Square and circle formations are just stupid! Get rid of it!

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Ahad88

Recruit
Hi,

I have been playing as a captain and it seems the AI has absolutely no understanding of the square and circle formations. In my multiple playthroughs AI seems to choose to hold its line in a circle when it has no reason. I have lost 2 battles because of this since circle just negates our numbers and completely cancels our archers.
In the last battle the Sturgians were outnumbered and we had way more missile troops than them with even higher quality. But the AI simply choose to ruin the battle for us by placing everyone in a circle when there is no need to.

This is constantly happening with different cultures and its the main reason I cannot play captain. It just kills the immersion. Square and circle formation were extremely rare. Please just stick to shield walls and line and spread formations which are less risky. Just get rid of circle specially since it makes no sense. Why would you put 200 archers just inside a circle of infantry so that they all die when you have superiors numbers?
I have taken screen shots but apparently I cannot upload them. If you want I can email them to you. My game version is 1.5.10.

Thank you for the great game.
 
Yeah formations and thier use by AI needs much work. Sometimes I think the circle you described just block most of the archers from firing effectively, but they can still be shot easily.
 
To be honest, I'm not particularly sure how formations are supposed to work in this game. There are a few formations that are obvious. The line formation for mobility, shield wall for defense and good against archers, loose formation for your archers. But the circle formation is supposedly good for horse archers as they like to go around and flank you.

But a lot of the others, I only know what they do in theory. And the truth is, they don't give enough tactical advantage. It would be cool if you could put your calvery in a skein formation, charge them, with support of your infantry, and if you managed to time the attack just right, you can charge with your infantry for an advantage against troops. But the formations don't make that much of a difference.
 

ImperialDane

Regular
Yeah. The AI really doesn't know how to operate the formations and i've consistently seen it throw battles by just forming up a circle and getting murdered. In theory the archers are supposed to shoot out from it.. But they can't. So they just end up doing nothing while the infantry gets murdered.

So i do agree with getting rid of the Formations, at least for the AI because it just ends up never working.
 

BigFat

Regular
Yeah. The AI really doesn't know how to operate the formations and i've consistently seen it throw battles by just forming up a circle and getting murdered. In theory the archers are supposed to shoot out from it.. But they can't. So they just end up doing nothing while the infantry gets murdered.
I think the idea is they're supposed to make a defensive shield ring to soak up enemy arrows and cavalry charges but even in the formation the archers in the middle get hit and die easily and like you said they can't do anything at all. Bonus points if they do this on a lower elevation !
 

ImperialDane

Regular
Problem is it just uses it against any formation with a lot of ranged troops from what i can tell. Hell i've seen it maintain the formation even as it is under intense infantry attack. Witnessing entire armies being ground down into nothing because of this formation.. Suffice to say i generally stay away from AI fights unless i have a significant amount of control over the forces involved.
 

Jaang

Regular
To be honest, I'm not particularly sure how formations are supposed to work in this game. There are a few formations that are obvious. The line formation for mobility, shield wall for defense and good against archers, loose formation for your archers. But the circle formation is supposedly good for horse archers as they like to go around and flank you.

But a lot of the others, I only know what they do in theory. And the truth is, they don't give enough tactical advantage. It would be cool if you could put your calvery in a skein formation, charge them, with support of your infantry, and if you managed to time the attack just right, you can charge with your infantry for an advantage against troops. But the formations don't make that much of a difference.

IF you create a circle of shield-walling infantry, AND then put a smaller circle of archers inside the first circle, you can really mess up horse archers.


I saw the AI do this correctly. Once.


I was commanding the foot archers as thier captain though.
 

Tirdezan

Master Knight
Historically, square formation is used wide spread against cavalry during early-modern period (1650-1815?), ofc there is a lot of examples where armies formed one huge box too, that's how Crassus lost against Parthian horse archers.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant
I wouldn't be getting rid of the formations...

Certainly in single player, I find square formation to be handy in large battles... You can march your infantry well out in advance of your archers... as enemy infantry attack it, they wrap around the flanks, and expose their backs to your archers. It's nasty business from then on.

As per above, I find circle formation really handy facing off against steppe bandits early game. I tend to go for crossbows in the early game - sharpshooters are handy for the brother quest. Put your crossbows in a circle and it turns them into a 360 degree firing squad - they turn marauders and raiders into dust in no time.

The problem is that the AI doesn't utilise them as well as it could. I understand why ai factions circle up... they just don't do it in a way that denies you freedom of movement in the battle space around them. So even solo, you can ride around their circle taking shots into the backs of the soldiers opposite until their circle breaks up - as opposed to when I do it, there is no safe manoeuvre space around my circle.

For this reason, I would never fight or allow my parties to fight under an ai general.
 
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Sebnarr

Recruit
I wouldn't be getting rid of the formations...

Certainly in single player, I find square formation to be handy in large battles... You can march your infantry well out in advance of your archers... as enemy infantry attack it, they wrap around the flanks, and expose their backs to your archers. It's nasty business from then on.

As per above, I find circle formation really handy facing off against steppe bandits early game. I tend to go for crossbows in the early game - sharpshooters are handy for the brother quest. Put your crossbows in a circle and it turns them into a 360 degree firing squad - they turn marauders and raiders into dust in no time.

The problem is that the AI doesn't utilise them as well as it could. I understand why ai factions circle up... they just don't do it in a way that denies you freedom of movement in the battle space around them. So even solo, you can ride around their circle taking shots into the backs of the soldiers opposite until their circle breaks up - as opposed to when I do it, there is no safe manoeuvre space around my circle.

For this reason, I would never fight or allow my parties to fight under an ai general.
Same, those tactics are super useful, use them all the time!
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Certainly in single player, I find square formation to be handy in large battles... You can march your infantry well out in advance of your archers... as enemy infantry attack it, they wrap around the flanks, and expose their backs to your archers. It's nasty business from then on.
So I just had a chance to try this out and it is certainly highly effective, especially when I don't have the infantry numbers to run a full screen. Definitely going to add this to the toolbox.
 
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