Star Citizen (Wing Commander MP successor)

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Fine, I've gotten on my computer off my phone so I can actually look this stuff up.

Starting with the "cheaper" $150+ ships.

The RSI Constellation, of which there are hundreds sold, is listed as a freighter, yes, but it's clearly a large multi-person gunship that will easily take on at least one if not several single-person ships.

The Hornet and Freelancer fall into the same category, although they're single person, the fact still stands that they are 'top-of-the-line advanced special edition' fighters that will undoubtedly outclass most of their equivalents.

Then there are the $200+ ships like the Retaliator 8-person strike ship or Vanduul Scythe which is nearly as large as those but only one person, certainly making up for that by being absurdly well armed and fast.

Then there are the Idris Frigates which are like $500 dollars or something that are 10+ people, if you think that those will be easy to get and even remotely feasible for the average player to do anything but die to, well, I've got some nice games by EA to sell you.

That's without getting into the ridiculously large carriers and stuff I've heard of being sold because I can't remember what they are called.

It's also just going off of roughly how the ships are described without considering the fact that the actual stats on these ships like HP and damage on their weapons will probably be inflated considerably.

But hey, blindly believe anything Roberts says, it's your money, not mine.

There appears to be talk of some joystick fix, that is supposed to decrease this disparity, but if it ends up being War Thunder in space, I am going to pass. I don't hate or love using a mouse in a space sim or flight sim, but having survived War Thunder, I have no interest of ever again playing anything that claims to be about flying that focuses on "aiming" 1000x more than actually flying.
I missed this and the rest about mouse aim, I'd say that it's unlikely they'll ever make joy sticks a better option, it's a main stream popular MMO, they're not going to cut off parts of their user base by requiring non-standard hardware.
 
It's not about making the Joystick better, but a viable option to begin with. Which does not mean they have to make mouse-aim useless.

Anyway, regarding the ships, as I've said I haven't give him a single cent as I fear the feature creep will be the doom if this. And he will not get a cent until I see a clear end-goal and actual gameplay indicative of the finished product emerge from the whole mess.
On a sidenote and as a last snide remark, this started because you went on about how the very expensive ships like the 2000 buck  ones wouldn't be achievable in a "reasonable" time-frame. Going back from that and using your logic the 500 ones - while they will definitely be dominating on release, no doubt about that. Ships of that tpye are what's making the arena so retarded to play at the moment - should be achievable considerably more quickly by in-game means, making them less of a problem. :razz:


But you clearly expect the worst out of the ships, while I am willing give him the benefit of the doubt here. We can probably end the "no you" debate here then as well.
 
Wellenbrecher said:
It's not about making the Joystick better, but a viable option to begin with. Which does not mean they have to make mouse-aim useless.

This, I don't expect them to make JS a requirement nor the clearly superior option. Balance could of course come from a number of tactics, they could make gimbals "track" a locked target when the targeting brakets are close enough like in ED, they could make M & KB users have to actually control the ships axis with the M & KB controls or some other option.

However, I do hope they actually balance controls or rather don't make the game focus 99% on aiming, which makes for a pretty boring game. It's why War Thunder is such crap, because in any mode but sim mode, it's about aiming, not flying nor really any tactics other than "how do I aim the quickest".

Essentially, I want to see space ship combat not a pseudo-FPS in space (unless we are talking about the promised FPS portion of the game  :wink:).
 
@Wellenbrecher: That's a lot of should-bes, though, since when has a game ever acted the way it should instead of the way that makes money... like selling over-powered items to people for money. I just don't see a reason to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, whenever microtransactions are involved (although I suppose micro isn't quite so suitable in this instance) the game is ****, or at least grossly imbalanced. I've never seen an exception to this except in the rare cases where the merchandise is purely cosmetic ala DoTA.

Even selling level 90 characters, something that's obviously achievable, in WoW grossly ****ed with the game's balance and flow.

The thing is, not everyone will have that stuff a year from now, people who don't play the game the game every day and save it for the weekends probably won't, people who start playing later than release won't.

Further, clans will grow up around these ships. They will dominate the early game and continue to dominate the game because the strongest and largest clans will be built up around these pledgers. It'd be like if when EVE was released, some people had Capitals right away. They would have instantly been able to start massively powerful corporations while going around kicking other people's teeth in, and have such an initial advantage that they would still exist months, if not years, down the line.

It's just a lot of faith in that not only will an MMO from a company with no oversight and no experience will be properly balanced, but that they care that it's properly balanced rather than caring how many ships they can sell.

Úlfheðinn said:
This, I don't expect them to make JS a requirement nor the clearly superior option.
Oh yeah, I got that, it's just that the particular problem that's there right now isn't so easily fixed so that they are balanced. I don't think it's really feasible to balance joystick and mouse and keyboard, which is why War Thunder was so different in that it was a necessity to have one.

It's also not really a focus because with the amount of backers they have, I'd say it's pretty easy to assume most of them do not have or want joysticks.
 
****ing cloudfare bull**** killed this post thrice now.



People who do not play the game regularly are incredibly unlikely to ever get that stuff or can even expect to be able to tackle that kind of player regardless of their oponent getting the ship as a pair for pre-order bonus or through in-game means though. :neutral:
The clans thing is true, but I actually do hope that they will allow that kinda thing. It makes for an interesting meta, like EVE. Only hopefully with gameplay that's actually worth a damn.


Úlfheðinn said:
However, I do hope they actually balance controls or rather don't make the game focus 99% on aiming, which makes for a pretty boring game.

That was the expression I was looking for, yeah.
I'd hope the game will be about steering the ship and not be about controlling the reticule with the ship following that automatically.

And yeah, Elite: Dangerous' gimbaled weapons are a good example as to how to do this.
 
To be honest, I don't see it as just as JS vs. M & KB problem, it's more of a fundamental combat mechanics problem and a major one that ruins the game.

There needs to be a balance between the importance of maneuvering, aiming and tactics in any game of this nature (anything that focuses on some sort of "dogfighting" or close range combat at high speeds).

The gigantic and terrible problem with SC at the moment is that aiming is king by a ridiculous amount due to how they have setup M & KB controls.

An example of why this sucks in practice is Arena Commander, it has essentially been reduced to the Super-Hornet killing every other similarly sized fighter because it's turret and weapons are perfect for this "aiming-eccentric" gameplay. The game then becomes purely a matter of picking the best turning ship with the most gimballed weapons and then simply throwing your mouse across the screen and holding down the trigger at the appropriate times. To me that seems like a gigantic waste of what could be an incredibly deep combat sim.
 
Oh and Wellen, sorry if I seemed somewhat acidic, it just gets old seeing this fanboyed and lauded as a new era everywhere constantly for the last two years.
 
Austupaio said:
it just gets old seeing this fanboyed and lauded as a new era everywhere constantly for the last two years.
I hear ya. And I've been excited too, until I saw that footage from the CitizenCon event. Then it occurred to me to wonder how much of their backers' money is being spent on PR fests like that, and how much time are they going to spend making new (and in some cases limited edition) ship variants for people to gobble up before there's even a game to use many of those ships in, and how long before the devs get their **** together enough to make their game live up to Chris Roberts' promises. Also, another buggy stage demo. Perfect. Because that's about what we've com to expect from SC, isn't it? Buggy stage demos showing off stuff, delayed and re-delayed updates for Arena Commander (which also has its share of issues as I understand it, even though it's been available for a while now), and very little that will be important in the final game being made testable in AC (which is an alpha test, after all). Instead there's stuff like the hanger skins and the racing mode. I know that there's a lot of coding involved in developing the major features of a game of the scale that they're talking about, and that the work will take a long time, but this is how I feel. I'm not saying I'm right, necessarily, I'm just saying how I feel about the game right now.
 
Austupaio said:
Oh and Wellen, sorry if I seemed somewhat acidic, it just gets old seeing this fanboyed and lauded as a new era everywhere constantly for the last two years.
Nah, 'tis very much alright. I understand why folks are wary of this, like I said I am as well.
For different reasons, sure, but I am.
 
Arvenski said:
Then it occurred to me to wonder how much of their backers' money is being spent on PR fests like that

Barely any if there is even a cost to them at all. They sold tickets to the show that I assume covered their venue and besides this they have only been at smaller booths during conventions and never have had to pay for anything (At pax east I believe it was they simply shared a booth with logitech).

Their PR is working pretty well for them if you just look at their sales from last week alone where they raised over 1 million in just a single day https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

The game still won't be out for another year or more but people like to complain about little things it seems. The problem people have just seems to be about stuff normal development cycles wouldn't be showing you but they are just more open about everything.
 
Æthelwulf said:
Been thinking about selling my LTI ship for a tasty profit, but I wanna hold out until I think the feature creep is really nailing it.
Daaaaamn. Just checked the prices for LTI ships for the first time...I could make a nice profit there myself for my 2 LTI ships. It's not like I can use them yet anyway, only look at them in the Space Garage Simulator.
Very tempting to sell them now, and then just get the cheapest ship package once the persistent universe starts hitting beta or so, in 2037.
 
My Rear Admiral - LTI package, which was $250 originally, is now going for $420. Guess I should wait till it hits $500.
Not seen a listing yet for a LTI Super Hornet not part of a package.
 
I'll just leave this here :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14314-Star-Citizen-Anniversary-Sale
 
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