Starting to get tedious :(

[RollTheBones]

I am level 15, my party is usually around 40-45 and sometimes I even manage to keep some of those idiots alive.  I am King Ragnars vassal and we are at war with Rhodoks and Khergit (sp?).  It seems that Ragnar always wants me to join in his sieges, and they are so long and tedious that I am not really sure I even enjoy it.  What gets me is we confront the armies and it says something like "You have 543 forces against their 200". 

So I go in , mop up and think I am done.  But immediatly the battle starts again.  And again.  And again.  And again.  I usually limp out of there with about 5% health an hour later and dont feel like I accomlished much, my army is wiped out and I have to go get raw recruits again.

Also I noticed that  I seem to have to hit an enemy about 15 times to kill them.  No matter what I do, they fall over and get right back up again. 

Arg....

 

[lockjaw]

So I go in , mop up and think I am done.  But immediatly the battle starts again.  And again.  And again.  And again.  I usually limp out of there with about 5% health an hour later and dont feel like I accomlished much, my army is wiped out and I have to go get raw recruits again.

For game mechanics reasons, there is a limit on the total number of troops that can fight during any battle (under options, it's battle size).  In order to win an engagement, you have to kill or injure all the troops on the opposing side, which will take more than one battle for large groups.  A mod called Battlesizer exists, which can increase the limit to a number which is quite high, but then you will probably see a lot of lag...

If your army gets wiped out so easily, you probably aren't using any type of tactics.  Pressing Backspace (or perhaps shift-o as default, can't remember), you will open a strategy screen.  From here, you can see how many troops are on each side, and you can give orders to your troops.  There is also a mini-map which will show you the location of all troops.

Also I noticed that  I seem to have to hit an enemy about 15 times to kill them.  No matter what I do, they fall over and get right back up again. 

Arg....

This could be because your character is not very good at fighting, or you are not yet used to the controls.  Practice makes perfect.

 

[Lord Shields]

You need to get involved in the siege. climb the ramp and jump over the defenders then hack at them from behind (maybe first going for their archers... that's what I do). I have yet to fight a siege that lasted more than 5 minutes. If you're fighting a siege and having to do it multiple times it's because you are getting knocked out. The only time you fight more than once is in a town where you fight on the ramparts, the streets, then in the keep.

If you're talking about a ground battle... you need to re-work your tactics. What you should do is set your guys to hold at the start. I race out and hack down their cavalry then return to my lines taking almost no damage. By then they should be fairly close to my Infantry so I sent them on a charge. After they attack a bit, I fall back and tell them to hold the spot as new enemies arrive (so we don't spread too thin).

I do this two or three times and eventually they get cut down with almost no casualties on my end. A normal ground battle will take at most 15 minutes. If you let them run off after cavalry they could chase them around the map forever. So you need to keep them close by and keep an eye on what they're doing.

If you are losing a ton of guys... you need to level them up before committing them to big battles. Try going after Sea Raiders or other random troops before you attack armies. If the King is telling you to join a siege, let him go first and dwindle down the troops for a day or so, then join. Same for a ground battle. If the battle looks like it's not in your favor, then don't join it. You'll lose a little standing with the King but it's better than getting captured and losing all of your gear.

As for troops getting back up... add points to the strike and weapon you're using for increased damage. If you're riding and hitting them, you might not be hitting them with the weapon but the horse. Hence why they get back up. Shift to the side more when you strike. Also keep in mind that more damage is dealt to upper body so strike for the head, neck, and chest. Don't just swing wildly... you can aim where you want to hit them.

At level 15 you're just starting out. I was more than halfway to that point just in an hour of playing the demo. So you definitely need to keep playing more and learning how each weapon is controlled by the mouse.

 

[ddrake]

Sometimes is also a mistake to try to do too much with too little. Like getting into the bigger battles when you still have to develop your character and party members well.
Before joining any faction you could stay on your own, killing bandits and doing commerce in order to get practice, money and equipment. Also find some companions and upgrade them wisely.
You may try different weapons than the one you are using now. 15 hits to kill an enemy? that's odd unless you are using a rusty knife against a mail-armored opponent.
If you join battle with other friendly lords you may decide to stay back (F1- hold position) with your troops and support the allies with ranged fire.. just try to avoid hitting Ragnar in the head! 

 

[RollTheBones]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

If your army gets wiped out so easily, you probably aren't using any type of tactics.  Pressing Backspace (or perhaps shift-o as default, can't remember), you will open a strategy screen.

I use this, its a race to get the "Everyone! Follow Me" out before my calvary is halfway across the map.  Is there a way to change the default starting action from "Run at top speed to our deaths" to "Follow Me"? 

I try to get the archers on a hill and hold there, with infantry advancing slowly and calvary following me until I am ready to charge.  It still seems to be a soup sandwich tho, a lot of the time I give an order then a few minutes later notice the group I ordered to do something is still stuck on their previous order....arg!

This could be because your character is not very good at fighting, or you are not yet used to the controls.  Practice makes perfect.

I am not sure which it is; I fight on horseback and know about aiming to the side.  Occasionally I get that nice sound of a blade slicing and they drop dead.  More often its a thump and they fall down and get back up again. I have no idea what my equipment is like, its the best I can afford right now.

If you're fighting a siege and having to do it multiple times it's because you are getting knocked out.

My mistake, its not really a siege but large battles right outside of a castle; it appears this army is getting ready to siege....either way I am not getting knocked out.  I "win" every one of these battles, I thnk I am done but the battle screen comes up again with no time to heal or anything.
My only option is to fight or surrender. 

f you are losing a ton of guys... you need to level them up before committing them to big battles. Try going after Sea Raiders or other random troops before you attack armies.

How high do these idiots have to be?  Most of my nords are veterans, a few are huscarls.  I started out with 10 Vaiger archers but all I have left is two marksmen.  I am trying to raise a cavalry element as well but the swadians never survive long enough.   If I try to level on raiders and looters, Ragnar calls me back and gets ticked if I dont come help.  I am about ready to ditch that guy...if I do leave, does that mean I can not join him again later?  I am a Nord at heart and want to eventually join them.

As for troops getting back up... add points to the strike and weapon you're using for increased damage. If you're riding and hitting them, you might not be hitting them with the weapon but the horse. Hence why they get back up. Shift to the side more when you strike. Also keep in mind that more damage is dealt to upper body so strike for the head, neck, and chest. Don't just swing wildly... you can aim where you want to hit them.

Good to know, thanks!

 

[Mabons]

f you are losing a ton of guys... you need to level them up before committing them to big battles. Try going after Sea Raiders or other random troops before you attack armies.

How high do these idiots have to be?  Most of my nords are veterans, a few are huscarls.  I started out with 10 Vaiger archers but all I have left is two marksmen.  I am trying to raise a cavalry element as well but the swadians never survive long enough.   If I try to level on raiders and looters, Ragnar calls me back and gets ticked if I dont come help.  I am about ready to ditch that guy...if I do leave, does that mean I can not join him again later?  I am a Nord at heart and want to eventually join them.

SCREW RAGNAR. ANARCHY FTW.

No, but seriosuly, just ignore him. Go build up and do stuff, rather than the suicidal "l0l l33t 5upa h4x0r" approach, which results in you getting hammered from all sides by Khergit arrows.

 

[Shire]

So I go in , mop up and think I am done.  But immediatly the battle starts again.  And again.  And again.  And again.  I usually limp out of there with about 5% health an hour later and dont feel like I accomlished much, my army is wiped out and I have to go get raw recruits again.

If you get the battlesize changer and your hardware can take it, you can field like 100vs100 or 200vs200 and get the battle done in a single combat with few reinforcement waves. Mine can't so I have no idea how well you can control or even contribute in those fights (I'd assume becoming the target of 40 crossbowmen would be a quick death)

I play with 100 size so it's around 50 per side, give or take a few depending on tactics skill, but it's quite ridiculous that I can wipe whole armies by myself as long as my horse stays alive

Also I noticed that  I seem to have to hit an enemy about 15 times to kill them.  No matter what I do, they fall over and get right back up again.

Lack of weapon skill / power strike? Bad weapon? Maybe they blocked or parried. Sometimes your horse just runs them down before you get a chance to hit them so they might fall over and get up or take some minor dmg (or moderate if you are running full gallop on a charger :p)

But I play archers, 1 shot to the head or 2 to the legs and they are dead, some heaviest knights might take 3 to the legs/chest, but meh. When they zerg around my cavalry I can just keep shooting as quick as it's possible to draw the bow and kill stuff with an arrow in the head. Try different combat styles. (horse) Archery is probably amont the strongest and easiest to survive choices, lancing is another good one. Being a foot soldier takes a bit of playing to get used to (never really liked it much).


About the tactics, you are quite limited by the game on them, there's honestly not much room to it (or need to) as the AI also has like 3 different behaviours - charge, move slowly in a formation or camp in a formation. Full cavalry army is effective vs pretty much everything, just charge them in, break their lines yourself a bit first if possible (ride close, through, try get them chase you). It gets boring after a while but it works.
I prefer a cavalry + archer setup, line up the archers on a hill with cavalry behind them, let the enemy eat some arrows and then get charged by cav when they near, then I pull the cav behind archers again when the enemy's next wave spawns. Hopefully M&B2 or some patch ahead brings some life to formations and tactics being actually used and AI commanders who actually do something.

And on that breath, they could do something with when the player gets knocked out, your men just turn tail for some reason which makes no bloody sense >< At least if I do same to the enemy they should act the same.

 

[Burch]

You are most likely hitting them with the horse if you are hearing a thump and knocking them down. However, you may also be swinging your weapon too late causing it to be blocked or not hit effectively. Speed of the horse is also a factor if you are standing still or barely moving hacking at someone you will do very little damage.

Battle sizer will reduce the number of times you have to fight the mini battles. The default setting is rather low so in a battle with 200 total troops you may have to fight several times to resolve the battle. Set the slider higher to reduce the number of times you have to fight to resolve the battle. For instance if you set it at 100 then 100 of the 200 troops can occupy the feild, resolution will take 2 possibly three mini fights. If size is set to 50 then you are looking at 5 or 6 mini fights to resolve.

Unfortunately there isnt a way to set what your troops do before the battle starts. I always hit 1 (everyone) f1 (hold position) or f2 (following me) as soon as i spawn. That will keep eveyone from running off, then you can position them.

Adding points to surgery skill will save you alot of troops. It causes them to have a greater chance to be knocked unconcious rather than killed.

Charge into and thru groups of enemiy troops that are ganging up on one of your troops, a lot of times knocking them down will cause them to chase you and save your guy.

 

[Bent Barbed Arrows]

Long battles can get pretty tedious if you're not in the mood for gratuitous carnage.  Especially when you don't feel like you or your party are really a contributing factor.  For that reason I wish the AI could make use of the "leave" or "surrender" options and give the player credit for a victory without having to go through all those consecutive slaughters.

To relieve the tedium I would reccomend fighting some enemy lords with whom you're roughly evenly matched, just your party vs. theirs.  Maybe go caravan raiding.  Or fight against terrible odds.  It may be maddening, but it won't be tedious! 

As for the hitting the enemy 15 times, that could be your horse connecting like others have suggested.  A low damage hit also makes a "thwhack" rather than the lovely "shlink" when you score a lacerating blow.  When doing melee on horseback, speed and power strike are your friends.  At a gallop and with a few points in power strike you can reliably get 50-60 or more damage with a swing, even with a mediocre weapon.  Make sure you're aiming low enough to connect, and the best time to strike is just when your victim is going offscreen.  Pick your victims one at a time and avoid groups.  With practice, you can do a move where your horse bumps the enemy and you strike him as he staggers-very useful for killing shielded guys.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

If your army gets wiped out so easily, you probably aren't using any type of tactics.  Pressing Backspace (or perhaps shift-o as default, can't remember), you will open a strategy screen.

I use this, its a race to get the "Everyone! Follow Me" out before my calvary is halfway across the map.  Is there a way to change the default starting action from "Run at top speed to our deaths" to "Follow Me"?

Not that I know of.

I try to get the archers on a hill and hold there, with infantry advancing slowly and calvary following me until I am ready to charge.

Just wait for them to come up to your archers and have your infantry intercept them in the last minute.

I am not sure which it is; I fight on horseback and know about aiming to the side.  Occasionally I get that nice sound of a blade slicing and they drop dead.  More often its a thump and they fall down and get back up again. I have no idea what my equipment is like, its the best I can afford right now.

How about you try not hitting them with the horse before you hit them? Like have you actually tried riding past beside the opponent and whacking them with an outstretched right arm swing?
It sounds to me like you're just running them over with the front of your horse and swinging at the air intending to kill someone. That would explain why it takes 15 attacks to kill someone.

My mistake, its not really a siege but large battles right outside of a castle; it appears this army is getting ready to siege....either way I am not getting knocked out.  I "win" every one of these battles, I thnk I am done but the battle screen comes up again with no time to heal or anything.

As said, the battle sizer made by one of the admins here is quite the utility. Check my sig to a link to his thread.

How high do these idiots have to be?  Most of my nords are veterans, a few are huscarls.  I started out with 10 Vaiger archers but all I have left is two marksmen.  I am trying to raise a cavalry element as well but the swadians never survive long enough.   If I try to level on raiders and looters, Ragnar calls me back and gets ticked if I dont come help.  I am about ready to ditch that guy...if I do leave, does that mean I can not join him again later?  I am a Nord at heart and want to eventually join them.

Have any surgery skill? They'll live longer, or better yet get a companion with the surgery skill.

 

[RollTheBones]

How about you try not hitting them with the horse before you hit them? Like have you actually tried riding past beside the opponent and whacking them with an outstretched right arm swing?
It sounds to me like you're just running them over with the front of your horse and swinging at the air intending to kill someone. That would explain why it takes 15 attacks to kill someone.

Believe me, I am not just running them over; I understand the mechanics.  I try to get as much speed as I can, lean left or right depending on where my target is, and try to time my swing as I am passing by.  I am not just running head first into them.  Occasionally that happens by accident so I know what that is.  Even when I connect (left or right) I dont slow down at all (which is what happens when you just hit them with the horse) and I see them fall over then get back up again.  About the only thing that kills in one hit is a lance/spear, which I use, but only if I am in an open enough area.

Maybe I should post my stats and gear or something?

 

[Kazdum]

I dont really know whats wrong, unless you are fighting elite troops or something like that, they mostly should die if you have decent stats and gear. I always aim for the Neck, when you hit their necks its pretty much a one shot, watch carefully when you hit to see where the blood came from.

 

[ddrake]

Maybe I should post my stats and gear or something?

That may explain something. Even enemy lords can be killed in one hit with a sword from horse if done properly. As you gain higher level you will find things easier though

 

[Swadius 2.0]

I think you may be timing the strikes wrong, are you hitting the person at the end of a strike, ie. as opposed to the beginning of it?

 

[psfalk]

About the tactics, you are quite limited by the game on them, there's honestly not much room to it (or need to) as the AI also has like 3 different behaviours - charge, move slowly in a formation or camp in a formation. Full cavalry army is effective vs pretty much everything, just charge them in, break their lines yourself a bit first if possible (ride close, through, try get them chase you). It gets boring after a while but it works.
I prefer a cavalry + archer setup, line up the archers on a hill with cavalry behind them, let the enemy eat some arrows and then get charged by cav when they near, then I pull the cav behind archers again when the enemy's next wave spawns. Hopefully M&B2 or some patch ahead brings some life to formations and tactics being actually used and AI commanders who actually do something.

And on that breath, they could do something with when the player gets knocked out, your men just turn tail for some reason which makes no bloody sense >< At least if I do same to the enemy they should act the same.

You might want to try the tactics mod...it has some limited formations as well as a morale influence (they run to a certain part of the map and run around hap-hazardly) The ai does a fairly good job of it, at least when I've fought the Nords they've always set up archers on my weapon side and sent the infantry in on the other flank.  The morale is based on unit level and health, so if you knock out a lord they're more likely to run than if you hit a recruit. It's fun running them down as they flee...they still fight back as they go, but definitely much easier.

 

[LBaeldeth]

This "thunk" sound ... it sounds to me like you're using a weapon with good reach (bastard sword, bardiche, two-handed sword) but are passing by too close to the enemy. When you swing a weapon with long reach in close, you'll do almost no damage, and you get a 'thunk' sound instead of a slice. Try passing by a little further away and see if you can get slices more reliably.

 

[RollTheBones]

Ok, I got the battle sizer mod.  Wow!    Sure is  fun seeing hordes of soldiers running around.  That takes care of the constant mini battle thing, and it appears my PC is up to the task.

The advice to be a little further away has helped a ton!  That is something I never thought about and it seems like I was too close before.

Thanks a million guys!  Cant stick around because Ragnar needs more cattle.   

 

[lockjaw]

Thanks a million guys!  Cant stick around because Ragnar needs more cattle.   

Talking about tedious.....