Standing on ones stirrups

[Batbold]

Seeing how much attention went into horseback riding and mounted combat, I thought it might not be too excessive to offer this suggestion. In Mongolian culture, saddles are made such that the rider almost literally sits over the stirrups--which themselves are short with very wide bases. Because of it, sitting in this saddle is an acquired skill, to say the least, but even among the Mongols there is a fair amont of standing on ones stirrups. In fact, unless ones pony is going no faster than a slow trot, most Mongolian riders tend to prefer standing for long stretches. A classic picture of a Mongol rider is one in which the rider is standing as the pony moves along at a canter. Many Mongol riders are so smooth in this gait that if one looks only at their head there is no bobbing to be noticed, almost as if the rider is sliding across the steppes at speed.

I'm wondering if there may yet be a means to implement this in the game, possibly limiting it to steppe characters/cultures?

Regards,
Batbold

 

[Sir Prince]

OR have it hooked into the khergis npcs and weapons/armour somehow. Or jsut use it for horse archer's.

 

[Batbold]

Maybe I spoke too soon. Looking at the conceptual art of Hilmi, it seems she is very aware of how Mongol (and Turkish) riding differed from European methods. The suggestion is minor really, and given such detail to the horse in this game, such a suggestion is not important

Regards,
Batbold

 

[Volkier]

I believe it was in intention for the mongols to have better accuracy, since it would reduce the movement that a rider gets from the horse. Forward seat is pretty much similar, although at the same time somewhat different. People do practice 'upgright stance' in arab tribes and such, but there is not really a lot of point to it unless u wish to shoot a gun from a moving horse... The so called 'standing' does not become difficult with different speeds of the horse either, so it would make no difference to the rider whether to stand while the horse is cantering or walking.

Personally I don't see how this would have any effect on the game, or how it would improve the game in any way. Sorry for not supporting the suggestion ::\

 

[Poil]

Easier to hit mounted foes with arrows/bolts?

 

[Gilrain]

Knights, I believe, would stand when jousting, just before impact. They would stand and lean forward, pushing back in the stirrups, effectively adding the horses weight to their own.

 

[Orion]

Maybe I spoke too soon. Looking at the conceptual art of Hilmi, it seems she is very aware of how Mongol (and Turkish) riding differed from European methods. The suggestion is minor really, and given such detail to the horse in this game, such a suggestion is not important

Regards,
Batbold

Or maybe Hilmi doesn't know everything about Mongolian culture, or (s)he didn't illustrate a Mongolian horseman doing that exact thing.

However, I totally disagree with your second post in this thread.

It is VERY important, and perhaps it would require an encumbrance that is = to or < than 35. Or, better yet... a riding skill of at least 6, or something like that.

Pressing a certain button would allow you to stand in the stirrups while going at a certain speed (you do know you can alter your speed by tapping the forward/backward buttons, right?)

Speed < or = to 6, then you can stand in stirrups, however, if speed > 6, then you can not stand. Horse archers would love that, but it makes them vulnerable to attacks (they're moving slower... duh!)

 

[Volkier]

But how does speed affect the ability of standing in the stirrups? Its not harder or anything if the horse is moving faster ::\ Furthermore, its nothin more difficult than shooting a bow in the first place, and you would most probably go into forward seat or 'stand' to shoot anyways, so basically your 'horse archery' skill already covers it in a sense of you being more capable with a bow, on top of a horse... I can see why having a button, which would make you more accurate but make you a bigger target with a reasonable explanation could add onto the game, but I personally think that this is the first thing mounted archers would learn, then work on their accuracy.. Just doesn't really seem to make sense thats all :

What I wouldn't mind however, is a button which makes you crouch over your horse's neck, so that if you don't have a shield and are charging a bunch of enemy archers you can crouch towards your horse making you a smaller target. Draw-back could be that you would not be able to attack in such stance, and can be restricted to non-plate armor users? (Plate armor would unbalance you, the horse, and would be difficult to bend in the first place)

 

[Damien]

It's worth noting that plenty of European tack was set up so that the saddles were low enough that the rider was at once both sitting in his saddle and standing in his stirrups. It's not a strictly Eastern concept.

 

[Volkier]

Errr... you can adjust your stirrups to any length, so if you wish to make them higher or lower is up to you... Has been like so since saddles were invented, because everyone is different height / grows up...
Saddles like Australian stock saddle, would not be as comfortable to stand up in since the knee flaps are hard and stick out, supposingly in the shape of your leg. Not sure which saddles Europeans used in medieveal (although Im sure its something different from what we use today) but I would think it was a simple saddle, with stirrups. I do know that knights would use a saddle with high back and front, making it somewhat like a seat which will hold the knight in place, those would be a pain to stand up in, but the saddles which are currently in game, would have absolutely no problem.

Only problem I see however, is that saddles in game currently have NO stirrups :

LoL

 

[Ryuta]

It is a method of horseriding in asia (includes Japan) where the tradition of horse-archery is strong. It is made as such that you can stand, or more presisely, raising your hip from the saddle and absorb the jolting with your knees to steady the aim.

I was once thinking of suggesting but thought it a minor issue so I didn't.

I remember reading a book about historical horseriding saying mediaval knight used long stirrups (so the legs were always depicted as straight) which enable to withstand the shock of impact upon lancing but reduced the efficiency of control.

 

[Damien]

Haha.. I never really noticed that, but you're right... they have no stirrups.

The New Encyclopedia of the Horse ~ Elwyn Hartley Edwards goes into short detail on medieval saddles, if you ever happen across it in the book store.

 

[Volkier]

They also have no reins or bridles. Horses run around with their head-collars on :

Now we do not 100% know what era M&B is supposingly set in, but stirrup was invented to aid knights in general. Romans, didn't use much of cavalry, and I'm very sure stirrup was not invented at that time yet. (Despite what hollywood and 'spartacus' may want you to think :)

Then again we don't know if stirrup was used by everyone in the first place in whatever era M&B is supposingly set, and whether it was used at all, since history can never be 100% accurate. However, considering that currently the models in game do not do anything on horses which requires a stirrup (except for mounting, where they would 'lean' onto empty air), I don't think there should be much worry regarding this. Personally I would think horses need a lot of other things expanded, which are waaaay more important than stirrups and how standing in them would affect the gameplay, but that is just my oppinion ;

 

[Ryuta]

I think stirrups were introduced about 10th century, or a bit earlier. As far as I know normans used them. so I think stirrups are well into M&B's time. I, however, don't mind not seeing them in game.

Roman used saddle with four horns which grip the rider's hip so that you won't thrown out of saddle when lancing. For another nations, I don't know.

 

[Volkier]

Actually, Romans had a lot of different saddles if I am not mistaken, but none had stirrups. Current M&B saddles, would have very high back and front, so that the rider is wedged in between and doesnt get thrown off easily. Forgot the official name for those saddles, but now that I come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I read that those saddles were the first version of 'knights' saddles, just before the stirrup was invented...

By the way, I honestly think that we should have different armor for horses : I mean one of the main reasons I don't use a charger, is because I think he is a bit over-armored and looks like a tin-can instead of a horse :

 

[Olorin]

this is kin dof unrelated, but if you are fully armored with nice thick plate mail and the likes, then you should not be able to mount a horse (I mean you would need pages and the works to get on a horse when you are fully armored), so if you dismount, then you cant mount again

may sound stupid, probably already suggested oh well sry

 

[Volkier]

Maybe horses in M&B were made so undersized specifically for that cause? lol
Well they are.... can't help saying it :

 

[Tarrak]

The stirrup came to Europe with the Huns and was adopted by the Roman Empire in its dying days. But initially it was only a single sirrup used for mounting... I'm not certain when it was considered clever to add a second stirrup, but I can't beleive it would be have been that much later.

Olorin, you are thinking of jousting armour, which was indeed 'too' heavy to use properly, but then again it was supposed to protect it's wearer perfectly.
Battlearmour was much more pleasant to wear, and knights could easily mount their horses unless they were those pen-knights that sat and did nothing. Real knights could jump onto their horses without using stirrups if they felt like bragging a little.

 

[Olorin]

The stirrup came to Europe with the Huns and was adopted by the Roman Empire in its dying days. But initially it was only a single sirrup used for mounting... I'm not certain when it was considered clever to add a second stirrup, but I can't beleive it would be have been that much later.

Olorin, you are thinking of jousting armour, which was indeed 'too' heavy to use properly, but then again it was supposed to protect it's wearer perfectly.
Battlearmour was much more pleasant to wear, and knights could easily mount their horses unless they were those pen-knights that sat and did nothing. Real knights could jump onto their horses without using stirrups if they felt like bragging a little.

thanks i didnt know that...tho i still have trouble thinking someone could mount a tall horse while in full armor (even if it is more weildy than i think) with such. it would at least take more effort (=time) than it does in game now..

 

[Tarrak]

I have seen people do handstands, cartwheels and flick-flacks with plate armour. Sure that was tiresome for them, but they were not in comparable shape.

A man who was used to the armour could do similar, and leap onto horses. To leap you stand next to the horse, grip the saddle (or neck) and jump hard while swinging the preferred leg over. Much like you do when mounting a bicycle fast (of course that is much harder).
But the point is knights in plate armour were easily capable of mounting horses by themselves. They did have pages help them, but that was just for the sake of ease and comfortability, just like a Formular 1 driver has a load of people to help him get in while he can easily get in by his own right.