Storing loaded muskets

[Leberecht Reinhold]

You are not allowed to move, double reloading time, I dont see the clearly advantage here.

I understand the advantage in a typical doublegun as you can reaload in a secure position, then fire both surpressing the enemy. But in a LB? First you have to move around to pick a collection of guns, dropping and picking carefully in positions (difficult under fire, you have to look at cover). Then repick the first guns you dropping for picking the ones from the dead and you have dropped in your positions. Then, making a double-strange gunning. I dont see a clear advantage that needs to be changed

 

[therifleman]

I can't believe how butthurt people get over the whole "double-gunning" issue. Its really ridiculous. The second a guy has a gun on his back people start crying like babies.

It is really so hard to adjust the mod so that a player cannot hold two firearms at the same time? If there is one thing that makes this community ****, it is the sheer amount of whining.

 

[Deofuta]

I can't believe how butthurt people get over the whole "double-gunning" issue. Its really ridiculous. The second a guy has a gun on his back people start crying like babies.

It is really so hard to adjust the mod so that a player cannot hold two firearms at the same time? If there is one thing that makes this community ****, it is the sheer amount of whining.

With the fact that doublegunning is near universally looked down upon, I am going to trust that there is a good reason that it is not coded as such. It is entirely possible that doing something like that is impossible, or at least not possible without effecting something else.

 

[Plazek]

Whether or not it is easy is irrelevant.

The example I gave is not how it would be used, that was just a step by step explanation of how it is logistically possible, for Herb's benefit, as he was maintaining it meant you were limited to 2 shots. Obviously you would reload in cover and unleash a quick double volley at some point when things are looking grim. This discussion as to whether a rule needs to be made or not because its difficulty means it naturally won't happen is clearly false and this is shown by experience of the last regimental linebattle.

Again I reiterate whether or not it is easy or not is irrelevant. People have done it, they did it in the last linebattle. It either needs to be within the rules or against them. So that instead of confusion about it we have a simple rule.

PS Deofuta I recommend you get used to a certain amount of animosity when people have differing opinions, this is after all, Taleworlds. 

 

[therifleman]

I really don't understand the point of "outlawing" the tactic you describe.

It is completely impractical for line regiments to do this since they fire in volleys almost all the time. That would mean every man would have to have a loaded musket at his feet in order for the whole regiment to fire in syncronized volleys. No point in grabbing a loaded musket at your feet if you still have to wait for everyone else to reload their musket before you fire.

The only feasible situation in which this tactic could be used is with skirmishers. And its still impractical. You may as well keep one musket  rather than having to constantly drop one to load the other just so you can get that extra shot off.

 

[Deofuta]

PS Deofuta I recommend you get used to a certain amount of animosity when people have differing opinions, this is after all, Taleworlds. 

I know, I know. It just erks me. I go to the WoW general chat for for animosity, I expect better from my M&M

Also, far,far to many people use the term 'troll'.

On topic, I would have to imagine the only way to get a clear cut answer here is for Vincenzo to swoop in and tell us. Consensus may not happen.

 

[AgentGB]

Herbie why are you arguing this, you don't even pull these stunts dude? Well atleast haven't seen you do so, ill admit i actually don't like this, and do see it as a loophole to double gunning, despite how tedious it is.

Battlefield looting is fine in imo, the respwn eliminates all picked up weapons at the beginning of a round anyway, but i prefer to try and master a class that you play frequently with, so you can rely on your set kit. But i have no quarrel wih looting,  just wouldn't like to be cheaped out by some fellow getting around the double gunning rule

 

[hherlev]

Personally I think it should be allowed, any sort of looting and picking up weapons. Its realistic. No one in the course of a battle said to each other "You cannot pick up that musket, its cheating!"

Double gunning should also be allowed im my opinion. I won´t do it if its against the will of the community ofc. But its my opinion that the rule should be altered.

 

[IrishPraetorian]

I'm sorry, I'm afraid my capacity for dealing with people engaging in flame wars, exchanging broadsides of insults and ranting endlessly on has been exhausted for this week. Please try again next week.

 

[Royal_Marine_Machine]

Herbie why are you arguing this, you don't even pull these stunts dude? Well atleast haven't seen you do so, ill admit i actually don't like this, and do see it as a loophole to double gunning, despite how tedious it is.

I just don't think that adding more rules is the best way forward.

Any rule to ban this would also ban the sort of epic moment when there's not many of you left defending a position, and you're going around picking up fallen comrade's muskets hoping they're loaded to fire at the enemy surrounding you - something that imo is fair, and realistic.

This falls into the same category as firing at officers - shouldn't be banned outright, but if you do it, you lack braincells. The only advantage this gives you is one last shot just before the enemy gets to you - which you can get anyway if you just time your volleys correctly, and given the organisational skill needed to actually get a regiment to do this while at no point carrying two weapons it should be allowed. It'd be like saying "You guys are too good at shooting, this shouldn't be allowed.".

Double gunning is different - Muskets are heavy enough at the best of times, it'd be hard to carry 2 & be as effective as you are with 1, and also, unslinging a musket takes more time IRL than in game.

 

[Plazek]

I'm not for a ban, or any pointless rules for that matter, either. That makes no difference as to whether or not a ruling as to it being acceptable or not is a good idea. It has been an issue already therefore I predict it will be an issue again, and opinion as to its acceptability is quite obviously divided.

 

[WilsonMG]

If it makes you a target of the admins, why do it?  I think regardless of whether or not it's acceptable is almost a moot point.  The bottom line is the behavior is unusual, and is more than likely going to draw unwanted attention from an admin.  In the heat of the moment you might grab the second gun before dropping the first, and most likely as Murphy's Law would have it, that will be the exact moment an admin happens upon you, even if you "played by the rules" all along and made an honest mistake.  An admin trying to keep an eye on a couple hundred players already has his hands full, let alone if he's distracted by trying to play as well.  It just adds to the possibility an issue will arise.

Why must people always try and skirt the rules as much as possible?  Why does everyone have a problem with just playing the mod?  Personally, I never pick up or drop anything, there's no need.  I find the loadouts the classes come with to be more than sufficient.  If you're constantly needing to pad your abilities, maybe you should just learn to play better or find a unit that can support you and compliment your own abilities.

 

[Sahran]

I don't see anything wrong with this. To have a second gun means you'll need to be encamped at a spot where someone else dropped their's (which would imply being dead).

If you carry two guns to transport them to a location? No, that's not kosher. But I often will when we finished off a group of enemies and are going to march onto the next (in a non official round) see if I can pick up a loaded gun...even if that often takes longer than loading it myself.

 

[RoyaleWithCheese]

This tactic is keeping a spare loaded musket at your feet, thereby allowing you to fire your gun, drop it, pick up another and fire again. Technically doing this you are never holding more than one gun, so technically it is within the rules. Is it against the spirit of the linebattle to do this, should rules be formed to combat it, should it be permitted? Either way a ruling ought be given.

In my opinion, the "tactic" to which you refer is nothing more than a blatant violation of the spirit and purpose of the double gunning rule, even if it doesn't constitute a violation of the rule itself. I think it should be against the rules.

 

[Smissen]

This tactic is keeping a spare loaded musket at your feet, thereby allowing you to fire your gun, drop it, pick up another and fire again. Technically doing this you are never holding more than one gun, so technically it is within the rules. Is it against the spirit of the linebattle to do this, should rules be formed to combat it, should it be permitted? Either way a ruling ought be given.

In my opinion, the "tactic" to which you refer is nothing more than a blatant violation of the spirit and purpose of the double gunning rule, even if it doesn't constitute a violation of the rule itself. I think it should be against the rules.

I'm against the spirit of picking weapons of the dead while in a line what performs doublegunning.
It is also unrealistic because I never read something that they picked up others musket the whole
time. But make it permittable that somebody reloads your musket and give it to you and shoot and
then give it back that an other can reload your musket again,like they did at Fredricksburg.

"Zonder Vreesch Ende Blaem"Smissen

 

[Sniper1138]

My 2 cents, for what it's worth:

In my personal opinion, the tactic would be more of a spur of the moment thing than a deliberately planned thing (IE: "I fired a round, oh hey a freshly loaded musket, I'll drop my current musket and pick that one up instead" as oppossed to "Now if I wait here with this musket at my feet I can get two shots instead of one!").  It's simply too inconvenient to run forward, drop a musket, find another musket, run to the previous position, make sure both weapons are loaded, and then wait for the enemy so you have a chance of firing two shots rather than one in quick succession.  The inconvenience of it and the rareness of the moment where it will be useful make it a valid tactic rather than a cheap strategy.

On the other hand, I can understand how this could be seen as a violation of the double-gunning rule as, at its heart, the double-gunning rule was put into place to prevent players getting kills by virtue of volume of fire, effectively turning the match into a scavenger hunt for muskets, and then double or even triple-gunning your way to the most kills (as kills seem to be the goals of most "Ramboers").  That goes against the spirit of Mount and Musket itself, and so I can understand why some would be concerned, but in no way should there be a ban on merely picking up another weapon.

I'm a member of the 1st St. Petersburg Narodnoe Opolcheniye, and one of the main parts of our strategy in battle is to loot our enemy corpses for weapons.  We often spawn with but a pike and a hatchet, and so to make ourselves an effective fighting force at range, we have to loot and fight with these fallen weapons.  This ban will severely hamper our ability to react and fight in long-term engagements and will ultimately address a very uncommon occurence that allows for one burst of two shots, rather than the consistent two shot burst allowed by straight up double-gunning.

In Short: This sort of usage of two weapons is highly inconvenient and effective only in uncommon situations, and a ban on picking up weapons in an attempt to stop this from happening is just outright silly, and unnecessarily hampers the abilities of Russian Opolcheniye, Artillery and Cavalry of all nations, and musicians, to fight alongside regular line infantry when they have to.

 

[Kator Viridian]

I don't think picking up weopons will be banned, just the fact that using 2 guns in any way shape or form even obscuring the double gun rule by dropping one infront of yourself to pick up immdiatly.

 

[Colonel_McCandless]

Guys, lemme just say one thing-

Its a fricking game........

I agree with most of you on part of your arguments and believe Double Gunning is a Acceptable in some cases concept.

EG- You start in a regiment of 20, you fire a couple of volleys and another regiment, you lose 5 guys they lose 12, you charge, they pick up loaded muskets, fire at the charge and then switch to fire at you as you are about to hit them
Not Acceptable
Picking up a second gun and shooting it at someone who's about to stab you is dishonourable and downright stupid.
It's stupid because, why waste the first shot in the first place and it's also dishonourable because its a cheap strategy of getting out of melee. Now me, I suck at melee, ask the guys at the 1st Opolcheniye, most of my men can take me out easy, I make do with it and loot a better melee weapon, not grab a second gun so I can shoot them as they hit me.

Second EG- You are fighting as a Dragoon regiment, 12 strong, you charge a 20 man Infantry Regiment and lose half your men, you ride off and are unhorsed, the rest of your men ride back home, you pick up a musket, load it and don't drop your carbine, you reach a group of artillery and defend them against cavalry while firing only your musket and using it for melee.
Totally acceptable
If a guy is happier stabbing with a musket than swinging a sword, so be it, if he only fires one gun, so be it. No-one ever said you couldn't loot and no-one ever said you HAD to specialize in the weapon you spawned with, I fight as the Officer rank and Suck, I mean absolutely Fail with it, I feel much safer with a big pointy stabbing thing than a sword, so I usually grab a musket or pike and hold onto my pistol for either an obscure reason of my own or I forget.

Please do not troll this thread any longer peeps

 

[Zah]

Picking up a musket from a corpse should be alright 

 

[TarEldamir]

Picking up a musket from a corpse should be alright 

Stealing them from living people is more manly.