Stop Suggesting New Features.

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I can't think of one game that was released in full release that was unfinished. I don't mean bugged or crappy, mind you, but unfinished as in there were features missing that were going to be added later according to official statements from a developer. Also game changing features are usually added for free only by small indie teams, larger game companies will release DLCs instead. What games did you have in mind when you wrote that?

Every paradox game (even the ones they just publish like Cities Skylines), every total war game after Rome 2, and almost every AAA open world loot box nonlinear title where they add significant features to keep people interested. It seems to be the dominant model now. The entire media industry is pivoting from 1 time purchases to neverending subscription models for everything, and that includes video games.
I also think it's short sighted to only consider a game "unfinished" if the developers say so. They can say literally anything. I would for example consider Warband (along with practically every other game I've modded) to be unfinished because a lot of its intended features are nonfunctional or disabled. There is literally unfinished code in the API.


I don't think TW is in it just for the money, or they would have just released the game in full release with some nominal bug fixes and called it a day.

Every company is in it for the money, and the PR counts as part of that. For example free range eggs cost more to make, but overall they can make more money because pretending chickens are sentient allows you to charge more money. Or for example you can buy some stupid starbucks coffee where 5% of the price goes to some charity, but really that percentage is there as a tax to sooth the guilt of overspending middle class coffeedrinkers, giving them an edge over other less """ethical""" coffee shops. In modern business everything is cynical, everything is systemic, there are no morals and the only real goal is to keep the company growing.

Even though Callum isn't explicitly lying, his job is to make Taleworlds more money than they pay him, and that comes indirectly by managing expectations and mitigating backlash. A company just releasing a game and going radio silence would also be in it for the money, they just wouldn't be very good at it. I almost want to applaud Callum for how effective his simple "don't expect much" statements were.
 
suggesting new features is very good time to do it in EA, once game full, normal, it's done and too late, but few case they working add new features but risker new bug, better now features then less bug and same time easier to work on bug because work with code along side rather than later and add then break old code, ect.

Suggesting new feature now rather than later.
 
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Dr-Shinobi

4a3YhSq.png

Now watch this drive... at 1:40

 
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People like you who make threads like this boggle my mind.

TW is capable of its own decision making process.

Do you think the Dev's boot up the forums in the morning and go "WHELP SMATTLEPATTLE WANTS A WOUND SYSTEM, GUESS THATS WHAT IM WORKING ON TODAY!"

You realize they have a suggestion subforum right?

What do you think you are accomplishing here?

The whole point of Early Access is to solicit community input on the game that they had the faith to pay for in an incomplete state.

There is NEVER, EVER, EVER a reason to end discussion. People are adults - they can tune in and out as discussion suits them. Censoring people out of insecurity is just so mind-boggling stupid, even in something as trivial as a video game forum.
 
Every paradox game (even the ones they just publish like Cities Skylines), every total war game after Rome 2, and almost every AAA open world loot box nonlinear title where they add significant features to keep people interested. It seems to be the dominant model now. The entire media industry is pivoting from 1 time purchases to neverending subscription models for everything, and that includes video games.
I also think it's short sighted to only consider a game "unfinished" if the developers say so. They can say literally anything. I would for example consider Warband (along with practically every other game I've modded) to be unfinished because a lot of its intended features are nonfunctional or disabled. There is literally unfinished code in the API.

Every company is in it for the money, and the PR counts as part of that. For example free range eggs cost more to make, but overall they can make more money because pretending chickens are sentient allows you to charge more money. Or for example you can buy some stupid starbucks coffee where 5% of the price goes to some charity, but really that percentage is there as a tax to sooth the guilt of overspending middle class coffeedrinkers, giving them an edge over other less """ethical""" coffee shops. In modern business everything is cynical, everything is systemic, there are no morals and the only real goal is to keep the company growing.

Even though Callum isn't explicitly lying, his job is to make Taleworlds more money than they pay him, and that comes indirectly by managing expectations and mitigating backlash. A company just releasing a game and going radio silence would also be in it for the money, they just wouldn't be very good at it. I almost want to applaud Callum for how effective his simple "don't expect much" statements were.

Well, I can see where you are coming from, and there are certainly corporations that are like that (Starbucks as you say, Amazon also comes to mind) but I have to respectfully disagree on generalizing that to every company in existence, and specifically to TW. I am not saying that TW is a charity, but I don't think that they are as cynical as you picture them. Mexxico regularly shows up on the forum to talk with people, and they have been working through the weekend to fix critical bugs. Nobody was really expecting them to do that, and you only do that kind of thing if you are passionate about your job.

I also personally know people who work in small companies/startups who do it not because of the pay, which is lower than what they could get somewhere else, but because they genuinely believe that what they are doing has an impact and they find it fulfilling. Not everything in life is about money, come on now let's be real. At least not for everyone.
 

Dr-Shinobi


yeah couldnt stop laughing when i saw it and had to settle down because it was a tight game. to be frank i didnt expect to win it and was about to go retreat but then i saw a gap and took a leap of faith in the Greek Gods ^^
 
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Mexxico regularly shows up on the forum to talk with people, and they have been working through the weekend to fix critical bugs. Nobody was really expecting them to do that, and you only do that kind of thing if you are passionate about your job.

I'm not saying that individuals never care about their work and are only in it for the money, but that corporate organisations as a whole are oriented towards self-proliferation. I'm sure there is some insane person who is enthusiastic about starbucks for example, but their job requires them to think and act more like a robot in service of the wider, amoral company interests than anything else.

Also it is extremely dangerous to talk about "passion" in corporate jobs. Higher ups and HR exploit this all the time. Someone working through the weekend may in part be because they really like the game, but you have to remember they're in the midst of a hierarchical organisation that has control over whether they get paid or not. There is a subconscious power dynamic whether anyone is aware of it or not. The moment someone has a higher-up they have to answer to, the idea of pure free will within the company vanishes, even if the higher up never explicitly tells them what to do. People in development companies (not just the big ones) routinely work themselves to suicide because of this dynamic. It's less passion, more coercion.

Not everything in life is about money, come on now let's be real. At least not for everyone.

Again, corporations like taleworlds are made up of lots of people and have to "behave" a specific way in order to survive. Even if everyone in a company is a strictly principled moral agent who works for minimum wage, if the company doesn't behave cynically and for self-interest it won't survive. Even charities operate using this logic.
 

xdj1nn

Knight
WBWF&S
Hey, man. All i'm doing to trying to get people to shift priorities for whats best for the game at the moment. And responding to everyone who is worth responding to. I'm not silencing people i'm not "running around in circles pointlessly" i'm just suggesting stuff to the community. And why would i suggest to the devs how to do their work? I'm not talking about the devs and how they handle stuff i'm talking about people who suggest things to them. The devs know what they are doing, but i feel that many people in the community don't. You don't have to listen to me, i'm not forcing anyone to do anything.
I didn't mean to offend you, I'm just saying that they know what they're doing, so for the louder some people go on some things, it doesn't change for them. They have a team taking care of everything separatly, it's highly unlikely that the community, making even the dumbest of suggestions, create any sort of problem for them. The issue here is that you are asking people to be amateur game developers when suggestions do not really need to be educated ones, nobody has to know what they are doing, the point here is to have people speak their minds... Their leymen opinions...
 
People don't realize what "Early Access" means. It's not even a full game. Of course Warband might have more features then Bannerlord because Warband is a full game.
I think you completely missed my point. Vanilla Warband was a bare bones game that didn't offer much besides go here fight this, go there fight that. The fact that this game actually feels like it offers less in the way of features is a little stunning (even though it's in EA - meaning it's in an unfinished state).

I don't know if you've ever played Warband, but to say "of course Warband might have more features..." as if that's ok just because this game is in EA is (insert expletive) ridiculous in my mind.


like OP has already said, it’s early access. Taleworlds have said that the full release campaign will be much deeper.
Well, that was part of my point: although it's in EA (Early Access) the amount of features, or lack there of, is very, very underwhelming...
even though it's in EA.

And.... even though it's in EA, one would have thought there would be way more features in the game....
even though it's in EA.

The EA period was (according to TW) supposed to last about a year. The game has almost no features and most of the features that are in there aren't working properly or as intended. I honestly don't see how in the world they are going to fix and balance what is in the game, then add the additional features they are planning on, then fixing and balancing those all within a year.

Also @AmateurHetman and @MisterDanny8 look at this video link: Armagan interview. At around 1:40 in the video Armagan Yavuz himself says (justifying the early access price) that the game is a "very, very featured game where you have so many different features."

So.... yeah. I'm not complaining, I'm really enjoying it for what it is and am not at all upset about my purchase (drooling about the eventual mods that will be born)... but still, I have to say that I'm surprised at what little is in here and how poor what is in here is functioning.
Even though it's early access
 
The fact that this game actually feels like it offers less in the way of features is a little stunning (even though it's in EA - meaning it's in an unfinished state).

I totally agree. After all the hype about the various things you could do in the game (including death and children), the only real thing you can do is fight. I get that it's in EA, but its a little disheartening to be told things and come to find out after 8 years (about 2 years ago was when they really started talking about features I believe, correct me it I'm wrong) of waiting we have to wait some more.

At around 1:40 in the video Armagan Yavuz himself says (justifying the early access price) that the game is a "very, very featured game where you have so many different features."

I just watched part of the interview, up to about 3 minutes, and what he said about "...so many features" makes me question what he considers features. Participate in battles? Check. Own fiefs? Check. Trade? Check. Start a faction? Sort of. Engage in diplomacy? Not quite. The game is ok in it's current state, but personally to get more out of it I have to go to a third party, meaning mods.

If they had waited even 6 months to release (even in EA), what he said might have had more credibility. But as it stands, it almost sounds like TW has a different version than we do or at least sees it that way. I do enjoy the game as well, but as I said above, it's just more fun with mods.

That being said, I'm not complaining because I chose to fork out the cash as well. Although to be honest, if I had done more research I probably would have waited to buy for at least a few months. I'm certainly still hopeful for an exciting future in BL. It just probably won't get exciting in the way most of us were hoping for another 6 months, and that's a generous estimate with the state the game is in now.
 
I think that if the game was crash free, if the perks worked correctly, if there were no problems finding armors in the markets, if the optimization was good, etc etc, the game would already be almost perfect. I think this is the thought of who started the topic, and you can't blame him.
 

Dr-Shinobi

the only real thing you can do is fight.

Seems you have a lack of imagination :smile: ive been doing a lot of different playthrus with almost no fighting. But yeah some could say warband was about the same (only fighting) but it was´nt. How ever as i see it, to its core....this is a war action game after all. As skyrim was as well but with some rpg sprinkles to em
 
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Sithrain

Sergeant
In Warband at least diplomacy worked and the ai did things other than war forever, I expected the sequel to have at least matching functionality. Now I'm not mad about it and I don't want a refund or anything, but I DO want everyone and his brother giving as much feedback as possible until we get that matching functionality. If we don't, in the absence of a roadmap from TW we have no reason to expect that the things we care about will be in the final release. In fact if we shut up about all our concerns there is a very good chance they will be left by the wayside in favour of whatever someone else shouts about. Look at autoblock. This is clearly the way most singleplayer Warband fans expected to play the game, and I have seen more refunds over that issue than anything else by far, but because there was only an MP beta before EA the fact that this was a core mechanic for so many seems to have completely blindsided the devs. Getting mad is not useful, being rude is never helpful, but giving feedback is actually vital at this stage if we all want the final product to be any good.
 

Dr-Shinobi

i find it funny though that they said clearly were pre releasing it for you guys to try it out and we have more work to do and will prob take 1+ years. Then after 2 weeks to one month people are angry why it isnt finished xD Its people in a nutshell right there...If they where complaining in around 8 months then i would had understood it a little bit better

But like you said its good that the subjects are coming up so they can see what people want or find some cracks they might have missed, which isnt really what this post is about though in a way. From my understanding its about keeping feedback on track not sailing away on some grandiose idea of making this game in to an Star Citizen kind of project. Ive been seeing a lot of changes being done during this short time spam...but ive also been playing a lot and been active with latest patches and forum without the temptations of mods to add (well i just had to try out decapitation mod once xD). If it will turn out as some are hoping, well it depends on what in their dreams have pictured it to be. How ever i have the most confidence that they will finish this game later on in an ordered fashion
 
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i find it funny though that they said clearly were pre releasing it for you guys to try it out and we have more work to do and will prob take 1+ years. Then after 2 weeks to one month people are angry why it isnt finished xD Its people in a nutshell right there...If they where complaining in around 8 months then i would had understood it a little bit better

"I told you I was going to punch you in the face so why are you getting angry?"

Also a lot of people are annoyed because the game is in an even worse state than the PR blogs suggested. Most people expected there to be a few features missing, but not for there to be enormous game balance issues, unplayable memory leak problems, and the game not even running on some machines.
 

Dr-Shinobi

"I told you I was going to punch you in the face so why are you getting angry?"

Also a lot of people are annoyed because the game is in an even worse state than the PR blogs suggested. Most people expected there to be a few features missing, but not for there to be enormous game balance issues, unplayable memory leak problems, and the game not even running on some machines.

lol its a good point. But being in that bad state is just rubbish even if i can understand that those technical issues was frustrating with leaks and such to even more for people with bad computers. And not even being able to run it on release must been very infuriating so yeah there i can see one point for sure. Since when youre buying a prototype of an product it should be working at least
 
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Hodor NOT

Recruit
Also a lot of people are annoyed because the game is in an even worse state than the PR blogs suggested. Most people expected there to be a few features missing, but not for there to be enormous game balance issues, unplayable memory leak problems, and the game not even running on some machines.

Very true.
The amount of missing features was quite surprising. I cannot be a judge of EA (this is my second EA purchase ever), but it seems very bare bone.
Don't get me wrong, I like the game and I am feeling the M&B vibe. I am also a sucker for the period it is portraying.

Nevertheless, the features are basic, and definitely lacking to Warband.
The only thing that is basically working is battles and moving on the campaign map. Again, this is okay, BUT ... where is this game heading?
Will they flesh out the creating a kingdom mechanic so the diplomacy buttons actually work and call it a new feature?
Will they activate the perks and call it a new feature?

The problem here is they can call quits whenever they like. Nothing is set in stone. And if we are not vocal about our wishes and expectations of this game, they might not even be ashamed to do so.

It would be a real pity if they dropped the ball on this. So much potential.
 
Seems you have a lack of imagination :smile: ive been doing a lot of different playthrus with almost no fighting. But yeah some could say warband was about the same (only fighting) but it was´nt. How ever as i see it, to its core....this is a war action game after all. As skyrim was as well but with some rpg sprinkles to em

Some RPG sprinkles? Skyrim is among the games with the most dialogue script in the world. Whether you like the writing or not, you can read full books in the game and there are hundreds of mini-stories to engage in with NPCs. That's an essential part of what an RPG is in computer game terms. Some RPG sprinkles doesn't even remotely cut it, and the comparison to Bannerlord is ridiculous while you have "Insert Generic Dialogue Here" for 2 lines of a mini text box.

I don't know why the thread creator thinks that there's anything wrong with liking the game, and most importantly, the potential of the game, while also criticizing the hell out of it and the way the development is run. You can think that the game is wonderful and still be annoyed with the progress they've made. Hell, my main complaint with the game, that I'm going on and on about in the forums, is that the UI has only improved an absolute fraction of what I would have wanted. Some parts of the UI are so easily fixed and so infuriating that I can't imagine anyone looking at it from the perspective of a player and think "Yeah, this is fine. No improvement from Warband needed.".

And just for the record, I completely disagree with the whole idea put forth in this thread. New features is what I expect the game needs before anything resembling balance can be achieved, because every aspect of the game is heavily influenced by the features they will hopefully add at a later date. Not that I'd need them to put the new features in before they massively improve the UI, that's still my main concern, but in no way can I imagine balancing to be successful in the long term at this stage.
 
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