Statement Regarding Plans For MP Vol.3

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Giving players the ability to pick a weapon that works well against heavy armor on the fly is what made Warband so balanced. You get to adapt to your situation at respawn.

I think you got a good point here. For me, pre-made classes could work only if a flexible choice of arms and armor would be available within the class system. In the battlefield situation you need to adapt your equipment, so it counteracts the type of enemy u're facing. Fighting Khuzait horse-archers requires not only different strategies, but also different arms than an encounter with Sturgia. This is oblivious for anyone who tried singleplayer, so I really can't understand why Talewords went with such an restrictive system for the multiplayer game. WTF Talewords?
 
I will admit there are a few shortcomings with the current class system. Most of the equipment choices seem solely focused on providing Skirmish and Siege players with extra weapons, while in captain mode most if not all non-ranged secondary weapons do not ever get used by your troops. I could have a standard voulgier set up complete with sword and everything, and my units will still only choose to use the voulges and not their secondary sword weapons. This system would be fine if we also had the option to tell our ai troops to switch between their primary and secondary weapons. Additionally troops like oathsworn who have Bastard sword as an option to pick is completely useless in captain mode due to the fact that our ai troops can't switch weapon functionalities on swords, so they use their 2-handed/1-handed option sword purely as a 1-handed weapon.

@azakhi Alot of the secondary weapon choices in captain mode are pointless, and the extra weapons only serve to slow our ai units down. Can we expect to see an option to switch between weapon types for our troops? You could replace the "Scatter" formation F3+F8 with a "Switch weapons" function that simply tells your ai troops to cycle to their secondary weapons, seeing as how "Scatter" does not properly work in MP and almost never gets used in matches.

Or if this is something that is not possible / realistic, can we expect to see different equipment choices for Captain vs Skirmish modes? Maybe we could replace the perks and equipment that never get used / have no use in captain mode with perks that will actually have an impact on your troop composition. For example the extra 1-handed weapon that most units including palantine guards get serve no purpose for Ai troops as Ai troops will only use their primary weapon and ranged weapon if not on hold fire. Perhaps we could just remove these extra weapons?
 
I will admit there are a few shortcomings with the current class system. Most of the equipment choices seem solely focused on providing Skirmish and Siege players with extra weapons, while in captain mode most if not all non-ranged secondary weapons do not ever get used by your troops. I could have a standard voulgier set up complete with sword and everything, and my units will still only choose to use the voulges and not their secondary sword weapons. This system would be fine if we also had the option to tell our ai troops to switch between their primary and secondary weapons. Additionally troops like oathsworn who have Bastard sword as an option to pick is completely useless in captain mode due to the fact that our ai troops can't switch weapon functionalities on swords, so they use their 2-handed/1-handed option sword purely as a 1-handed weapon.

@azakhi Alot of the secondary weapon choices in captain mode are pointless, and the extra weapons only serve to slow our ai units down. Can we expect to see an option to switch between weapon types for our troops? You could replace the "Scatter" formation F3+F8 with a "Switch weapons" function that simply tells your ai troops to cycle to their secondary weapons, seeing as how "Scatter" does not properly work in MP and almost never gets used in matches.

Or if this is something that is not possible / realistic, can we expect to see different equipment choices for Captain vs Skirmish modes? Maybe we could replace the perks and equipment that never get used / have no use in captain mode with perks that will actually have an impact on your troop composition. For example the extra 1-handed weapon that most units including palantine guards get serve no purpose for Ai troops as Ai troops will only use their primary weapon and ranged weapon if not on hold fire. Perhaps we could just remove these extra weapons?

@AVRC
 
I would like to add one (minor) critique to the class system which I haven't seen mentioned before.

I switch equipment with the keyboard buttons, not with the mouse wheel, as it's faster. Instead of shifting through my sword to get to my awl pike, I just press the button to grab it. The problem with the predefined loadouts is that there's no info which equipment is going into which slot. Worse, there does not seem to be a default logic to which the classes inbetween adhere to. For example, if you take a Vlandian voulgier with an awl pike, slot 1 will be the main weapon, slot 2 the side sword and slot 4 the awl pike. Now let's compare that to the Aserai guard with a pike: slot 1 will be the main weapon (good) and slot 3 will be the pike (what?). Since I switch equipment by directly choosing the slot this can be annoying and at times cause me a death as I switched incorrectly in the heat of the moment.

The system in Warband allowed you to choose what equipment goes into which slot. I used that a lot.

Now, this is a minor nitpick. I can just learn the individual slots by memory, or test them out at the start of a round when I spawn, or take my time to drop them and put them in the correct slots that I want. However, that is just as annoying as dropping the forced weapons you don't want at all each spawn.

A solution for the current system would be to add info to the GUI, which equipment goes into which slot when selecting a class. I have made a simple drawing:
gui.png
 
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I would like to add one (minor) critique to the class system which I haven't seen mentioned before.

I switch equipment with the keyboard buttons, not with the mouse wheel, as it's faster. Instead of shifting through my sword to get to my awl pike, I just press the button to grab it. The problem with the predefined loadouts is that there's no info which equipment is going into which slot. Worse, there does not seem to be a default logic to which the classes inbetween adhere to. For example, if you take a Vlandian voulgier with an awl pike, slot 1 will be the main weapon, slot 2 the side sword and slot 4 the awl pike. Now let's compare that to the Aserai guard with a pike: slot 1 will be the main weapon (good) and slot 3 (what?) will be the pike. Since I switch equipment by directly choosing the slot this can be annoying and at times cause me a death as I switched incorrectly in the heat of the moment.

The system in Warband allowed you to choose what equipment goes into which slot. I used that a lot.

Now, this is a minor nitpick. I can just learn the individual slots by memory, or test them out at the start of a round when I spawn, or take my time to drop them and put them in the correct slots that I want. However, that is just as annoying to do each spawn as dropping the forced weapons you don't want at all each spawn.
tAwsmE9.png

This would also solve the problem. Even after picking up weapons from ground you would not loose track.
 
I would like to add one (minor) critique to the class system which I haven't seen mentioned before.

I switch equipment with the keyboard buttons, not with the mouse wheel, as it's faster. Instead of shifting through my sword to get to my awl pike, I just press the button to grab it. The problem with the predefined loadouts is that there's no info which equipment is going into which slot. Worse, there does not seem to be a default logic to which the classes inbetween adhere to. For example, if you take a Vlandian voulgier with an awl pike, slot 1 will be the main weapon, slot 2 the side sword and slot 4 the awl pike. Now let's compare that to the Aserai guard with a pike: slot 1 will be the main weapon (good) and slot 3 (what?) will be the pike. Since I switch equipment by directly choosing the slot this can be annoying and at times cause me a death as I switched incorrectly in the heat of the moment.

The system in Warband allowed you to choose what equipment goes into which slot. I used that a lot.

Now, this is a minor nitpick. I can just learn the individual slots by memory, or test them out at the start of a round when I spawn, or take my time to drop them and put them in the correct slots that I want. However, that is just as annoying to do each spawn as dropping the forced weapons you don't want at all each spawn.

A solution for the current system would be to add info to the GUI, which equipment goes into which slot when selecting a class. I have made a simple drawing:
gui.png

The only way right now to see what's in what slot is holding G (or drop weapon key) and wait for the menu to pop up. Agree with your proposal tho.
 
The weapon switch issue is real - combined with the fact that weapons despawn after being dropped twice, you better not make any mistakes arranging your inventory...
 
I will admit there are a few shortcomings with the current class system. Most of the equipment choices seem solely focused on providing Skirmish and Siege players with extra weapons, while in captain mode most if not all non-ranged secondary weapons do not ever get used by your troops. I could have a standard voulgier set up complete with sword and everything, and my units will still only choose to use the voulges and not their secondary sword weapons. This system would be fine if we also had the option to tell our ai troops to switch between their primary and secondary weapons. Additionally troops like oathsworn who have Bastard sword as an option to pick is completely useless in captain mode due to the fact that our ai troops can't switch weapon functionalities on swords, so they use their 2-handed/1-handed option sword purely as a 1-handed weapon.

@azakhi Alot of the secondary weapon choices in captain mode are pointless, and the extra weapons only serve to slow our ai units down. Can we expect to see an option to switch between weapon types for our troops? You could replace the "Scatter" formation F3+F8 with a "Switch weapons" function that simply tells your ai troops to cycle to their secondary weapons, seeing as how "Scatter" does not properly work in MP and almost never gets used in matches.

Or if this is something that is not possible / realistic, can we expect to see different equipment choices for Captain vs Skirmish modes? Maybe we could replace the perks and equipment that never get used / have no use in captain mode with perks that will actually have an impact on your troop composition. For example the extra 1-handed weapon that most units including palantine guards get serve no purpose for Ai troops as Ai troops will only use their primary weapon and ranged weapon if not on hold fire. Perhaps we could just remove these extra weapons?
We have planned AI improvements as well as perk changes in the following patches. Thanks for the feedback.
 
I would like to add one (minor) critique to the class system which I haven't seen mentioned before.

I switch equipment with the keyboard buttons, not with the mouse wheel, as it's faster. Instead of shifting through my sword to get to my awl pike, I just press the button to grab it. The problem with the predefined loadouts is that there's no info which equipment is going into which slot. Worse, there does not seem to be a default logic to which the classes inbetween adhere to. For example, if you take a Vlandian voulgier with an awl pike, slot 1 will be the main weapon, slot 2 the side sword and slot 4 the awl pike. Now let's compare that to the Aserai guard with a pike: slot 1 will be the main weapon (good) and slot 3 will be the pike (what?). Since I switch equipment by directly choosing the slot this can be annoying and at times cause me a death as I switched incorrectly in the heat of the moment.

The system in Warband allowed you to choose what equipment goes into which slot. I used that a lot.

Now, this is a minor nitpick. I can just learn the individual slots by memory, or test them out at the start of a round when I spawn, or take my time to drop them and put them in the correct slots that I want. However, that is just as annoying as dropping the forced weapons you don't want at all each spawn.

A solution for the current system would be to add info to the GUI, which equipment goes into which slot when selecting a class. I have made a simple drawing:
gui.png

Think I made a post back in alpha detailing my annoyance in being a keyboard switcher. None of the good competitive players in warband switched with scroll since it forced you to go through an extra weapon sometimes. Now I don't even know where my weapons are stored unless I remember them by memory. But as you said, it's a minor critique that joins up with every other critique of the multiplayer to form a massive hurdle for TaleWorlds. Scrapping the class system is a good way to move forward.
 
But as you said, it's a minor critique that joins up with every other critique of the multiplayer to form a massive hurdle for TaleWorlds.
I think this is where the problem lies. Since every single quality of life change is called a minor problem it is never fixed. But the quality of life is the most important thing because it faces you every day and is the deciding factor if the game is liked or not.
Camera snap back, Camera jumping, Inventory management, despawning items, crashing servers, broken key bindings, dueling on tdm without money, no skill based matchmaking. That is what kills the game. The so called minor issues.
 
The camera wedging itself into the wall when you go near one has been one of the most annoying things I've faced recently, jesus
This is one of the problems i dont understand. They had it perfect in warband, if you were close to a wall you werent blinded
 
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