Statement Regarding Plans For MP Vol.4

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  • Einarcf

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Master Knight
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There is still a lot of work to be done to talk about "tactics" in Captain mode; that said. How would you like to raise the AI skills to 100? (Here the mod).



The ai in that level would simulate an average human player trained in MP environments.

Then we would start talking about "competitive environment"...
 

DaN_CZ

Veteran
WBVC
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Everybody is arguing what's better - skirmish or captain. Nobody gonna comment how screwed up the combat system and the game as a whole is :xf-cry:
 

vfkaseke

Regular
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There is still a lot of work to be done to talk about "tactics" in Captain mode; that said. How would you like to raise the AI skills to 100? (Here the mod).



The ai in that level would simulate an average human player trained in MP environments.

Then we would start talking about "competitive environment"...
The AI doesn't need to be able to fight human players in captain mode. It's main purpose is to fight other AI. While this surely would discourage ramboing, I don't see it as a good way of making the mode any more balanced, or for that matter better. The point of captain is NOT to fight bots, as all the dumb skirm scum always spout here.
 

vfkaseke

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Everybody is arguing what's better - skirmish or captain. Nobody gonna comment how screwed up the combat system and the game as a whole is :xf-cry:
This wouldn't have happened if the skirmish players would stop hating on captain mode. I really have a hard time understanding why they keep brigading every post with even one captain player raising an opinion. You are completely right though, the game in itself is flawed.

Edit: Although this time I'd say it was Olaf who started the whole thing. Non the less, it is dumb.
 

WarMir

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Before more self-proclaimed moderators, expert op gamers and strangers I have never even talked to or know, are going to bait me into mindless conversations, just know, im done here....
Och i am so sorry for you, not.
You and your guild are delusional, go and brag in game how good you are playing against random people.
 

Tabitja

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVC
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So fun to read, please continue.

note for skirmish players: Captain is not in a good shape right now. It was fine till 1.5 update. It is a lot of fun actually once you learn how to lead your squad. It is not about being the most skilled fighter but about leading. Being a skilled fighter will help of course. It might turn the tide of battle on many occations. If you're not interested in leading formations leave it out. If you like bigger clashes, try it out once it is in better shape.

sincerely,
 
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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Master Knight
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The AI doesn't need to be able to fight human players in captain mode. It's main purpose is to fight other AI. While this surely would discourage ramboing, I don't see it as a good way of making the mode any more balanced, or for that matter better. The point of captain is NOT to fight bots, as all the dumb skirm scum always spout here.
Okay, I'll buy that argument. However an AI at level 100 interprets the commands better (or supposedly) and fights in bot vs bot / bot vs player scenarios much more efficiently and proficiently (I assure you) than in low levels or the default that currently prevails in that mode. In my opinion, the captain mode should be far above the SP challenge mode in terms of "difficulty"... right now (and since the alpha-beta period closed) the ai doesn't pass the cut (imo).

It would be a totally plausible solution to leave behind that label of "meme mode" and "vets are bad" where human players get used to a scenario where the combat skill bar is higher so that when changing mode "the shock" is not so traumatic for some.
 

vfkaseke

Regular
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Okay, I'll buy that argument. However an AI at level 100 interprets the commands better (or supposedly) and fights in bot vs bot / bot vs player scenarios much more efficiently and proficiently (I assure you) than in low levels or the default that currently prevails in that mode. In my opinion, the captain mode should be far above the SP challenge mode in terms of "difficulty"... right now (and since the alpha-beta period closed) the ai doesn't pass the cut (imo).

It would be a totally plausible solution to leave behind that label of "meme mode" and "vets are bad" where human players get used to a scenario where the combat skill bar is higher so that when changing mode "the shock" is not so traumatic for some.
Sure, the AI is a bit dumb at times, but their fighting proficiency is by far not the main problem, and even less so an important thing to fix. The real problems lie in balancing of units, ranged AI, the lack of commands and the lack of cavalry AI proficiency. Player kills have never been super important in captain mode, and honestly most of it has to do with how you position your units, and where and how you engage. Shield units for example might not even get any kills, and the best thing the player can do is raise their shield up, and go in the middle to draw as much aggro as they can. The best way of making a difference as the player unit is either to pick the enemy units off one by one before the engagement (which is a risk in and of itself), or by drawing units away from the main fight.

Also, if the captain AI was much more proficient than the SP AI, the mode would have the same problem that skirmish had right now: beginners get matched up with players much better than themselves and get obliterated, and thus quit the MP all together. Only then it would be bots instead of players ****ing them up.

I can appreciate the points you are making, and agree to a certain degree with them, but there are bigger problems with captain mode, and one of them honestly ain't the skirmish players calling it a meme.

Edit: honestly though I think the SP AI is a bit too pathetic as well, and could use an upgrade, and by extension that would also upgrade the captain AIs capabilities.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
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Oh dont worry about skirmish players talking **** about captain mode, its just sibling rivalry. Its like us making jokes about sweden. We mostly dont mean it, mostly.
We dont care about captains just like you dont care about skirmish. You play the game your way, and we'll play it ours. Theres no reason why one mode should be prioritised over the other, Taleworld is a big company, I'm sure they have the resources.
Saying skirmish players are toxic is pretty interesting though. Most of the reports I've seen on the forum have been from captain players complaining about teamhitting etc, but very few reports, if any, about skirmish. Maybe we are superior hmmmm :unsure:

Kinda funny how this topic became a captain vs skirmish fight. Its like in Mercenaries where everyone just camped and talked **** in chat because nothing was happening ingame.
 

vfkaseke

Regular
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Most of the reports I've seen on the forum have been from captain players complaining about teamhitting etc, but very few reports, if any, about skirmish. Maybe we are superior hmmmm :unsure:
There's been a single huge troll menacing the NA servers on captain mode, who the developers were unable to ban for the longest time.
We dont care about captains just like you dont care about skirmish.
I do care about skirmish. It's a fun mode as well, just not as much fun as captain imo.
Oh dont worry about skirmish players talking **** about captain mode, its just sibling rivalry. Its like us making jokes about sweden. We mostly dont mean it, mostly.
Finn, Norwegian or Danish? Everyone here hates the Swedes, don't they?
 

jon01

Knight
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Neither Captains nor Skirmish need the most attention in particular. Just the MP in general. All modes would benefit from improvements to combat.

The combat really is what makes MP in any of its modes unique, and by which gives the series the best chance of standing out from its imitators.