MP Stances affecting blocking & attack holding movement

[flavberg]

While stances have been heavily discussed in the beta, with major contributions by people such as @Noudelle and others in regards to their general effect on movement (check out this for more info regarding stances - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/combat-issues-and-inconsistencies-megathread.389699/), this is one of the things that I believe is creating most of the sluggish and inconsistent feeling. Blocking and attacking are the most commonly used mechanics (duh), and as such, the movement required to do these should be extremely fluent.

While this may not be that big of an issue in a simple 1v1 where swinging and blocking with a shield happens very quick for this to be noticeable and take effect, it is an issue in 2v1's, where you are forced to keep a block or hold a swing and change movement rapidly, or long duels without shields, where one must employ footwork and try to defend against multiple feints, which will slow him down and eventually give this feeling of being sluggish.

I don't think held blocks and attacks should be affected by stances. You should be able to go either way without having a speed limit on one of the directions for some arbitrary reason.

 

[Noudelle]

What the ****. How did this go unnoticed for so long.
Thanks for pointing this out. This is really bad.

 

[Count Talbar]

They're bugged as well. If you hold an attack, then move in the opposite direction and feint in the same direction again, the movement speeds get reversed. This video I took is pretty old but it still works today.

 

[Squirrelfart]

Bumping this. More people need to learn about the stance system. It would also probably be nice to keep track of all the variables that stances affects in some sort of megathread, or general criticism about the concept itself.

 

[MKLVN]

Again, I really just don’t understand this critique. One way- you’re basically back pedaling and should move slower. If your body is twisted to the side and you’re moving the opposite way, of course there would be a movement/coordination penalty.

Why is this considered a bug? I’m missing something. Your hips are turned one direction and you’re running the opposite, thus a movement penalty.

 

[Mynes]

Again, I really just don’t understand this critique. One way- you’re basically back pedaling and should move slower. If your body is twisted to the side and you’re moving the opposite way, of course there would be a movement/coordination penalty.

Why is this considered a bug? I’m missing something. Your hips are turned one direction and you’re running the opposite, thus a movement penalty.

Whether it makes sense or not this movement/coordination penalty should never exist. Consider a scenario where you're fighting 1vs2 (already at a disadvantage) and you get penalised due to moving the opposite way of your stance which is completely ridiculous in a groupfight. TaleWorlds is trying to make the game realistic but certain things like this stance mechanic just over complicates things and adds a factor of randomness.

 

[flavberg]

Whether it makes sense or not this movement/coordination penalty should never exist. Consider a scenario where you're fighting 1vs2 (already at a disadvantage) and you get penalised due to moving the opposite way of your stance which is completely ridiculous in a groupfight. TaleWorlds is trying to make the game realistic but certain things like this stance mechanic just over complicates things and adds a factor of randomness.

Great explanation!

Moreover, while blocking, let's say, upwards, the animation actually shows the stance changing (legs move towards that direction) but the speed penalty is still applied.

 

[MKLVN]

Whether it makes sense or not this movement/coordination penalty should never exist. Consider a scenario where you're fighting 1vs2 (already at a disadvantage) and you get penalised due to moving the opposite way of your stance which is completely ridiculous in a groupfight. TaleWorlds is trying to make the game realistic but certain things like this stance mechanic just over complicates things and adds a factor of randomness.

I just don't understand that mindset. How is realism random? Be more mindful and controlled with your attacks.

There should be clear disadvantages to unrealistic movement if you're playing a physics based combat system.

Moreover, while blocking, let's say, upwards, the animation actually shows the stance changing (legs move towards that direction) but the speed penalty is still applied.

If there are bugs where you changed your stance but it still applies a speed penalty then that should be worked out by the devs. But having penalties for unrealistic movements? That just sounds like physics.

 

[Mynes]

I just don't understand that mindset. How is realism random? Be more mindful and controlled with your attacks.

There should be clear disadvantages to unrealistic movement if you're playing a physics based combat system.

The issue is that the speed penalty is not something you can be control of thus i referred to it as a random factor. It's not like expecting to be slowed down because you're climbing a mountain for instance.

 

[MKLVN]

The issue is that the speed penalty is not something you can be aware of thus i referred to it as a random factor. It's not like expecting to be slowed down because you're climbing a mountain for instance.

What do you mean by not expecting to be slowed? If I turn my hips one way and attempt to run the opposite way, I know immediately that I am not going to be as coordinated/mobile as I would be if I was moving the same direction as my hips were turned.

 

[Mynes]

What do you mean by not expecting to be slowed? If I turn my hips one way and attempt to run the opposite way, I know immediately that I am not going to be as coordinated/mobile as I would be if I was moving the same direction as my hips were turned.

You may be able to tell that you're moving opposite your stance and expect to be slowed down in a 1v1 (a tedious process) but its impossible to track your stance in a groupfight. Hence it becomes something out of your control and can be called a random factor affecting the player's combat.

There should be clear disadvantages to unrealistic movement if you're playing a physics based combat system.

In Warband movement speed is constant for the most part. This can be considered unrealistic but the keyword here is that the movement speed is an independent variable with no factors affecting it apart from obvious things like climbing or certain terrain levels. This gives the player more freedom during combat and no 'random' penalisation depending on stance.