Im not sure if this has been asked before but isnt there some kind of weird stun when shield get struck by 2h or polearm? I take a heavy hit on my shield and I click to attack back but nothing happens, is this intended? The stun occur if I right block a left attack?
Its a stupid mechanic, if Im honest. Not only do shields break after a couple hits but we also have to cope with stuns. Lovely. I guess I gotta go 2h/polearm and embrace even more archer spawns - or even better, only play archers
Here are some examples of stun happening (with and without a shield) where I attempted to attack after every block:
I don't know if they've made efforts to reduce or remove it. If they have, it might have managed to resurface somehow. But it seems like it was an intended feature, and it could just be that they want to keep it.
Here's some past feedback on the issue:
(Jun 16, 2020)
Aprikosenmann: Block delay is basically a punishment for converting an attack into block. Like in warband when a heavy weapon hits your small 1h sword you had a long delay before you could attack. Or in your words: not responding input. You basically had to double block a lot. And btw I don't like block delay.
jon01: That was a feature I hated in Warband whenever it happened. If Bannerlord is based all around that kind of thing, no wonder so few people are enjoying its combat. The result of it feeling like your game suddenly stopped working was horrible. I'm not sure if it was RNG-based, but even if it was a consistent mechanic, it's still an incredibly unfun feature to have to deal with.
Lord_Rich: It wasn't RNG based either, it depends on relative weapon weights and requires a held attack. Hold attacks do increasing stun and damage up to a maximum at around 0.6 seconds and then fall off to a higher than initial level ... Stunning was an area that I thought should have been kept as it was a good mechanic ... Unfortunately they have just messed things up unknowingly as they did with much of the rest of the game.
--
(Oct 24, 2020)
Roadpork: Sometimes I feel delay after I did a block. I guess it's the stun. Similar to WB, when you blocking heavier weapons sometimes you get stunned. If so, how do we know if it's a block stun or its just a network delay? They look the same.
jon01: There are lighter metallic sounds when normal attacks are blocked, but when a "stronger" attack is blocked, it plays a heavier metallic sound, which might not just be random. You can see that it stunned the weapon, because it created one of those moments where both players are staring at each other and doing nothing. And I don't think there was any visual indication. The sparks are held off for other features. Most people will probably find out the weapon is stunned when they're clicking the mouse and the game isn't doing anything, which is a really annoying feeling.
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(Feb 23, 2021)
Soul_jak: Completely remove block stun from two handers. This (at least to me) is very rng feeling and sometime feels like lag simply because ur character will not swing right away after a block stun which has no visual or audio que hinting that u are stunned, the annoying thing about this is two handed weapons have very quick swings so in a fight with two handers all u can do is block a lot before getting a swing off.
Mushbeast: I actually messaged NIN3 yesterday with almost this exact issue word for word, and he explained that all weapon produce a stun based on their weight vs the weight of your weapon. It's nothing specific for 2 handers, but I guess naturally the weight difference is much more pronounced. This is negated completely if you pull off an active block and it is always less if you're using a shield.
Mushbeast: Anyway I agree completely that it just feels like you've lagged when it happens, and NIN3 said they will look at having some clearer audio cues. I think that needs to happen for most combat mechanics such as active blocks and what-not, it's pretty impossible to tell when they've happened especially in the heat of battle.
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(Jun 13, 2021)
Greedogre: Why is manual block stun still there? After several month break, I find today it's still there? Why, what purpose does it serve instead of breaking combat flow? Do devs actually play their game?
Hoonii: proves this game is very poorly done/balanced and absolutely %100 rewards acting like a ******** ***** all the time very poor design choices, prolly why the game failed miserably
Imperator: Definitely something that should be talked more about.
--
(Nov 26, 2021)
Danny5: I think some of these are intentional like the stun for example, cause the game mechanics is trying to be realistic.
Krisee: Realism should give way for good game design. But I don't think this was intentional, since in the patch of 12 November there was nothing mentioned about these combat changes.
mrArgentum: I thought that my internet or vpn was lagging, but it's tw's brain is lagging as always.
Olaf The Cruel: And I thought I was messing up with counter blows. I have exactly same issues, feels so off and wrong. **** realism, it makes the mechanics feel bad and they should change it back again.
Krisee: In our eyes this is just a bug that needs to be fixed.
Horked: These strange delays have been here for long time ... I assume its some known alpha issue ... Its maybe not a delay as such but just times when me clicking mouse doesnt compute, nothing happens, first I thought it was my mouse, its more often now since latest patch, usually when crowd fighting and lots of stuff is going on, its like server doesnt get my input.
Even if it's meant to be realistic, the outcome doesn't look realistic at all. When blocking a heavy attack in real life, your body doesn't just remain bolt upright and frozen in place (while your arms cease to work). Blocking a heavy weapon with a light one without some kind of effect might be unrealistic, but at least it won't look buggy or laggy, and it owes to a much less annoying gameplay experience.
Even if it's meant to be realistic, the outcome doesn't look realistic at all. When blocking a heavy attack in real life, your body doesn't just remain bolt upright and frozen in place (while your arms cease to work). Blocking a heavy weapon with a light one without some kind of effect might be unrealistic, but at least it won't look buggy or laggy, and it owes to a much less annoying gameplay experience.
There isnt any stuns or stagger when blocking with a light 1h weapon, I dont think? Im a shielder so this is not something Ive noticed, but then Im a terrible blocker I cant seem to see the 1h no shield stuns on the video and also its much easyer to feel that actually see. I think it would be awesome if there was a little "gameplay annoyance" when fighting 1h vs a heavy weapon, because this would be realistic, try block a halbard overhead with a carpenters hammer. I dont think stuns is very realistic when blocking with a shield, if my opponent was using a weapon that was massive enough to actual stagger or stun me, it would be so big that she wouldnt be able to swing it. Yeah, the keywords here is "less annoying gameplay experience"
Gameplay > Realism
There is a stun, but while using one-handed weapon without a shield you are most likely "active blocking". "Active blocking" is when you block right before opponent is hitting you and you block correctly (right swing with left block etc.). "Passive blocking" is when you hold your block too long before the attack. "Active block" reduces the stun time (especially against two-handed weapons) and lets you counter attack faster. This also works for shields, but you don't need to block "correctly" to block swings. This will result to a longer stun and more damage to your shield. You can hear a different sound cue and see a different animation when you are "active blocking".
But shields still get demolished by two-handed weapons. It's just a matter how fast.
There is a stun, but while using one-handed weapon without a shield you are most likely "active blocking". "Active blocking" is when you block right before opponent is hitting you and you block correctly (right swing with left block etc.). "Passive blocking" is when you hold your block too long before the attack. "Active block" reduces the stun time (especially against two-handed weapons) and lets you counter attack faster. This also works for shields, but you don't need to block "correctly" to block swings. This will result to a longer stun and more damage to your shield. You can hear a different sound cue and see a different animation when you are "active blocking".
But shields still get demolished by two-handed weapons. It's just a matter how fast.
So just to confirm I understand correctly, the active blocking apply to shields as well? I get the increased damage if blocked "wrong", thats fair enough I suppose, np with that. But Id have a problem with active blocking on shields; in a situation where you fight archers and infantry enemies, holding up shield is what you do, this would result in longer stun if shield struck?
So just to confirm I understand correctly, the active blocking apply to shields as well? I get the increased damage if blocked "wrong", thats fair enough I suppose, np with that. But Id have a problem with active blocking on shields; in a situation where you fight archers and infantry enemies, holding up shield is what you do, this would result in longer stun if shield struck?
Here are some examples of stun happening (with and without a shield) where I attempted to attack after every block:
I don't know if they've made efforts to reduce or remove it. If they have, it might have managed to resurface somehow. But it seems like it was an intended feature, and it could just be that they want to keep it.
Here's some past feedback on the issue:
(Jun 16, 2020)
Aprikosenmann: Block delay is basically a punishment for converting an attack into block. Like in warband when a heavy weapon hits your small 1h sword you had a long delay before you could attack. Or in your words: not responding input. You basically had to double block a lot. And btw I don't like block delay.
jon01: That was a feature I hated in Warband whenever it happened. If Bannerlord is based all around that kind of thing, no wonder so few people are enjoying its combat. The result of it feeling like your game suddenly stopped working was horrible. I'm not sure if it was RNG-based, but even if it was a consistent mechanic, it's still an incredibly unfun feature to have to deal with.
Lord_Rich: It wasn't RNG based either, it depends on relative weapon weights and requires a held attack. Hold attacks do increasing stun and damage up to a maximum at around 0.6 seconds and then fall off to a higher than initial level ... Stunning was an area that I thought should have been kept as it was a good mechanic ... Unfortunately they have just messed things up unknowingly as they did with much of the rest of the game.
--
(Oct 24, 2020)
Roadpork: Sometimes I feel delay after I did a block. I guess it's the stun. Similar to WB, when you blocking heavier weapons sometimes you get stunned. If so, how do we know if it's a block stun or its just a network delay? They look the same.
jon01: There are lighter metallic sounds when normal attacks are blocked, but when a "stronger" attack is blocked, it plays a heavier metallic sound, which might not just be random. You can see that it stunned the weapon, because it created one of those moments where both players are staring at each other and doing nothing. And I don't think there was any visual indication. The sparks are held off for other features. Most people will probably find out the weapon is stunned when they're clicking the mouse and the game isn't doing anything, which is a really annoying feeling.
--
(Feb 23, 2021)
Soul_jak: Completely remove block stun from two handers. This (at least to me) is very rng feeling and sometime feels like lag simply because ur character will not swing right away after a block stun which has no visual or audio que hinting that u are stunned, the annoying thing about this is two handed weapons have very quick swings so in a fight with two handers all u can do is block a lot before getting a swing off.
Mushbeast: I actually messaged NIN3 yesterday with almost this exact issue word for word, and he explained that all weapon produce a stun based on their weight vs the weight of your weapon. It's nothing specific for 2 handers, but I guess naturally the weight difference is much more pronounced. This is negated completely if you pull off an active block and it is always less if you're using a shield.
Mushbeast: Anyway I agree completely that it just feels like you've lagged when it happens, and NIN3 said they will look at having some clearer audio cues. I think that needs to happen for most combat mechanics such as active blocks and what-not, it's pretty impossible to tell when they've happened especially in the heat of battle.
--
(Jun 13, 2021)
Greedogre: Why is manual block stun still there? After several month break, I find today it's still there? Why, what purpose does it serve instead of breaking combat flow? Do devs actually play their game?
Hoonii: proves this game is very poorly done/balanced and absolutely %100 rewards acting like a ******** ***** all the time very poor design choices, prolly why the game failed miserably
Imperator: Definitely something that should be talked more about.
--
(Nov 26, 2021)
Danny5: I think some of these are intentional like the stun for example, cause the game mechanics is trying to be realistic.
Krisee: Realism should give way for good game design. But I don't think this was intentional, since in the patch of 12 November there was nothing mentioned about these combat changes.
mrArgentum: I thought that my internet or vpn was lagging, but it's tw's brain is lagging as always.
Olaf The Cruel: And I thought I was messing up with counter blows. I have exactly same issues, feels so off and wrong. **** realism, it makes the mechanics feel bad and they should change it back again.
Krisee: In our eyes this is just a bug that needs to be fixed.
Horked: These strange delays have been here for long time ... I assume its some known alpha issue ... Its maybe not a delay as such but just times when me clicking mouse doesnt compute, nothing happens, first I thought it was my mouse, its more often now since latest patch, usually when crowd fighting and lots of stuff is going on, its like server doesnt get my input.
Even if it's meant to be realistic, the outcome doesn't look realistic at all. When blocking a heavy attack in real life, your body doesn't just remain bolt upright and frozen in place (while your arms cease to work). Blocking a heavy weapon with a light one without some kind of effect might be unrealistic, but at least it won't look buggy or laggy, and it owes to a much less annoying gameplay experience.
In Warband, as some of those you have quoted say, stunning was quite deliberate and useful. A heavier weapon had to be held for a short period, after which it would stun the opponent's block and force them to block twice in a row. I liked this because it was consistent and readable - if someone with a big weapon holds, and you have a small weapon, get ready to block twice. It also enabled high level teamplay in matches, as competent players could switch to their spear, hold an overhead and stun an enemy to try and get quick kills on isolated opponents. It wasn't OP, as bringing a 2h spear out made you very vulnerable and was much worse for teamfighting if you got caught with it out (unlike in BL where people with 2hs can zoom away from combat if they need to).
In Bannerlord, there may be a weight formula at work but I am convinced that stances play a part. I have duelled with a 2h sword against other players with a 2h sword and been affected by a stun from random normal swings for seemingly no reason. When playing with a 1h you are not always stunned on every hit, but some of them seem to stun you and as far as I can tell it is not predictable in advance and is only possible to react to once it has happened. This makes all gameplay involving 2h weapons incredibly frustrating and gimmicky. There is nothing fun about players with long 2h weapons S/A/D keying away while (seemingly) randomly stunning players that have to chase after them.
I doubt this is high up on TW's change list for MP but it definitely makes the game extremely frustrating whenever a 2h weapon is involved.
Here's a short video demonstrating that this also happens between two heavy weapons of equal weight:
Danny5: I think some of these are intentional like the stun for example, cause the game mechanics is trying to be realistic.
Krisee: Realism should give way for good game design. But I don't think this was intentional, since in the patch of 12 November there was nothing mentioned about these combat changes.
mrArgentum: I thought that my internet or vpn was lagging, but it's tw's brain is lagging as always.
Olaf The Cruel: And I thought I was messing up with counter blows. I have exactly same issues, feels so off and wrong. **** realism, it makes the mechanics feel bad and they should change it back again.
Krisee: In our eyes this is just a bug that needs to be fixed.
Horked: These strange delays have been here for long time ... I assume its some known alpha issue ... Its maybe not a delay as such but just times when me clicking mouse doesnt compute, nothing happens, first I thought it was my mouse, its more often now since latest patch, usually when crowd fighting and lots of stuff is going on, its like server doesnt get my input.[/SPOILER]
If I recall correctly, what I am referring to here is a block delay/animation bug not created by weapon difference, but by preclicking after perfect blocks.
They just got to make this stun more consistent/predictable as that seems to be the main problem (The stun you get which this OP refers to.). RNG type combat is no good.
There isnt any stuns or stagger when blocking with a light 1h weapon, I dont think? Im a shielder so this is not something Ive noticed, but then Im a terrible blocker I cant seem to see the 1h no shield stuns on the video and also its much easyer to feel that actually see. I think it would be awesome if there was a little "gameplay annoyance" when fighting 1h vs a heavy weapon, because this would be realistic, try block a halbard overhead with a carpenters hammer. I dont think stuns is very realistic when blocking with a shield, if my opponent was using a weapon that was massive enough to actual stagger or stun me, it would be so big that she wouldnt be able to swing it. Yeah, the keywords here is "less annoying gameplay experience"
Gameplay > Realism
One of the quotes in the feedback mentions how a developer confirms it's a feature and partly explains how the stun effect works (with 1h weapons, not just shields). Keep in mind that I tried attacking after each block in the video, so any time the character's upper body is just motionless doing nothing while staring at the enemy, it's the feature in effect. It happened many times.
In Warband, as some of those you have quoted say, stunning was quite deliberate and useful. A heavier weapon had to be held for a short period, after which it would stun the opponent's block and force them to block twice in a row. I liked this because it was consistent and readable - if someone with a big weapon holds, and you have a small weapon, get ready to block twice. It also enabled high level teamplay in matches, as competent players could switch to their spear, hold an overhead and stun an enemy to try and get quick kills on isolated opponents. It wasn't OP, as bringing a 2h spear out made you very vulnerable and was much worse for teamfighting if you got caught with it out (unlike in BL where people with 2hs can zoom away from combat if they need to).
In Bannerlord, there may be a weight formula at work but I am convinced that stances play a part. I have duelled with a 2h sword against other players with a 2h sword and been affected by a stun from random normal swings for seemingly no reason. When playing with a 1h you are not always stunned on every hit, but some of them seem to stun you and as far as I can tell it is not predictable in advance and is only possible to react to once it has happened. This makes all gameplay involving 2h weapons incredibly frustrating and gimmicky. There is nothing fun about players with long 2h weapons S/A/D keying away while (seemingly) randomly stunning players that have to chase after them.
I doubt this is high up on TW's change list for MP but it definitely makes the game extremely frustrating whenever a 2h weapon is involved.
Here's a short video demonstrating that this also happens between two heavy weapons of equal weight:
I've got nothing against shield stunning by an overhead with a polearm held for one second. I've done it with strangers and no teamspeak on public servers. Like Azan said, if they added an animation (i.e. something like the kicked animation) to getting shield stunned this way, then that might have been a good addition. It would have looked clearer and made it less obscure.
As for being weapon stunned by a 2h blade, I don't like the feature, but the saving grace in Warband is that 1h vs 2h doesn't happen as often. You don't come across it in Battle because 1h swords are the meta and 2h blades are a rare choice. In Duel both opponents will have similar weapons. And in Deathmatch you can more easily afford both 1h and 2h, so you can pull out your own 2h if you're up against one. In Bannerlord, however, it's more likely to be an issue (at least in TDM/Siege) because of the class system, and I think there are more variables to make the stun effect happen, including with shields.
I think it would be awesome if there was a little "gameplay annoyance" when fighting 1h vs a heavy weapon, because this would be realistic, try block a halbard overhead with a carpenters hammer. I dont think stuns is very realistic when blocking with a shield, if my opponent was using a weapon that was massive enough to actual stagger or stun me, it would be so big that she wouldnt be able to swing it. Yeah, the keywords here is "less annoying gameplay experience"
Gameplay > Realism
Oh man, after saying that, I would vote for you even in the presidential elections, damn it? My enjoyment and my loyalty to this game is mainly due to its realism. And that is why to all supporters of any casualization of the game, no matter what goals they are guided by (including the limitation of Rambo tactics), I say - Get your hands off Realism?
Ok, so Ive been on Siege and TDM for a couple days now, almost full days and all I can say is: Haha, the stun is much too great
Edit: I guess I have to add reasoning. If a recruit picks up a polearm, she can spam my shield so fast that I dont get a chance to time her attacks, so active blocking is utterly irrelevant. The only way to get to counter attack is to either chamber or move out of range - which is difficult when fighting a recruit...
If there should be a stun or not, I have no opinion about, but the way stuns is currently working on shields is, lets say very funny.
Devs gotta be trolling
Thanks for all your insightful replies
@Aliaksandr ? but always gameplay above realism. Too much realism will ruin gameplay.
Agree here too. But personally for me, limiting realism to be acceptable only for the purpose of really significant improvement/preservation of the gameplay.
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