Starting with a blank map??

[Shogyn]

I'm wondering if it is at all possible to create/start making a mod with a blank map first? I'm just starting to dive into learning to mod, have been following Jiks tutorials on a copy of M&B native. It's going great so far!

What I'd like to do as I'm learning to put things into a mod, is have an empty map(saw a good one of europe somewhere) where I could place towns, villages,castles,wandering parties,etc as I go along. I could compile and test every addition I make.
Maybe I could alter a coastline,add a river. Or can I use a map that already has towns and cities on it and add or change them? I mean a map(or small empty mod basically) that I can actually start up and build as I learn different things.

Is this even possible, or feasible as a way to teach myself modding? Do any half completed mods exist that can be used as training tools in this way?
All help greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[Jezze]

I assume you are talking about a world map,

If you know Thogrimms Map Editor, you can start a new blank map with that. You can find it here; http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,5646.0.html

It does however not work really well with Warband, but to resolve this, just edit the map in old mount&blad and then copy it to your warband version.

 

[Shogyn]

Thanks.
I guess I mistakenly said "blank" when I didn't really mean a flat barren piece of land. I do mean world map or a specific realistic area(if possible), and a map that is functioning with terrain,rivers,lakes,mountains,etc that I can start adding towns to. Can I import an already made map into the editor and add or make changes to it?

I do have that editor and am currently trying to learn it, but I think it would take me forever to actually know how to create a whole map that actually is a real map! I don't know if this all is possible or not.
What is 'open source' ? Is that items,scenes,parties,etc that can be inserted into new mods?

 

[Jezze]

Thanks.
I guess I mistakenly said "blank" when I didn't really mean a flat barren piece of land. I do mean world map or a specific realistic area(if possible), and a map that is functioning with terrain,rivers,lakes,mountains,etc that I can start adding towns to. Can I import an already made map into the editor and add or make changes to it?

I do have that editor and am currently trying to learn it, but I think it would take me forever to actually know how to create a whole map that actually is a real map! I don't know if this all is possible or not.
What is 'open source' ? Is that items,scenes,parties,etc that can be inserted into new mods?

A blank map with no parties on it can be made by disabling all parties on the world map. Removing them all would cause a large load of errors by the game. You can disable them by putting pf_disabled in the module_parties.py file if you use the Module System. How to do this by .txt I do not know. Maybe you can do this by using Morgh's model tools.

I can recall that there were some maps made of Europe, but where to find them??

Open Source means that the resources of a mod can be freely used by other people. Usually you need to inform the original creator that you are using his resources. And that can be all kinds of stuff such as scenes, items, scripts etc.

 

[Shogyn]

Thanks for the info!

I'll just have to start reading deeper in the forums I guess. Somebody posted a large map that he said anyone could use, but I'm still not sure exactly how to 'use a map' in a mod!?
The only files included in his download were map.txt,parties.txt, and module.ini. But of course I can't find explicit instructions anywhere on how I can incorporate them into a new mod , or whether they are in fact any use to me at all.
I'm obviously (being brand new to modding) missing a lot when I scan through the titles of all the posts. Not being used to all the terminology I've probably missed a few that are exactly what I'm looking for.

I appreciate the replies though, great forum!!

 

[Malnedra]

shogyn, You really need to understand the difference between the map an the rest of the game...  That means getting the native scripts and understanding how they work..  I understand how you would think to add one thing at a time, but that "one thing" is "all the towns"  not just one...  you can add one town with about the same code of adding 10,000 towns....

So to your question, yes it can be done but there is no reason to, because the code is the same for 1 town or 10k towns... so why would you?

 

[Shogyn]

Thanks Malnedra,

I will have to dig deeper until I understand the relationship between all facets of any given mod. And yes, thats exactly what I am wanting to do(whether I can or not)...add one thing at a time. I understand that armed with the code for 1 town, you can then copy and place 100 identical towns. Which is exactly what I'd like to accomplish. All different locations and names. I want to place Rome where it actually sits, where Carthage and Athens actually are,etc. Then I could (if this is possible) alter certain cities, learning as I go how to add buildings,making major cities larger, other cities unique. I do realize that it can't be that simple though. 

Like I keep saying, if this way of constructing my own little unique mod is possible in the first place, I think it would keep me captivated and motivated enough to keep learning all the other aspects that are involved at the same time, such as scripts,scenes,parties.
I think a major first step to creating anything is to have a vision before you start, and working your way, however slow-moving and repititious it might be, towards your end product. So I have the end vision, and I also have the desired path I want to take to get there. It might take me 10 years to accomplish it, but if it's possible I'd like to try it this way.
That's why I appreciate all the input I've received so far, only you guys know whether I'm wasting my time or not with this method.
Again thx for the advice, I'll start trying to absorb all I can re scripts next!

 

[Abhuva]

@shogyn: There are several options to alter the overland-map, basicly its a type of mesh (the data is stored in map.txt not in a regular obj-file/brf-file like other meshes) and positions of parties (like towns or villages) is stored in parties.txt. The size of the map is regulated in module.ini - that´s why in that download you mentioned there where those 3 files.

To get started with manipulating the map there are several options for you. First (and still easiest imo) is the use of Thorgrims Map Editor, unfortunately this a bit buggy. Also there are some scripts flying around here at the forge that can convert parties.txt to module_parties.py --> When using this method you first alter the map with Thorgrims Editor, this gets saved in map.txt and parties.txt (i guess in native when i remember right -> its a while ago i altered overland map myself) after that you convert the files and copy-paste the info needed (aka the positions of the towns/villages/bridges etc. to your actual parties.py). The map.txt just needs to be copied in the module-base directory, parties.py needs to be compiled.

Another method is to completely build the mesh with a 3d-program (like Wings, or whatever you use) and using another script flying around here that can convert obj-files to map.txt. Seeing as the info about position of parties isnt stored in the mesh you would need to manually place them in the code (this is a bit harder i think).

Also you could use both methods combined, aka building the mesh with 3d-editor and using thorgrims program to place the parties on the map and converting the data received back to py files.

I hope this helps to get you started.

Edit: These links should help to get you started:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,45772.0.html
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,57117.msg1476785.html#msg1476785
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,5646.0.html

 

[Shogyn]

Thanks for the info Abhuva!

Let me see if I have the necessary steps correct....

-- Load map into editor. When I click load in the editor, only a certain amount of maps are available. Think it's just the mods I've downloaded. I can't change those maps can I? Someone put a map out for people to use, what files are needed(and where do I put them?) to make them useable in the editor?

-- After editing a map, I save. I'm assuming it will overwrite the map & parties txt files in the native folder.
-- Find a program that converts parties.txt files into module_parties.py files.
-- Convert the overwritten parties.txt file (from the native folder) into a module_parties.py file.
-- Copy the new module_parties.py file into my new mod folder(which is a copy of the original native folder renamed to whatever I want to call my new mod.)
-- Copy the map.txt file from the original native folder to my new mod folder as well. There should still be a parties.txt file in the native folder shouldn't there? Is that copied to my new folder as well?
-- Compile the new module_parties.py file from my new mod folder. Do I need to have the module_info file targeting my new mod name?

After all that, assuming I've got it all correct, can I now start my new mod and wander around and see if it works? Can I also make additional changes like renaming or adding towns,etc using the module system?

 

[Abhuva]

... sorry my internet timed-out like crazy today... my post got messed up urgently, will try again tomorrow...

 

[Sheriff-murder]

Spoiler

Thanks for the info Abhuva!

Let me see if I have the necessary steps correct....

-- Load map into editor. When I click load in the editor, only a certain amount of maps are available. Think it's just the mods I've downloaded. I can't change those maps can I? Someone put a map out for people to use, what files are needed(and where do I put them?) to make them useable in the editor?

-- After editing a map, I save. I'm assuming it will overwrite the map & parties txt files in the native folder.
-- Find a program that converts parties.txt files into module_parties.py files.
-- Convert the overwritten parties.txt file (from the native folder) into a module_parties.py file.
-- Copy the new module_parties.py file into my new mod folder(which is a copy of the original native folder renamed to whatever I want to call my new mod.)
-- Copy the map.txt file from the original native folder to my new mod folder as well. There should still be a parties.txt file in the native folder shouldn't there? Is that copied to my new folder as well?
-- Compile the new module_parties.py file from my new mod folder. Do I need to have the module_info file targeting my new mod name?

After all that, assuming I've got it all correct, can I now start my new mod and wander around and see if it works? Can I also make additional changes like renaming or adding towns,etc using the module system?

...Why?

 

[Abhuva]

One single time i got a messed up internet and the forum police is around to catch me, eh... i tried like crazy to remove the messed up post in the last hour but my provider is time-out happy today...

 

[Shogyn]

Why would you reply with just "...why?" to my post Graylord?? If I totally have the instructions wrong I'd appreciate correction, or alternative options.

 

[Sheriff-murder]

I didn't reply to you, I replied to Abhuva, he had quoted you for no apparent reason.

 

[Shogyn]

My apologies. Still getting used to making out who's replying to whom with all the quotes. Still a forum newbie! 

 

[Abhuva]

After yesterday my connection died several times while posting a reply (and during it posted a messed up reply which leads to confusion) i will try again today =)

-- Load map into editor. When I click load in the editor, only a certain amount of maps are available. Think it's just the mods I've downloaded. I can't change those maps can I? Someone put a map out for people to use, what files are needed(and where do I put them?) to make them useable in the editor?

You can change/load every map you have available, all things needed is the map.txt and the parties.txt. I used to edit my maps in the following way: i used a clean install from m&b and copied my map.txt and parties.txt from my mod in the native - module (was easiest cause thorgrimms editor was a bit buggy for me while loading from different modules)

-- After editing a map, I save. I'm assuming it will overwrite the map & parties txt files in the native folder.
-- Find a program that converts parties.txt files into module_parties.py files.
-- Convert the overwritten parties.txt file (from the native folder) into a module_parties.py file.
-- Copy the new module_parties.py file into my new mod folder(which is a copy of the original native folder renamed to whatever I want to call my new mod.)

After you converted the new parties.txt (in native module) dont just blindly copy this into your actual mod. Instead open it in a text editor and copy-paste the needed data into your mods-parties.py --> this way you prevent errors and lost data. In parties.py are all infos regarding coordinates, names, ai-behavior etc.. also from parties not known back when thorgrimms editor was released (like spawn points for the hide-outs)

-- Copy the map.txt file from the original native folder to my new mod folder as well. There should still be a parties.txt file in the native folder shouldn't there? Is that copied to my new folder as well?
-- Compile the new module_parties.py file from my new mod folder. Do I need to have the module_info file targeting my new mod name?

You can copy the map.txt to your new module. But parties.txt you dont need, this will be created when compiling your new modified module-system (and your modified parties.py)

Regarding the module_info : Its the first thing i would do when starting a new mod, setting up the target-path in modules_info.py.
Basicly you copy the native-module, rename the folder, copy a fresh module system in there (it doesnt really matter where its located but i find it easier to have all data in one place ... you could also copy the module-system anywhere on the hard-drive).
After that open module_info.py and changing the output-path to your actual new module.

Compile once to see if all is set up right.

You can change everything regarding the parties (names, behaviour, position etc...). For a deeper understanding i would recommend to read the Unofficial Tutorials (they are a bit outdated but the main-things are still the same)