]

What is more important in our much beloved game IMHO, it's colourful and culturally distinctive factions, don't you agree? Sturgia seems lacking in this department. Ditch slavic or scandinavian influence whatsoever, for all I care, but make factions memorable

 

[Svarogorije]

Hello everyone.

From the footage we've seen, it seems Taleworlds seems to be degenerating Sturgia, yet again, into a loosely defined mixed faction with mixed origins rather than a clearly defined and unique culture.
I suspect I know why this is, and it is probably because so called "nordaboos" have been complaining on the forums, they are an extremely tiny yet extremely loud group of people who are very passionate about their obsession: norse culture/vikings. Do not let their complaints get in the way of CONSISTENT writing.
Watching some of the (I know, unfinished), gameplay from Gamescom has me worried. Half the troops of Sturgia are named -something-Huskarl, or Huskarl-something-. Huskarl this, Nordic that, make up your mind Taleworlds, will Sturgia be a half-measure to try to satisfy nordaboos when clearly your initial intent was to have it be a Kievan Rus inspired faction with influences from surrounding cultures? Or will it be a purely slavic inspired faction, or a purely norse inspired faction? Why would a sturgian village volunteer "upgrade" into a nordic huskarl if it is supposed to be a Kievan Rus inspired faction?

Considering how long you're taking developing this game, please polish it properly and do things consistently and in a beliveable manner.

Thank you.

Edit: I want to clarify one thing, I think one of the best ideas ever was to have Sturgia clearly be a Kievan Rus inspired faction, with subfactions within it that are instead inspired from other cultures, this is a great idea. But when you "mix" stuff with eachother, such as terminology such as "Druzhina" and "Huskarl" within the same faction troop tree, it becomes unbeliveable because a druzhina and a huskarl are two different things from two different cultures. Sturgia, Kievan Rus inspired, Skolderbroda, Norse inspired, Sons of the Forest, Finn inspired, keep stuff clearly defined and seperated that way, it's for the best.

I love how calmly devs just ignore these threads lol.
Please prove me wrong.

 

[Roy1012]

What is more important in our much beloved game IMHO, it's colourful and culturally distinctive factions, don't you agree? Sturgia seems lacking in this department. Ditch slavic or scandinavian influence whatsoever, for all I care, but make factions memorable

I agree, though there's always going to be factions that people just don't like, no game is perfect. Sturgia is the new Khergits.

 

[hruza]

I agree, though there's always going to be factions that people just don't like, no game is perfect. Sturgia is the new Khergits.

I like how you call yourself "people" in attempt to give your subjective personal opinion at last some weight.

 

[Monsor]

I don't understand the discourse about all of this. It's a fictional game inspired by history like previous individuals have stated. I understand that Slavs and Scandinavians want their culture represented in this Europe-like continent, but exceptions are made for a fictional story and entertaining gameplay. Lolbash previously stated that it helps Sturgia to have this mix of culture to match the military might of other factions. I see this move made by Taleworlds to be a smart one. It avoids making two small factions, a predecessor to the Vaegirs and Nords for each, but a single stronger faction that has ties to both of its successors.

Honestly I can't see the issue in mixing the two cultures together.

 

[ratschbumm]

Honestly I can't see the issue in mixing the two cultures together.

This is not mixing, it is recombining. Sturgia's culture is chimera. In order to mixing, lesser elements must be used.

 

[Falwick]

I prefer kievan rus inspired sturgia while there are another Viking inspired faction, called Nords.