Spears should deal more damage

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Kaozak

Recruit
Just to make it clear in before hand, I mostly play single player and this is in regard of the single player mode.

In my opinion, spears currently are far to weak. You can basically only use them, when you're on a horse, or when fighting a horse. When on foot against infantry, it basically deals no damage, while it's difficult to land a hit.

I think it's quite ridiculous, that one handed swords deal a lot more stab damage than two handed spears. Regarding how difficult it is to land a decent hit with a spear, and how effective they should be, I think most spears should deal somewhere around 50 - 80 pierce damage, instead of the 15 - 30 they currently have.

Edit:
I've made a separat thread for the singleplayer discussion in the correct forum:
 
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Gragnok

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Spears are artificially low in damage as they are incredibly powerful if used well. I find getting kills with a spear and shield on siege or TDM extremely easy as people are distracted and i can poke them in the face. Spear damage is fine as it is i think.
 

Kaozak

Recruit
Spears are artificially low in damage as they are incredibly powerful if used well. I find getting kills with a spear and shield on siege or TDM extremely easy as people are distracted and i can poke them in the face. Spear damage is fine as it is i think.
So are all two handed weapons. I can easily achieve a 5:1 KD ratio online by just using classes with on-hit two handed weapons. It's far more difficult to do any significant amount of damage with a spear, as most kills are either one hits or arrows anyways.

But as I said, my concern is mostly for single player. Spears are basically worthless, as they deal little damage and almost always get blocked. You don't even need a spear for cavalry, since two handed weapons are more efficient on horse back and you don't need the range advantage in SP.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Balancing this game around TDM or Siege would be the biggest mistake TW ever made.
Skirmish is your competitive mode, that's what you balance around. Adjustments to price and things like that can then be made for individual gamemodes if need be.

As for spears: They STILL deal instant damage when you stab someone (meaning you can be practically hugging them and still instant hit for full damage) - this needs to be fixed. Spears also just got a buff in the beta branch as their damage to the head multiplier is increased from 1.7 to 2.0. They don't need a damage increase.

Also if this is a suggestion for Singleplayer, post it in the Singleplayer board, not the Multiplayer one...
 

Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
If you think cav is op now, imagine what happens when we get a spear damage buff. With the headshot buffs that is already on the way we're just gonna insta-kill everyone with simple stabs, couch lance will be a thing of the past. Lances will become obsolete since spears will be superior in every way. Btw that was the case once in Beta already.
 

Kaozak

Recruit
Balancing this game around TDM or Siege would be the biggest mistake TW ever made.
Skirmish is your competitive mode, that's what you balance around. Adjustments to price and things like that can then be made for individual gamemodes if need be.
Ok, didn't know that. Haven't tried that mode yet, as everyone told me it's boring. :razz:

As for spears: They STILL deal instant damage when you stab someone (meaning you can be practically hugging them and still instant hit for full damage) - this needs to be fixed. Spears also just got a buff in the beta branch as their damage to the head multiplier is increased from 1.7 to 2.0. They don't need a damage increase.
How do you do that? Everytime I use the spear, I deal 0 - 2 damage up close, as I'm too close for a hit. And when the enemy turn my way, I'm just dead, as I'm much slower and easy too block. In siege and TDM everyone switches from spear to some other melee weapon when I aproach, so apperantly not a lot of people know how to use a spear in melee at all.

Also if this is a suggestion for Singleplayer, post it in the Singleplayer board, not the Multiplayer one...
My bad, didn't know the board were split. On my earlier posts I could use a tag, for SP or MP, didn't really figure out why it was gone. :razz:
 

Kaozak

Recruit
If you think cav is op now, imagine what happens when we get a spear damage buff. With the headshot buffs that is already on the way we're just gonna insta-kill everyone with simple stabs, couch lance will be a thing of the past. Lances will become obsolete since spears will be superior in every way. Btw that was the case once in Beta already.
Wasn't that a thing before? I don't use the couch mode, as I'm bad with it. :razz: But at higher speeds the cav deals enough damage anyways, so I never bothered to learn the couch mode. I have much more trouble defeating cav, while using spears on foot, as I stop them, and then they ride off, before I can kill them. And in my expierience not a lot of people online know how to deal with cav.

The only thing dangerous to cav at the moment are ranged weapons, in my opinion. Spears are more to discourage cav from engaging, than to fight cav.

But I guess you could just buff the spears you can't use on horseback?
 

Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
Wasn't that a thing before? I don't use the couch mode, as I'm bad with it. :razz: But at higher speeds the cav deals enough damage anyways, so I never bothered to learn the couch mode. I have much more trouble defeating cav, while using spears on foot, as I stop them, and then they ride off, before I can kill them. And in my expierience not a lot of people online know how to deal with cav.

The only thing dangerous to cav at the moment are ranged weapons, in my opinion. Spears are more to discourage cav from engaging, than to fight cav.

But I guess you could just buff the spears you can't use on horseback?
What do you propose? That a single mistake by cav is going to lead to it's death? I mean it's still the case if you get stopped near a team, it shouldn't be a death sentence if you get stopped by a single dude. The main if not only advantage of cav is it's ability to engage on it's terms, having just one shot at it will make it near useless.
 
Increase spear damage, reduce speed bonus maximum. (Humans cannot withstand that much more with our arms even though the horse gives us speed, hence the couch lance)

If someone comes and says that spear is OP then that is great. Spears are the best weapon and should be. If you hold it with 2 hands it should win over someone with a 2 handed sword most of the time. Just look at all the loading screens for bannerlord. What are they holding? Exactly! Spears!

Also they should bring back the quarter staff weapon and that should be op as well
 

Kaozak

Recruit
What do you propose? That a single mistake by cav is going to lead to it's death? I mean it's still the case if you get stopped near a team, it shouldn't be a death sentence if you get stopped by a single dude. The main if not only advantage of cav is it's ability to engage on it's terms, having just one shot at it will make it near useless.
If cav can oneshot me, and I pick a spear to counter cav, then yes, I should be able to oneshot a horse that charges full speed into a spear.
 

Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
If cav can oneshot me, and I pick a spear to counter cav, then yes, I should be able to oneshot a horse that charges full speed into a spear.
Why should you? Cav has literally no option to fight you but to charge full speed at your back hoping you won't turn around in time. All you have to do is turn around and stab a huge target that is the horse. Cav is already weak 1v1 against you in an open fight, debilitating it's ability to prey on unaware players by punishing it this hard for a single mistake will make the class unplayable.
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Just to make it clear in before hand, I mostly play single player and this is in regard of the single player mode.

This thread needed only two posts to derail into a multiplayer discussion. Does nobody ever read the OP?
I wouldn't mind if spears were better in singleplayer. I don't think it would really bother anyone.

But don't buff them in multiplayer.
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I dunno I mostly play cav and if I got dismounted in SP every time I rode into a spearman I'd break my keyboard real fast.
I dunno I I mostly play cav and I wouldn't get dismounted in SP every time I rode into a spearman I'd fall asleep real fast.

The game is already very easy when you are mounted. If the game is too hard you can always reduce the damage you take. On the other hand, there is no setting to improve the damage of spears.
I'd love to roleplay a spearman in Bannerlord but that is hardly possible right now.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This thread needed only two posts to derail into a multiplayer discussion. Does nobody ever read the OP?
I wouldn't mind if spears were better in singleplayer. I don't think it would really bother anyone.

But don't buff them in multiplayer.
That's because this is the Multiplayer board. Of course discussion will go there, even if the thread wasn't meant for it. I don't care about spears in Singleplayer, but for Multiplayer they are too strong against infantry and too weak against cavalry.

That is, once again, talking about spears that can be used with shields, not menavlions or the like.
 

Kaozak

Recruit
That's because this is the Multiplayer board. Of course discussion will go there, even if the thread wasn't meant for it. I don't care about spears in Singleplayer, but for Multiplayer they are too strong against infantry and too weak against cavalry.

That is, once again, talking about spears that can be used with shields, not menavlions or the like.
Not sure if we are talking about the same game, or if only some spears have that bug you're talking about, but I'm not able to reproduce that. I'm currently playing on the beta branch.

Made a new SP character and tested a bit on the training grounds. With both one and two handed swords I was able to completely stun lock the trainer by chaining attacks, with the spear I could get at most 2 hits in, before the trainer broke my chain by hitting me faster with the two handed sword, than I could. Also didn't have anywhere instant damage on the hits. In the spear I got in the arena I coudn't even deal any damage when directly in front of the enemy. And with good hits from a distance I still dealt significantly less damage than with a sword.

From my experience so far, the spear is slower, deals less damage, is easier to block and harder to hit, when compared with most two handed weapons. So I don't really get how the 20-30 dmg hit from a spear is OP compared to 100+ damage from two handed swing weapons with almost any hits.

Edit:
And just to make a point, setting 100 spearmen vs 100 cav in a custom battle just resulted in 3 dead cav and 100 dead spearmen. :razz:
 
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Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
That's because this is the Multiplayer board. Of course discussion will go there, even if the thread wasn't meant for it. I don't care about spears in Singleplayer, but for Multiplayer they are too strong against infantry and too weak against cavalry.

That is, once again, talking about spears that can be used with shields, not menavlions or the like.
Well I guess I have embarrassed myself here.
It wasn't clear to see that it's on the multiplayer board. Well done myself.
Concerning the topic of spears I don't have anything new to add different to all everything that has already been said since the beta.
I guess I have to agree with Tork that we need to get some duell or dedicated clan-war servers to see where spears stand in the meta.
 
Or how about let the spears has a collision thing? Y'know, so when pointing spear to the opponent, then the opponent could not just pass through.
 
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