You might not be new to the series but you clearly don't have much experience in Bannerlord. Nothing rude, or personal about it, it's just what transpires from the false statements that you have written yourself. In that case though I don't see why continuing to argue about something you know very little of.
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Spears are too overpowered
- Thread starter Morow
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You might not be new to the series but you clearly don't have much experience in Bannerlord. Nothing rude, or personal about it, it's just what transpires from the false statements that you have written yourself. In that case though I don't see why continuing to argue about something you know very little of.
Well, that's kind of what I said. I was referring to the situation we had a few patches back where everyone was running around with a spear and a shield and would just bash and stab you to death. Or even worse, the melee javelin problem. It's definitely gotten better.
Just because someone doesnt agree with you or understand doesn't mean they are purposefully choosing to not understand, you're not on any grounds to make that claim. Im not saying to be nice, but being an ass might be counterproductive to your goals.
Um actually, there are some people in this thread that will destroy you in 1v1 if they use a spear.
Having arguments presented to you and reacting with "your reponse is literally X" or "sPeArs aRe oP" shows that you're not even making an effort to try to understand.
I'm trying to have a conversation / argument because this is a forum. I do not go to forums for the purpose of instantly trusting random people's opinions, especially when 1 they are exceedingly hostile, and 2, because the purpose of a forum is to have a discussion before changing one's mind, not the other way around. I'm not sure what you consider "much experience" as, but it's true that I got my invite recently, no more than two weeks ago I'd say.
As for why I argue about things I'm not experienced in, well, that's because I don't think we're really talking about the same issue. When I say spears, I literally mean the spear class of weapon. What many people here seem to mean, including you, is the combination of a spear and a shield. And that is why I don't agree with you. Using only a spear is not the issue you seem to be having with the game, but rather the combination of the spear and shield.
Another point-- some people seem to be classifying javelins and throwing weapons as "spears" since they can be used in melee. The Korean fellow (sorry don't know how else to call you) and John being 2 of them.
Why? Why are we calling these throwing weapons spears when (unless we are actually talking about throwing spears) they're not spears?
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What you were doing has nothing to do with discussions. Not trusting a random guy is one thing, ignoring all the post is another. Also noone said you're new to the series, I was talking about bannerlord. It's obviously quite different to warband. Do you mind telling is how nany hours you've played the beta for?
I'm objectively not ignoring anyone. I've replied to almost every post, sent a friend request to the guy offering to 1v1 people with spear and shield to prove a point, etc etc. You're wrong, end of discussion. I'm done with this thread until I can get a hold of the previously mentioned guy and see what the fuss is all about. Also, 80 hours.
I've actually half a mind to report some of you for being so overtly intolerant to other people's viewpoints on a forum of all places. And that's putting your behaviors lightly.
Spears shouldn't be that strong against cavalry, as frankly if the devs are shooting for a shred of realism, pre-high medieval cavalry is essentially the preeminent force on the field and able to smash clean through phalanx formations in the case of heavy cav. Cavalry was a joke in Warband as a single spear thrust could arrest a horse, when in reality even if you kill a horse you've got a 600-1000 pound object flying into your face as a horse doesn't suddenly arrest its momentum because it got poked by a pointy stick. They're still the best weapons for taking down cavalry, but the point being is that cavalry shouldn't be easy to take down if the horse has any form of barding (and even then, non-barded cavalry could often just smash clean through infantry so long as the charge wasn't disrupted by terrain).
Silen(Gab on here) has near 900 hours in the beta already. Don't you think you should respect that he's gonna have far more knowledge and experience about the game, and therefore when he says that spears are too powerful, that he is probably right. I have 350 hours, not as much, but I can safely say I agree with Silen. Spears are more or less alright in 1v1, I tend to just facehug any spear user by habit, and it works out for me. In a groupfight they just get too many advantages without any disadvantage. In Warband if you stabbed and hit someones shield you would be stunned for a small time (no blocking) but in Bannerlord this stun doesn't exist, so even if I successfully block, they just have to press LMB again and they will hit before I've even drawn my swing back.
I'm sick and tired of people using some sort of realism arguement. It just doesn't fly in multiplayer. We want a balanced experience, if you went by realism then you'd have to make cavalry a lot more awkward to use as well, your horse would not longer be able to run into a wall by accident and live, you would lose your lance on the first impact, as soon as you came flying from your horse you would be stunned on the ground for a good couple of minutes etc. none of these are fun, and neither is having one class just outright better than the rest.
Please stop using realism as an arguement.
I'm having flashbacks.. We literally passed through same arguments during those days where Cav was insanely op. Videos have rejected with same words, pages and pages of wikipedia articles have been posted, just to prove that cav wasn't overpowered..
And when It's proven that they were OP, deniers changed their altitude over "They should be OP anyway, just like in real life! Realism!". We are seeing same "muh realism" arguments for spears as well, like, as if they supposed to be like this in the game anyway.
No offense draco, but spear animation is broken & it's timing needs some serious adjustments.
Well none of this actually makes any sense for one that, a horse isn't going to run into a wall unless it has a stroke or is blinded, lances don't actually break commonly on impact unless they get stuck in armor and can be drawn out of flesh, and you wouldn't be stunned for "minutes" by falling off a horse unless you are critically injured, in which case you are now a casualty anyway and no longer fighting. Furthermore, some classes should absolutely be hands down superior to others. That's war. They should also be limited because of their elite nature, but I see no reason how this is neither "not fun" or "bad for balance" when it is literally the definition of balance and plenty of successful and quite fun games have completely unequal classes balanced by exclusivity.
So no I'm not going to cease using realism as an argument because you are incapable of forming a coherent counter argument.
Sigh... I'm gonna take this to personal messages so we don't clog this thread up.
Prove nothing related to actual historical warfare and certainly aren't scientific. These people aren't trying to kill each other, they aren't even using real weapons.
Really depends a lot on how you're going to compose yourself.
Yeah, I was thinking more the speed that people come flying off their horse in Bannerlord. I'm not advocating for such a stun to be in the game but if we're going to use "realism" on one side then both sides need it.
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It would be interesting to see those realism mechanics added into the game. Horses taking more damage from falls or charging into walls, and even taking some damage running over units. A 25% chance of losing your lance on horseback after a successful hit, or make lances similar to shields when on horseback and break/lost after dealing say 300 damage done so Cav would either have to resort to a secondary weapon sword/lance or pick up another weapon. Horse blunt charge damage increased substantially, and the rider taking a lot more damage with a longer stun when falling from a horse. If a falling/dead horse crashes into an infantry(s) should hit hard like a mini bomb in a small radius.
Not saying adding these things would make the game more fun, but would certainly be interesting to see in action and tinker with.
I think what the devs can get out of this thread is:
- that a lot of the players that played for the Beta for a longer time think Spears are (still) overall op.
-that a lot of newer players disagree.
But I have not seen anybody that says Spears aren't op in groupfights. So that is an issue that has to be looked at.
A lot of us have an opinion on whether or not spears are op in 1 vs 1 aswell. But I think we won't be able to prove one thing or the other until we get duel servers.
If a spear & shield meta develops in those dedicated Servers we have our answer.
Until then, I don't think that it makes sense to let krex fight new players.
Even I can "destroy" a lot of new players with a sickle only and I am far from a top player. It gets interesting, when the players are of equal skill.
- that a lot of the players that played for the Beta for a longer time think Spears are (still) overall op.
-that a lot of newer players disagree.
But I have not seen anybody that says Spears aren't op in groupfights. So that is an issue that has to be looked at.
A lot of us have an opinion on whether or not spears are op in 1 vs 1 aswell. But I think we won't be able to prove one thing or the other until we get duel servers.
If a spear & shield meta develops in those dedicated Servers we have our answer.
Until then, I don't think that it makes sense to let krex fight new players.
Even I can "destroy" a lot of new players with a sickle only and I am far from a top player. It gets interesting, when the players are of equal skill.
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All it needs is the self stun mechanic from warband so a spearguy can actually be punished if he doesn't get protected by his teammates. It's a support weapon after all.
It's a harsh way to prove a point that these players haven't yet fully grasped all the mechanics of the game, but they still try to impact balance discussions. It baffles me how someone with barely 10% or less of Silen's(Gab) playtime could think he is on the same grounds as him to argue about certain things. Know your place in a discussion, people. I didn't even start posting on anything gameplay related until I hit 100 hours and even now I tend to stay out of most balance discussions because there are people who understand the game much better than I.
