State of Shield Infantry in 1.5.5

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Yans

Sergeant at Arms
WBNW
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We proved that we can win in any way, but winning with limits is just more enjoyable.
What do u mean here? Your random winning against RS back then? Or a match against Gibby's team which didnt have any match experience in Bannerlord?

No doubt you said that after comming from Res background, which hosted limitless tournament that was completly trash (: and force to play limitless so they can spam 5 archers like they do every random skirmish.
No doubt you said it after your team couldn't finish 1st Place =)
I bet BEAST will become completely trash and the game imbalanced/impossible to play for u, if DM will loose to RM or someone else next season. Especially if they will overplay u with "2-2-2 cancer" or something
 

Aprikosenmann

Knight
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Rewind time!

Let's hop back in time to pre 1.4.3, actually let's go back in time before BEAST was even a thing. So, in these far far away times, where infantry was completly broken with fast spears, kicklashes and kickthrows flying wild, double Pila and super fast movement speed. It was so broken, that first tryhard matches were DOMINATED by spam tactics. And now you will say "But Hairless, it's old match and has nothing to do with what's happening now. True. BUT Infantry was hella op back then. And what happend?
Here you see RS vs DM in the beggining of DM. We lost horribly playing 4 inf 2 cav, and then 3 inf 3 cav, aganist argentums superior tactic of increasing their cav number by one over our cav number.
And now look what we have here. Insanely op infantry in number of 5 losing to 2:2:2 then 3 cav 2 archers 1 inf. HMHMHMMHMH
"But Hairless, it's only one match and there is probably skill difference that was major factor of that happening." Yes and no. The skill gap was here, obviously RS was better back then. but the difference wasn't that big. BUT what do we have here? DM vs Gibby drama. And what happend in Khuzait vs Aserai? OVERPOWERED 3 infantry 1 archer 2 cav lost to 3 archers 3 cav.But worry not, we countered it by using 6 cavs. Yeah baby, esport.
1:07:11
So, anyone still arguing about removing limits isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Thats so true. The class limit was introduced when Inf was 10x stronger than now.
 

Hairless

Squire
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What do u mean here? Your random winning against RS back then? Or a match against Gibby's team which didnt have any match experience in Bannerlord?

No doubt you said it after your team couldn't finish 1st Place =)
I bet BEAST will become completely trash and the game imbalanced/impossible to play for u, if DM will loose to RM or someone else next season. Especially if they will overplay u with "2-2-2 cancer" or something
mad cuz bad at inf ok
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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If this community is so intent that cavalry will outshine other classes to the extent that they would become the majority used class without limits, then why is there not a concerted effort being made to make it clear what needs to be fixed? The most I've seen is "buff inf", which seems to exist within the context of a class limit system anyway (because cav are so good) and because inf are frustrated. When I said 6 months ago in combat testing that the top speed of cav should be reduced, everyone said no.

If you think cav can never be adjusted to be somewhat balanced and encourage an inf meta (at least on closed maps), you are wrong. Make it clear what is unacceptable to the devs and ask for these changes in return for limitless tournaments; they seem to actually be listening and reacting quickly (aka within 3 months, no shade boys).
 

Aprikosenmann

Knight
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If this community is so intent that cavalry will outshine other classes to the extent that they would become the majority used class without limits, then why is there not a concerted effort being made to make it clear what needs to be fixed? The most I've seen is "buff inf", which seems to exist within the context of a class limit system anyway (because cav are so good) and because inf are frustrated. When I said 6 months ago in combat testing that the top speed of cav should be reduced, everyone said no.

If you think cav can never be adjusted to be somewhat balanced and encourage an inf meta (at least on closed maps), you are wrong. Make it clear what is unacceptable to the devs and ask for these changes in return for limitless tournaments; they seem to actually be listening and reacting quickly (aka within 3 months, no shade boys).
well it all has been said, but TW never actually nerfed cav. They always give something in return.

Camel; most broken unit of the game. Div.A Cav players have like 700 score/round on a troop that costs 140, way less than heavy inf.

Here is the "Nerf"

  • Decreased the charge damage of the Camel from 13 to 7
  • Decreased the speed of the Camel from 45 to 43
  • Increased the maneuver of the Camel from 70 to 74
Like is this even a nerf? Isnt Maneuver one of the most valuable traits of a horse?
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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They never nerf cav because they think cav is fundamentally ok just needing some stats tweaked or similar. Cav needs an overhaul - less speed, less armour, doesn't just bounce off walls, less drifting at top speed, the lancing animation is pretty strong, pushing troops around so can escape the melee easily, etc.

TW should know this, but the community should be more vocal too. What's the point in class limits when cav are dominant anyway, just less people get to have the fun?
 

Neyzen Tevfik

Knight
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Here is the "Nerf"

  • Decreased the charge damage of the Camel from 13 to 7
  • Decreased the speed of the Camel from 45 to 43
  • Increased the maneuver of the Camel from 70 to 74
Like is this even a nerf? Isnt Maneuver one of the most valuable traits of a horse?
for you but not for them ™. Do you have a proof? They have Statistics. even skirmish is balanced. Didn't you see the numbers they shared, all winrates for the factions are 50% (+-1%) in "no class-restricted" skirmish games. Who is supporting class-restriction is a Terrorist and should be punished with infinite MP Lobby disconnects.
 

Mabons

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I don’t really see why we are arguing from a balance point of view anyways, it’s more to do with playing inf you expect to engage others in melee, if the enemy is all archers and cav you don’t really get that chance, so it’s not fun. Your forced to play archer or cav to tackle these play styles. I don’t think any number of buffs or nerfs is gonna work quite frankly, and it won’t change, if you want to beat archers or cav spam as AVRC pointed out you need to switch to another class, infantry doesn’t work here.
 

Wegnas

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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Archers and cav should only exist to support the protagonist(inf) and anyone who thinks otherwise should be stoned 😤
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
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well it all has been said, but TW never actually nerfed cav. They always give something in return.

Camel; most broken unit of the game. Div.A Cav players have like 700 score/round on a troop that costs 140, way less than heavy inf.

Here is the "Nerf"

  • Decreased the charge damage of the Camel from 13 to 7
  • Decreased the speed of the Camel from 45 to 43
  • Increased the maneuver of the Camel from 70 to 74
Like is this even a nerf? Isnt Maneuver one of the most valuable traits of a horse?
Yes it most definitely is a nerf, 5% buff on maneuver, against 40% of charge damage. Charge is the most valuable on horses.
 
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Aprikosenmann

Knight
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for you but not for them ™. Do you have a proof? They have Statistics. even skirmish is balanced. Didn't you see the numbers they shared, all winrates for the factions are 50% (+-1%) in "no class-restricted" skirmish games. Who is supporting class-restriction is a Terrorist and should be punished with infinite MP Lobby disconnects.
The Question is: Are they observing if teams with more cav have better winrates than teams with less cav....
@AVRC

They never nerf cav because they think cav is fundamentally ok just needing some stats tweaked or similar. Cav needs an overhaul - less speed, less armour, doesn't just bounce off walls, less drifting at top speed, the lancing animation is pretty strong, pushing troops around so can escape the melee easily, etc.

TW should know this, but the community should be more vocal too. What's the point in class limits when cav are dominant anyway, just less people get to have the fun?
Yes!!! It basically needs a rework, tweaks will not do the job. All Im doing on this forum is to complain about inf-cav imbalance.
 

TheBard

Salt Knight
Sergeant Knight at Arms
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May I introduce to you the newest change to the cataphract?

What do we get with this deal?
Spear, 200 Length
Shield
Warhorse, 265 HP, 10 Charge DMG.
Armor as high as Infantry (45).
And now, because this clearly is not enough, the cataphract gets a Bastard Two-Hander with 100 swing speed + >100 dmg

So, once this guy commits a couple of mistakes and actually gets dismounted (LOL), he transforms into Fiann without bow and infantry level of armor (LOL²), able to probably oneshot light units due to high damage bastard weapon (LOL³). I'd say crossfire this dude, I'd not want to take the risk engaging him 1v1. The only downside this dude has is that he won't be able to run away due to his movement speed.
Why? Cataphract before was one of the strongest cavs in the game already, why buff it's capabilities dismounted even further? I will not talk about the charger horse with 13 damage or the introduction of a lance option for the courser. I'll even ignore the crossbow on Palatine Guard.
As long as changes like these are continued to be implemented in the game, cav will stay borderline OP.

Edit: Might never be meta because cavalry players will always go for the horse upgrade but it's a matter of principle. It has been argued that archers should not get strong twohanders and now they introduce them for heavy cav wtf.
 
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TheBard

Salt Knight
Sergeant Knight at Arms
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@TheBard Iirc the Cataphract configuration has not changed since September (at least).

17/09/2020
Last patch, dropping yesterday, brought the bastard axe at least. Before it was a dead perk because everyone would opt for the Agile Horse instead which gave you a sword, instead of the battle axe.
 

Mabons

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Last patch, dropping yesterday, brought the bastard axe at least. Before it was a dead perk because everyone would opt for the Agile Horse instead which gave you a sword, instead of the battle axe.
Uh, to my knowledge the default horse was better on the cataphract as it's charge damage was higher and allowed easier bumpstabs etc. If they changed the stats on the bastard axe to match the infantry ones then thats a yikes for me too but it's probably not that big a deal.
 

Rangah

Sergeant Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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While I do agree that cav is too strong, this is turning into a witch hunt or something. Even if cav were twice as slow, spears could oneshot them and horses would be twice as weak as they are now, they will still be annoying and backstab people, and be the majority of annoying deaths an inf suffers.

People cry about cav to no end while there are still archers with 2handed weapons and oneshotting menavlions, glaives, bardiches and whatnot in the game...