11sparky11
Master Knight
bobross419 said:
But you would use cavalry and infantry to greater effect than just infantry.
Strategy
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Master Knight
But you would use cavalry and infantry to greater effect than just infantry.
bobross419
Sergeant
11sparky11 said:
Not really... the only time the enemy force even gets close to a 100 man marksmen squad is in huge battles against predominantly cavalry. You can get through a 400 man army with only losing 1 or 2 guys with full marksmen... You just can't do that with Infantry and Cavalry.
And if you're referring to Swadians... then really why bother with infantry at all? Knights just steam roll everything...
11sparky11
Master Knight
bobross419 said:
Jeez, first you say you want a realistic Napoleonic type feel, now you realize your wrong, you try to back it up by sating that you always win with all marksmen so whats the point using cav, which defeats the purpose of attemping a Napoleonic feel...
People these days. 
jackx
Sergeant at Arms
You are aware that you're talking to two different individuals, and that they make different arguments in favour of their use of all-musketeer armies...
An all-marksman approach in my experience requires them to be moderately effective at melee, just in case something does get through or the AI for once does not obligingly wander into your field of fire...
An all-marksman approach in my experience requires them to be moderately effective at melee, just in case something does get through or the AI for once does not obligingly wander into your field of fire...
bobross419 said:
Wrong, i noticed their cav SUCKS in siges... 300 losses to enemys 100
Captain Alatrise
Recruit
I've been using primarily musketeers and harquebusiers. Lining them up into 3 lines, having them hold fire until i give the command (F3 F2, then F3 F2 again to fire). The only trouble is when the enemy have a lot of cavalry that charge straight ahead and hit my line before I get them into position. Even then it usually works, especially if you can find a hill and have a clear line of fire. I've had about 20-25 musketeers shred a cavalry charge of winged hussars without a single casualty.
It's difficult to accurately reflect the tactics of the time, because massed volleys weren't really the norm until the 18th century. usually, pike and shot formations were made up of musketeers in the center flanked (sometimes just on the sides, sometimes on the corners) by pikemen. The first line of musketeers would fire, then file down cleared lanes to the rear of the formation to reload, and the newly cleared front line would fire and move, etc.
So unless you've macroed the controls to be able to form lines like that and give highly specific movement orders, you're not going to have a chance to really make an accurate pike and shot formation, which is a pity.
But you can do a basic approximation of it. The nice thing is, the inaccuracies of the game (muskets that reload too quickly, are too reliable and accurate) mean that using linear Napoleonic tactics is actually highly effective, the only things missing are bayonets.
It's difficult to accurately reflect the tactics of the time, because massed volleys weren't really the norm until the 18th century. usually, pike and shot formations were made up of musketeers in the center flanked (sometimes just on the sides, sometimes on the corners) by pikemen. The first line of musketeers would fire, then file down cleared lanes to the rear of the formation to reload, and the newly cleared front line would fire and move, etc.
So unless you've macroed the controls to be able to form lines like that and give highly specific movement orders, you're not going to have a chance to really make an accurate pike and shot formation, which is a pity.
But you can do a basic approximation of it. The nice thing is, the inaccuracies of the game (muskets that reload too quickly, are too reliable and accurate) mean that using linear Napoleonic tactics is actually highly effective, the only things missing are bayonets.
My new strategy:
Gather all you musket inf. Put them at 5 men deep column, and make them follow you. Stop near enemy (closer what he shoots, so you will inflict some casualties) then hold (no need to press button) and order them to "all fire" then toggle fire at will on, and keep advancing. Realistic, cool, and pretty effective. (1-2 ranks deep moves less well, so even when you hold line with over 100 men, put them in 3-5 men deep formation)
Gather all you musket inf. Put them at 5 men deep column, and make them follow you. Stop near enemy (closer what he shoots, so you will inflict some casualties) then hold (no need to press button) and order them to "all fire" then toggle fire at will on, and keep advancing. Realistic, cool, and pretty effective. (1-2 ranks deep moves less well, so even when you hold line with over 100 men, put them in 3-5 men deep formation)
bobross419
Sergeant
Ruler of Calradia said:
3+ ranks has a lot of dudes in the back rank not shooting I've noticed. I've found a good range for initiating volley fire is when I can get two hits in a row with my own gun. With decent troops you'll be picking off a couple with each volley at that range and closer.
bobross419 said:
They shoot for me.. All men shoot all the way to 4th rank. If you in front of you troops, they dont usually shoot nearby.
+ if you have difficulties to make them shoot, but them in hill! (not cuite top) that way even 5th rank can fire!
2th+ I noticed that they use some kind system where unit shoots, fulls back, and new one comes to front at shoot them. NOTE first rank wont move, as they are crouched
bobross419
Sergeant
Ruler of Calradia said:
Thanks for the tips. I'll give them a try with my 200 man marksmen army and try standing behind them. I usually array on top of the hill so that might be part of the issue... never even thought of standing on the slope lol.
Captain Alatrise
Recruit
Another tactic which works well is rippling your fire down your lines. Essentially, firing by file or firing by platoon. There are commands in the firing subsection for firing by right flank, center and left flank (F3 F3, F3 F4, and F3 F5, respectively). In doing so you can control your firing so you won't waste a volley by firing at a few horsemen but you also won't have to have all your men fire at will, either.
The drawback is that it takes a bit of micromanagement to do it right, and you won't be doing much fighting on your own.
The drawback is that it takes a bit of micromanagement to do it right, and you won't be doing much fighting on your own.
Captain Alatrise said:
This is good tactic true! If enemy has cav, they usually charge in center of you lines, so you can order only middle rank fire.
About rank fire, i think it works this way: When you first 2 lines have taken the shot, rear rank comes forward and shoot, then repeat as long as you give commands. Somehow that i think :hmm:
jackx
Sergeant at Arms
It doesn't magically make your firearms better, but it can be very effective nonetheless.
It's most effective at medium ranges against dense groups of targets, where there'll be few misses and little overkill, and the heavy casualties inflicted in an instant can cause a significant number of the enemy to rout.
The less accurate and powerful musketeers tend to benefit a bit more from a concentration of fire, though they may need assistance in mopping up the remaining enemy afterwards, who's then often reduced to small groups of skirmishers whom they lack the individual accuracy to deal with swiftly.
At close range, let the AI fire at will to avoid unnecessary overkill - the AI's targetting isn't affected by the smoke at all, so while you're unable to see anything, it'll engage individual targets just fine.
Fire control in general is also useful in preserving ammunition and preventing the AI from wasting shots as targets are just coming into view - it'll fire at the first visible pixel otherwise - as well as making sure your musketeers don't get caught in mid-reload by a charging enemy. Ideally, you'll want them to fire just as the enemy cav impacts your pike, and just a few seconds before enemy melee makes contact, to take away as much momentum from those attack as possible.
It's most effective at medium ranges against dense groups of targets, where there'll be few misses and little overkill, and the heavy casualties inflicted in an instant can cause a significant number of the enemy to rout.
The less accurate and powerful musketeers tend to benefit a bit more from a concentration of fire, though they may need assistance in mopping up the remaining enemy afterwards, who's then often reduced to small groups of skirmishers whom they lack the individual accuracy to deal with swiftly.
At close range, let the AI fire at will to avoid unnecessary overkill - the AI's targetting isn't affected by the smoke at all, so while you're unable to see anything, it'll engage individual targets just fine.
Fire control in general is also useful in preserving ammunition and preventing the AI from wasting shots as targets are just coming into view - it'll fire at the first visible pixel otherwise - as well as making sure your musketeers don't get caught in mid-reload by a charging enemy. Ideally, you'll want them to fire just as the enemy cav impacts your pike, and just a few seconds before enemy melee makes contact, to take away as much momentum from those attack as possible.
Glycerius
Sergeant at Arms
I simply gather as much heavy cavalry up and send them in first. Reiters, Winged Hussars, Estate Cavalry and others like them are great for assaults and defence of fortresses too.
I started out trading using the investigate prices options, and bought gunpowder wherever it was cheap, and sold it to castles. After a long while I took Smolensk and with its good array of villages, it makes a great base for a warlord who can therefore easily afford the monetary price of peace, usually 40000 or so. It was Polish. Moscow had been taken by them too. St Basil's looks nice. The lack of kingdoms as in Warband means the handy independent warlord method of simply buying peace from any lord who is not intent on attack, makes conquest easier. The updates are annoying, having to click through them.
I started out trading using the investigate prices options, and bought gunpowder wherever it was cheap, and sold it to castles. After a long while I took Smolensk and with its good array of villages, it makes a great base for a warlord who can therefore easily afford the monetary price of peace, usually 40000 or so. It was Polish. Moscow had been taken by them too. St Basil's looks nice. The lack of kingdoms as in Warband means the handy independent warlord method of simply buying peace from any lord who is not intent on attack, makes conquest easier. The updates are annoying, having to click through them.
