Statement Regarding Plans For MP Vol.2

AxiosXiphos

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I feel like all those balance issues tied to a class could have been resolved so much easier with the warband class system.
Warband was far from balanced though. Khergits were literally banned from being used on 99% of servers. Rhodoks had terrible shields for melee combat and awkward weapons. Veagirs had the ridiculously and equally broken Elite and regular scimitars. Nords & Swadians got a great range of armour whereas Rhodoks went from a couple of hundred gold filthy rags straight to top-tier chainmail with nothing in between. Swadians had access to the greatsword (and no one else did) which was broken as all balls; and the great lance which was again terribly busted in a 1v1 cav fight.

I mean this doesn't mean it was impossible but dear god was Warband unbalanced... I loved it but it was all over the place. NeoGK (amongst other mods) did good work it but still; it was not the gold standard of balanced gameplay :grin:
 

Jess_the_Hobozerk

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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Warband was far from balanced though. Khergits were literally banned from being used on 99% of servers. Rhodoks had terrible shields for melee combat and awkward weapons. Veagirs had the ridiculously and equally broken Elite and regular scimitars. Nords & Swadians got a great range of armour whereas Rhodoks went from a couple of hundred gold filthy rags straight to top-tier chainmail with nothing in between. Swadians had access to the greatsword (and no one else did) which was broken as all balls; and the great lance which was again terribly busted in a 1v1 cav fight.

I mean this doesn't mean it was impossible but dear god was Warband unbalanced... I loved it but it was all over the place. NeoGK (amongst other mods) did good work it but still; it was not the gold standard of balanced gameplay :grin:
We advocated for fixing those issues back then too but it was largely ignored. Glad that doesn't happen anymore. :iamamoron:
 

jon01

Knight
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Warband was far from balanced though. Khergits were literally banned from being used on 99% of servers. Rhodoks had terrible shields for melee combat and awkward weapons. Veagirs had the ridiculously and equally broken Elite and regular scimitars. Nords & Swadians got a great range of armour whereas Rhodoks went from a couple of hundred gold filthy rags straight to top-tier chainmail with nothing in between. Swadians had access to the greatsword (and no one else did) which was broken as all balls; and the great lance which was again terribly busted in a 1v1 cav fight.
Khergits were unbalanced, but Great Lances and Great Swords were rarely ever used. I only ever saw them in casual DM servers or Duel. Scimitars are nice weapons, but they're not OP. I don't know why you're saying "Rhodoks had terrible shields for melee combat and awkward weapons". Rhodoks had really good shields for melee combat. The Military Cleaver was a great weapon. Other Rhodok weapons like the Hammer, Morningstar and Pike could be extremely effective in matches.

Why didn't you mention Swadia's Long Awlpikes and Nord's free javelins?
 

AxiosXiphos

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Khergits were unbalanced, but Great Lances and Great Swords were rarely ever used. I only ever saw them in casual DM servers or Duel. Scimitars are nice weapons, but they're not OP. I don't know why you're saying "Rhodoks had terrible shields for melee combat and awkward weapons". Rhodoks had really good shields for melee combat. The Military Cleaver was a great weapon. Other Rhodok weapons like the Hammer, Morningstar and Pike could be extremely effective in matches.

Why didn't you mention Swadia's Long Awlpikes and Nord's free javelins?
I won't argue with you; you are probably right. To be fair it's now been a long time since I've played warband MP and longer since I played it seriously. My examples may be off - but my point stands.
 
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youcoolman69

Recruit
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The Call to Arms event on Saturday showed that custom server siege battles work enough... Why not take the crash map out of the rotation and release custom servers to all? That way instead of 50 people total playing multiplayer at any given time and no siege games running, at least clans will be supported.
 

Virthuss

Recruit
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Seriously tho? Sturgia weaker than khuzait? Battanian infantry needs to be faster even though they have the fastest units already? Cav lancer should be 200 when sturgian and aserai cavs are better in almost all ways?
Battanian light infantry should indeed be faster. Only their savage is fast now, but it comes at a price, which is no armor.
For the cav Lancer, the main issue for me is the price of the Cataphract compared to other heavy cavs of the game. It makes the empire the only faction unable to align two heavy cav per player when they have 390 dinars.

NOTE: I ONLY play skirmish as there is not enough players in Asia for sieges.
 

CANTON

Veteran
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Battanian light infantry should indeed be faster. Only their savage is fast now, but it comes at a price, which is no armor.
Battanian infantry is probably the speediest in the game. I don't know what you're talking about here.

For the cav Lancer, the main issue for me is the price of the Cataphract compared to other heavy cavs of the game. It makes the empire the only faction unable to align two heavy cav per player when they have 390 dinars.
Yeah, you're right. No faction should be able to get two heavy cav spawns per round.
 

Virthuss

Recruit
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Well that's a bit rude, a lot of what Virthuss is saying is very true, especially with the current meta. Fiann being OP is quite the myth, they're good sure, but they've been nerfed since it was originally OP and with the meta constantly changing, it can get countered pretty easily. One thing I disagree with Virthuss about is actually changing the speed of archers/crossbows - the speed was nerfed ages ago due to them being able to kite or since the proficiencies are the same as infantry, there's no point in playing infantry when you can just play archer and have that mobility and damage.
I didn't mention it, but my post only was about skirmishes, as playing in Asia there is not enough players for the sieges. In this meta, considering the flags, light archers should have better mobility as they can't really hold a flag and they arrows are no match for heavily armored units. Reducing their melee damages would make sense too.

Also, it's just my feedback, and it's influenced by almost 3000 hours of warband lol.
 

Virthuss

Recruit
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Battanian infantry is probably the speediest in the game. I don't know what you're talking about here.
Savages are. Rangers and clan warrior are too slow compared to their light gear. For the clan warriors, it would a sort of skirmisher gameplay as they could hit and run with the ash throwing spear. They are a bit too slow to avoid melee from now.
 

Biyonik

Veteran
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Savages are. Rangers and clan warrior are too slow compared to their light gear. For the clan warriors, it would a sort of skirmisher gameplay as they could hit and run with the ash throwing spear. They are a bit too slow to avoid melee from now.
Rangers are supposed to be slow so they cant kite infantry. Even at this point a fiann can kite a legionnaire simply because legionnaires are already slow and also have shields. As for clan warrior they have 81 speed which is pretty damn fast, they are basically the best peasant unit right now because they can have a very fast mace or decent armor and same sword as oathsworn, and a throwing spear or a shield.
 

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
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Shouldn't we wait a bit and form our balance opinions on the EU Skirmish tourny? It's clear that people have wildly different takes, and that's because anything will work in pub games. There's no matchmaking making pubs pretty much useless.

The NA tourny had such high skill disparity and didn't have a finals (lmao) so it's a bit hard to tell based on that.
 

Smourbif

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
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Just my few inputs about the MP, with my 150+ hours in game.
IMPORTANT EDIT: based on skirmishes only ( not enough players in Asia for sieges :sad: )


Faction balance:

Aserai:

- Skirmishers are overpowered, especially for 100 dinars
- second infantry is made useless because of the skirmisher
- the nomad rider should have camel in option in slot 2, so it could have longer spear + camel and be a good cavalry counter

Sturgia:
- Worst faction so far, unbalanced on a bad way. Beside cavalry, including the Raider that proves very useful with it's Kontos, the rest is trash
- Hunter is usuless af. No athletism ( it's a hunter, he should have! ), not enough dmg
- High tier infantry should have better throwing weapons than a fish harpoon...
- 100 dinars infantry should have some throwing weapon too
- Most of the unit on foot should be faster, this is supposed to be a footmen faction

Empire:
- Funniest faction to play with, well designed so far and good balance
- Should have crossbow as a base weapon for the archer levy IMO

Vlandia:
- Funniest faction alongside Empire due to its roster diversity
- Sharpshooter is useless though. His pike is a butter knife, his melee skills are horrible and blocking in time is challenging af. His athletism skill, also, is too poor. Because of this, getting the cheaper crossbowman is better

Battania:
- Fiane should have more speed, similar to ranger would make sense. Too slow otherwise
- Most of the unit on foot should be faster

Khuzait:
- A bit overpowered but well designed nonetheless
- Foot Lancer is a bit useless as he doesn't have one handed weapon beside spear without sectioning the option
- Cav Lancer should be the price of the Cataphract due to their skill set and their gears

Other:

Other / global :

- Horses have WAY too many hp, at least horse speed and maneuverability should decrease with damages
- Lances should be destroyed after a couched lance. Would make more sense, and too OP otherwise
- Capturing flag should be more rewarding

Bugs :
- Sometimes, using crossbow / bow / throwing weapons become impossible. Clicking doesn't do anything. It can work again by throwing weapon away and picking it up again
- On the Aserai desert city map for skirmish, near flag B the sound is broken. You hear the noise made by units above the building as if they were next to you. Unrealistic and disturbing
- Sometimes, when changing weapons, your character changes weapon again or put his shield on his back for no reason
- Leaving a server because an ally is team killing is punishing af... you either get blocked or you have to stay on the server and get a ****ty kill/death/assist ratio

_______

Didn't know where to put this small feedback, so I put it here. Feel free to move it if needed :smile:
Most of this are stats changes to balance the game. What MP people actually want is a gameplay remake. Blancing the game with units stats is useless unless the game actually work.
 

Biyonik

Veteran
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Shouldn't we wait a bit and form our balance opinions on the EU Skirmish tourny? It's clear that people have wildly different takes, and that's because anything will work in pub games. There's no matchmaking making pubs pretty much useless.

The NA tourny had such high skill disparity and didn't have a finals (lmao) so it's a bit hard to tell based on that.
My opinions are mostly from clan wars anyways, but you are right. I for one am curious about the scores, it feels like every match will end up being 3-0 because of the gold system
 

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
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My opinions are mostly from clan wars anyways, but you are right. I for one am curious about the scores, it feels like every match will end up being 3-0 because of the gold system
I'd say that scrim results can be important to. I guess I'm used to games where "scrimbucks" always end up being half wrong.

Yeah the snowballing is pretty intense. NA was mostly 3-0.
 

Ikea Knight

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I'd say that scrim results can be important to. I guess I'm used to games where "scrimbucks" always end up being half wrong.

Yeah the snowballing is pretty intense. NA was mostly 3-0.
For now the tourney is still in pool phase.
I think it will become more interesting when K.O. starts and the skill level will be tighter.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
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Shouldn't we wait a bit and form our balance opinions on the EU Skirmish tourny? It's clear that people have wildly different takes, and that's because anything will work in pub games. There's no matchmaking making pubs pretty much useless.

The NA tourny had such high skill disparity and didn't have a finals (lmao) so it's a bit hard to tell based on that.
Its hard to take too much from that tournament considering the class restrictions. I've asked around and people seem to enjoy the game more, but its a different game than normal Skirmish.
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Subforum Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I didn't mention it, but my post only was about skirmishes, as playing in Asia there is not enough players for the sieges. In this meta, considering the flags, light archers should have better mobility as they can't really hold a flag and they arrows are no match for heavily armored units. Reducing their melee damages would make sense too.

Also, it's just my feedback, and it's influenced by almost 3000 hours of warband lol.
I am also solely talking about Skirmish - the reason they were slowed was because they could just kite, they're not suppose to match infantry if they're sitting on flag, that's not what the purpose of an archer is.
 

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
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Its hard to take too much from that tournament considering the class restrictions. I've asked around and people seem to enjoy the game more, but its a different game than normal Skirmish.
Ah I remember reading that in the rules but I guess I underestimated the impact it would have.