Statement regarding Plans for Singleplayer and Engine III

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Because

Sergeant
Well, judging from Steam statistics not more than 10k players are usually online... out of 5 000 000+ copies sold, meaning - all the casuals are already gone and only the hardcore fans remain (hardcore enough to torture themselves with beta testing).

TW has this naive idea that casuals and console players will buy more copies and DLCs in the future, but its the other way around. Fans are the ones that will stick with mods and DLCs for years to come, thus focus should be on us not some Mordhau players who bought this game only judging from the fake siege trailer that hyped up the youtube.
I think they should focus on getting players in be they casuals or console players for two reasons.
1. They make money for the company which means they can keep making the game we all love and maybe have more resource to throw at it.
2. People not playing a buggy erratic EA might be "casuals" to the likes of hard core players like us, but another way of looking at it is they are sane and are waiting for the finished game having got it out of their system on EA which doesn't feel a particularly daft position especially after 1.5.8.
3. You don't know how many new hardcore players will be drawn in purely because it is a game that was accessible, popular and dare I say it available on console so they gave it a try and got as hooked as us. More popular it is, the more people playing it the better it will be as a game, as you will get more players doing more things with it and it will make the modding scene much more lively.
4. A surprising amount of "casuals" will still buy dlc. I know I have paid for dlc in games that I am not a hard core fan of and I expect many others do to.
5. Who buys more copies of a game anyway surely you only need 1? ; )
Not saying that what we say as beta testers and hardcore fans should be an important consideration for TW, but they need to make the game cater for the largest audience.

As an example I think in most ways Morrowind was a better game base than Skyrim, but I have spent a lot more time playing Skyrim as the modding scene around the game is so much more lively as it was a bigger launch with more players. I think the same should be true for Bannerlord so let them have make a game that reaches more people.

Hardcore fans like us can still ***** about how Warband was better in so many ways (which it is), but I still think the more people that buy and play Bannerlord the better, who knows what call stuff will come from a fresh wave of players getting into this great game.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Well, judging from Steam statistics not more than 10k players are usually online... out of 5 000 000+ copies sold, meaning - all the casuals are already gone and only the hardcore fans remain (hardcore enough to torture themselves with beta testing).
There are basically zero SP-orientated games that keep their launch numbers going longer than a few months. The ones that do it best manage by having a regular (and quite extended) schedule of DLC releases. Something like an 80% drop in three months is so normal it isn't even worth mentioning.
 

human72

Recruit
Will there be more story elements added in beyond the banner of cladaros bit as the main thing or will that be flushed out with more content? and of the mods that are there which ones could you implament in next as a post stable release DLC?

also historically in the middle ages and especally in the wars of the renessance up to the 80 years war the power of the free companies of mercenaries is real as it is even being able to sack entire cities and more. could there be bandit free companies or equivalent of that out there for people to fight for good loot and money as a mid or late game bandit type?
 

human72

Recruit
There are basically zero SP-orientated games that keep their launch numbers going longer than a few months. The ones that do it best manage by having a regular (and quite extended) schedule of DLC releases. Something like an 80% drop in three months is so normal it isn't even worth mentioning.
I know once the devs get to stable release someone should ask them if they are going to do the DLC schedule of releases and what not. the modder community will help greatlly for DLC ideas.
 

vonbalt

Knight
WBNWVCM&B
I know once the devs get to stable release someone should ask them if they are going to do the DLC schedule of releases and what not. the modder community will help greatlly for DLC ideas.
Hope they partner with the Brytenwalda team again to create another kickass DLC then, these guys know how to create fun and immersive gameplay :grin: (and they react positively to criticism and give the community what they want like was proved with the reforged edition of VC)
 
Hope they partner with the Brytenwalda team again to create another kickass DLC then, these guys know how to create fun and immersive gameplay :grin: (and they react positively to criticism and give the community what they want like was proved with the reforged edition of VC)
You assume that the VC team waited for many years on standby, begging on the streets to survive, just to make a DLC whenever Bannerlord is released. Or they are all dead by now from exposure. (Except @Adorno, he has a day job resuscitating the homeless DLC makers in the ER, and is active here.)
 
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five bucks

Veteran
I think the imagination at TW is fine, the issue is more with planning and communication (both internally and externally) and, if you believe glassdoor reviews, some employees not doing much work.

These "statements" are the closest Taleworlds has given us to a real roadmap, but they still tell us almost nothing about what plans for future features TW has, despite the community frequently asking for info. This leaves us with three possibilities: either Taleworlds has a long-term plan but they won't share it with their customers (why?), or these are the only features they're going to work on before release (in which case get your refunds while you can), or the most likely option: TW has no overarching plan for Bannerlord and is just making it up as they go along with people working on whatever they feel like, which may or may not overlap with what the community actually wants.

If so, that would explain why the game is in such a mess, with development going every which way and no prioritization. If they haven't already, then TW needs to sit down and make themselves a complete design document for what they want Bannerlord to look like featurewise by release.

It should include, in order of priority:
  1. The things everyone naturally expected would be a part of Bannerlord when they bought it. Missing features from the last Mount & Blade game, and new features Taleworlds said would be in Bannerlord, such as the crime system. Also the Italo-Norman masked helmet which TW used to advertise the game.
  2. Features that give a reason to exist to game mechanics that currently seem pointless. For example, right now there is very little reason to do a long-term dynasty playthrough, because you can run out of enemies to fight in the endgame. We need endgame enemies such as civil wars or invasions, so that once you've conquered all of Calradia there is still threatening enemies to fight.

    That can be Taleworlds' official roadmap which they should share with the whole company and community. These are reasonable goals which a company of their size and resources can be expected to complete, and which they are obligated to complete, now that they're rolling in Early Access bucks.
    The next two points should only be mentioned on the roadmap as general guidelines.
  3. "Bonus features": Anything that's been a popular request among the community, but TW is not actually obligated to work on, because they didn't give anyone reason to believe it would be in the game. Can be considered after release and completed if there is time and inclination, or can be added as DLC later.
  4. "Pet projects": Anything which TW employees personally feel like working on but nobody asked for, like barbers. This is the lowest priority as they're being paid by the community to make the game; they aren't being paid to make a game for solely their own enjoyment, and working on pet projects is time not spent working on things the paying customer deserves.
Such a list would be a good step towards fixing the apparent work culture issues of TW.
 
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Nalgasucia507

Sergeant
I think the imagination at TW is okay, but the issue is moreso with the planning and communication (both internally and externally) and, if you believe glassdoor reviews, some employees not actually doing work.
Jesus, yea I believe them, although I don't want to. I really hope by now they got good devs (I think they do) that are forming how-to material to the new newbies.
 

Dreed89

Sergeant
TW has no overarching plan for Bannerlord and is just making it up as they go along with people working on whatever they feel like
Lack of planning and communication put aside, to elaborate this, I think the reason might be that TW cannot rely on their codebase to make any kind of feature statements.

The code must be in such a bad shape that they don't even know if they can make said features work.

At the end, they end up not announcing said features not to fail on implementing them. They will only experiment with it when time comes.
 
Amid all the doom and gloom, let's not forget we have guys like Mexxico and the low profile, but likely powerful force for the good, Duh "Refactor Everything" Von Duh, a former modder and a genuine fan. If those kinds of people get more influence over design and other decisions, the end product might be worth playing and modding.
If the good people keep leaving (like Mex), we might as well forget the franchise and wait for some other studio to make a game like this.
This approach worked for me in the past. I really wanted to play Dwarf Fortress endlessly, but the horrible UI was too annoying and when I've seen the devs don't care and instead pursue exotic features that add little value, I quit and waited for the inevitable non-autistic version of it, and several years later came the excellent Rimworld. Now the DF devs are scrambling to make an UI (because in the US they need serious money for healthcare of all things), but it's kind of too late.
You make a game for the players, not for yourself, even when it's free. And when you charge full price, you better listen well.
"Pet projects": Anything which TW employees personally feel like working on but nobody asked for, like barbers. This is the lowest priority as they're being paid by the community to make the game; they aren't being paid to make a game for solely their own enjoyment, and working on pet projects is time not spent working on things the paying customer deserves.
To be fair, such pet projects usually don't take much time, because the developer is very motivated. It keeps the devs morale up for work on the rest of their tasks, which are less interesting or downright frustrating. No significant time will be saved by banning pet projects.
 
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HugoTheFrenchMan

Master Knight
I know once the devs get to stable release someone should ask them if they are going to do the DLC schedule of releases and what not. the modder community will help greatlly for DLC ideas.
I doubt TW will actually make their own DLCs we will probably get something like VC but its probably gonna be Brytenwalda making it again since TW doesn't have a DLC philosophy and aren't known for DLC I doubt it will be done
 

human72

Recruit
Hope they partner with the Brytenwalda team again to create another kickass DLC then, these guys know how to create fun and immersive gameplay :grin: (and they react positively to criticism and give the community what they want like was proved with the reforged edition of VC)
one can only hope in that regard but one thing at a time though.
 
Also, on a side note. Can we get ironman mode sooner?

Its fairly easy to make and would exclude save scumming temptation which is strong in this game.
 
I think the imagination at TW is fine, the issue is more with planning and communication (both internally and externally) and, if you believe glassdoor reviews, some employees not doing much work.
Oh please man after games like Kenshi came out, a game that even if it's different, shares a lot of similarities, this game has proven to be boring, stale and uninteresting. Look at the quests, they're mmo repetitive crap, the factions are all exactly the same because instead of making rich cultures with different playthroughs they chose to make them as basic as possible with the only difference being troop type and in aesthetics, the lords and ladies are copy paste with nothing to bring to the game or to the experience, the only characters that have "character" is Raeghea but only because everyone is horny by her character model lmao, the companions same ****, repetitive stories to "random people" that don't affect your experience at all, you just get them as a chore, the main story? I've never seen such an awful way to introduce a player to lore and into a game other than giving them a fake ass family with no personality, features like Arenas, Hideouts, Marriage, having children, the empty taverns, empty towns they're all so dull it's just seem like it was made by an amateur who's not able to think beyond and give something fresh, they're a comeback from Warband that doesn't even seem worthy of a sequel, just a minor improvement a mod could make. Minor clans are boring too, they're just dull mercenaries with so much potential wasted, this game is just potential wasted in terrible design choices, even if I try to play this game I can't get away from this idea because it's all I see, games end up being fighting and fighting and fighting and you can't just live of that.
Either it's lack of imagination or pure cowardice, I don't think this game will improve at all at the things that really matter and it will stay as a dull sequel that's too scared to really take a chance.
 

Morelen

Regular
I generally agree, I was hoping Warband would be the foundation on which Bannerlord would be built, not a reworking of the foundation.
I think the primary problem with Bannerlord (aside from combat/siege AI) is the lack of interesting things to do. I think expanding on the campaign interactions in meaningful and immersive ways would drastically improve the game. Just spitballing some ideas:
  • Noble gatherings where kingdom policy is determined (similar to a feast, but for business, unrelated to tournaments)
    • Would be similar to how the marshal system worked in Warband where lords would congregate before going to war, just a political version of that
  • Feasts centered around tournaments where lords can congregate and build relations
    • Could act as essentially a roving quest hub where kingdom-impacting quests can be taken/turned in (scouting, soldier training, taxation gathering, etc.)
  • Build on the lord relation system
    • Create more interaction with the lord relation system (similar to the "I think we should go here", "Patrol here", "I want to marry your child" stuff from Warband)
    • Increase utility of lord relation system (adoption into other clans (sandbox mode only), seek favors (money, soldiers, gear, influence, position within clan, etc.)
  • Build on campaign effects of quests
    • Right now it seems like quests only really affect your ability to recruit soldiers from notables
    • Would love to see more tangible campaign effects of quests (scouting, soldier training, taxation gathering, gear smithing, etc. impacts/drives AI decisions or improves fief/kingdom in some way)
  • AI patrols created from city and castle garrisons to hunt looters/bandits/small enemy parties
  • Build on AI personalities and traits
    • Similar to Total War/Civ/Age of Wonders, the personalities and traits of AI lords and kingdoms should affect their decisions in meaningful ways
This +1000 !!! I think you summed up a huge part of the missing essence of this game. They created the game's body (actually it's more like a skeleton ATM) but they need to create the game's SOUL which is non existent right now. An empty husk. Big part of what made Warband so popular among fans was the immersion. I hope TW reads this and listen.
 

Morelen

Regular
Oh please man after games like Kenshi came out, a game that even if it's different, shares a lot of similarities, this game has proven to be boring, stale and uninteresting. Look at the quests, they're mmo repetitive crap, the factions are all exactly the same because instead of making rich cultures with different playthroughs they chose to make them as basic as possible with the only difference being troop type and in aesthetics, the lords and ladies are copy paste with nothing to bring to the game or to the experience, the only characters that have "character" is Raeghea but only because everyone is horny by her character model lmao, the companions same ****, repetitive stories to "random people" that don't affect your experience at all, you just get them as a chore, the main story? I've never seen such an awful way to introduce a player to lore and into a game other than giving them a fake ass family with no personality, features like Arenas, Hideouts, Marriage, having children, the empty taverns, empty towns they're all so dull it's just seem like it was made by an amateur who's not able to think beyond and give something fresh, they're a comeback from Warband that doesn't even seem worthy of a sequel, just a minor improvement a mod could make. Minor clans are boring too, they're just dull mercenaries with so much potential wasted, this game is just potential wasted in terrible design choices, even if I try to play this game I can't get away from this idea because it's all I see, games end up being fighting and fighting and fighting and you can't just live of that.
Either it's lack of imagination or pure cowardice, I don't think this game will improve at all at the things that really matter and it will stay as a dull sequel that's too scared to really take a chance.
Agreed. although I have tons of respect for the original makers of M&B, I almost hope for the game to be hijaked by another studio so that we might dream of seeing it achieve part of its potential. From what they are showing us since the last 2 years, TW does not have what it takes to do it. Not anymore, and though there are some shining elements among the staff, it's just not enough. They are hoplessly dwarfed by the game's huge potential and are lacking ressources (not speaking financially) to finish it. I'm also wondering what is in Armagan's head right now. What is his thoughts about his game ?
 
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