Spear Static Damage WIP

[barthez4]

A looter wearing rags running stomach first onto a sharp spearpoint isn't going to require the spear holder to have a lot of stability... the simple physics of it will mean a spearheard in the gut.

For sure. My post was talking about taking a charge from a horse - in and out of armor - not an unarmored peasant/looter. I said that an unstable one would still do damage to an unarmored horse so it follows that an unarmored peasant would also get hurt by it.

 

[Benisfug]

Static, passive, dynamic, phalanx, spear bracing, spear mod, etc. Call it anything you want it to be. Still WIP.
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This is the best spear mod I've ever seen even since Warband days. Please continue.

 

[King Yngvar]

Spears used against cavalry where always braced with one side on ground. If You just hold a spear braced in your hand and heavily armoured horse with heavily armored riders charges at You, You will **** yourself but won't scratch the rider.
It's not about just bracing it. The weapon must be steadily grounded otherwise a human have not enough mass and power to stop rider or to kill the horse without thrusting the weapon. He will be pushed back along with the spear and probably killed by horse.

At the same time, you won't get a horse to just charge into a wall of spears and shields no matter how they are held.

 

[Tork789]

At the same time, you won't get a horse to just charge into a wall of spears and shields no matter how they are held.

隐藏: History tells otherwise

 

[darksoulshin]

Static, passive, dynamic, phalanx, spear bracing, spear mod, etc. Call it anything you want it to be. Still WIP.
If You like what I do, please consider subscribing. Thank You

I would like to give you some advice, since I consider your mod very important.
Once the spear hitbox hits an enemy or a horse, the soldier holding the spear should suffer a knockback blow that should push him backwards by deactivating the mode that allows him to aim the spear (so as not to inflict continuous shots in case of further collisions between hitboxes with other horses or with the same one).

characteristics that the kickback should have:
1) The kickback must take place a few hundredths of a second after the impact (or in a much smaller time the greater the momentum exchanged..quotes partly simulates the impact).
2) the kickback must "push" the soldier backwards with a magnitude that should depend on the momentum exchanged.
Since there are not many thrust-related animations in the game, I would tell you to set a momentum that exceeds this threshold, the soldier instead of being pushed backwards, is thrown away (even if he hits the horse that probably makes a bad end).
3) the kickback disables the "aim the spear" mod for the duration of the animation.
If the animation is that of falling to the ground, obviously the time to get back into the pose will be greater.
4) the soldiers, if possible, should keep the spears parallel to the direction of the formation front.


I hope I have been helpful.

 

[chiconspiracy]

I would like to give you some advice, since I consider your mod very important.
Once the spear hitbox hits an enemy or a horse, the soldier holding the spear should suffer a knockback blow that should push him backwards by deactivating the mode that allows him to aim the spear (so as not to inflict continuous shots in case of further collisions between hitboxes with other horses or with the same one).

characteristics that the kickback should have:
1) The kickback must take place a few hundredths of a second after the impact (or in a much smaller time the greater the momentum exchanged..quotes partly simulates the impact).
2) the kickback must "push" the soldier backwards with a magnitude that should depend on the momentum exchanged.
Since there are not many thrust-related animations in the game, I would tell you to set a momentum that exceeds this threshold, the soldier instead of being pushed backwards, is thrown away (even if he hits the horse that probably makes a bad end).
3) the kickback disables the "aim the spear" mod for the duration of the animation.
If the animation is that of falling to the ground, obviously the time to get back into the pose will be greater.
4) the soldiers, if possible, should keep the spears parallel to the direction of the formation front.


I hope I have been helpful.

This should honestly apply to a horse striking the spear only, not the rider or infantry on foot.

 

[Dearmad]

Spears used against cavalry where always braced with one side on ground. If You just hold a spear braced in your hand and heavily armoured horse with heavily armored riders charges at You, You will **** yourself but won't scratch the rider.
It's not about just bracing it. The weapon must be steadily grounded otherwise a human have not enough mass and power to stop rider or to kill the horse without thrusting the weapon. He will be pushed back along with the spear and probably killed by horse.

this is total bull****. the pointy end impales the horse like heated blade into butter armored or not. the point of bracing is so that you preserve the line. if you are not braced you will kill the horse or rider without required thrust- just slidee the point into the target- it's butter smooth. but likely the mass will still slam into you as it carries on down the shaft and knock you down/back. or twist out of your hands. you should let go of a braced one anyway too and grab the spare as the weight of the dead isn't easy to use.

 

[Icaurs]

is nobody going to mention how those spears were being held slap bang in the middle? resulting in half the length of the weapon being behind them? infact most long thrusting weapons in this game seem to be held like this which is completely absurd and its something that annoys me in game whenever i notice it. the main advantage of a spear is its reach. holding it in the middle and giving yourself a wieldy counterweight behind you makes no sense.

seeing as you are modding spears i would suggest addressing this issue while you are at it

 

[darksoulshin]

This should honestly apply to a horse striking the spear only, not the rider or infantry on foot.

the horse dies badly if it sticks, isn't that enough?
The point is that the soldier must not be able to hit someone during the impact and in order for it not to look like a destructive wall, it must be able to suffer some consequences deriving from the impact.

If we really wanted to go on realism, horses would never charge a wall of spears.
But since we are in a game and we like to charge, we would like to have the choice to crash into a beautiful wall of spears.

On the other hand, it would bother us if 10 spearmen managed to kill 20-30 knights in 1 charge only because after having skewered the first horse, the aiming mode of the spear remains active and therefore the spear hitbox is able to touch the second horse and kill it. .. and maybe even a third horse.

Do you now understand the reason for my suggestions?
They are to balance a mechanic that at the moment is likely to be too unbalanced.

 

[h1zchan]

Awesome mod! Finally we're seeing pikes being done right! Now is it possible to make shield collision persistent too, so that shields provide a certain level of protection even when not blocking? That way spear phalanx can finally make sense

 

[luisedgm]

Yes finally, make spears useful, release when?

 

[h1zchan]

is nobody going to mention how those spears were being held slap bang in the middle? resulting in half the length of the weapon being behind them? infact most long thrusting weapons in this game seem to be held like this which is completely absurd and its something that annoys me in game whenever i notice it. the main advantage of a spear is its reach. holding it in the middle and giving yourself a wieldy counterweight behind you makes no sense.

I agree spears shouldn't be held like this when fighting. However when braced this is indeed how you would hold a pike.

this grip is also useful in armored fighting where the back end of the spear can be used to parry, strike and hook the opponents arms much like like halfswording with the longsword. Check out Dierk Hagedorn's youtube channel to get a glimpse of stuff written in Danzig Ringeck and the wallerstein manuscripts. Fiore manuscripts even specifically depicted spear being held in this grip. But i guess we're getting way ahead of ourselves as far as 11th century armor was considered.

but is important to note the visual length of the spear doesn't necessarily lineup with the collision mesh. Even though the spear looks like it's heldin a way thats not utilizing the full lengthof the shaft therange of attack depends on the length stats and the animation of the attack move not the visual appearance of the weapon itself. I do wish the two handed spear thrust animation could be tweaked to correctly represent the sliding motion drven by the back hand a la pool table cue but I suspect the game engine might have glued the weapon collision model to the characters right hand

 

[chiconspiracy]

I agree spears shouldn't be held like this when fighting. However when braced this is indeed how you would hold a pike.

this grip is also useful in armored fighting where the back end of the spear can be used to parry, strike and hook the opponents arms much like like halfswording with the longsword. Check out Dierk Hagedorn's youtube channel to get a glimpse of stuff written in Danzig Ringeck and the wallerstein manuscripts. Fiore manuscripts even specifically depicted spear being held in this grip. But i guess we're getting way ahead of ourselves as far as 11th century armor was considered.

but is important to note the visual length of the spear doesn't necessarily lineup with the collision mesh. Even though the spear looks like it's heldin a way thats not utilizing the full lengthof the shaft therange of attack depends on the length stats and the animation of the attack move not the visual appearance of the weapon itself. I do wish the two handed spear thrust animation could be tweaked to correctly represent the sliding motion drven by the back hand a la pool table cue but I suspect the game engine might have glued the weapon collision model to the characters right hand

Thankfully the hand position is easy enough to change in crafting_pieces by playing with "move_diff=" and lowering the value. I've lowered it enough on some weapons where the guy is actually gripping the pommel of a polearm.

 

[johncage213]

good mod, but goddamn are the animations ugly, the guy's got his back bend backward holding the spear, how is he supposed to brace? i'm livid about the dev's lack of work on the animations, they basically ported the crappy warband animations from 10 years ago. smdh

 

[h1zchan]

Thankfully the hand position is easy enough to change in crafting_pieces by playing with "move_diff=" and lowering the value. I've lowered it enough on some weapons where the guy is actually gripping the pommel of a polearm.

Lol thats cool can you explain in further detail like which file and what range of values to put in there?

 

[chiconspiracy]

Lol thats cool can you explain in further detail like which file and what range of values to put in there?

Your exact values will vary based on the length of the handle, but increasing move_diff will lower your hand placement. Something like the vlandian pike has a lot of spare handle behind it, so you could try doubling it on that, but on other polearms that might move your grip right off the weapon, so you'll just have to try it out.

 

[chiconspiracy]

the horse dies badly if it sticks, isn't that enough?
The point is that the soldier must not be able to hit someone during the impact and in order for it not to look like a destructive wall, it must be able to suffer some consequences deriving from the impact.

If we really wanted to go on realism, horses would never charge a wall of spears.
But since we are in a game and we like to charge, we would like to have the choice to crash into a beautiful wall of spears.

On the other hand, it would bother us if 10 spearmen managed to kill 20-30 knights in 1 charge only because after having skewered the first horse, the aiming mode of the spear remains active and therefore the spear hitbox is able to touch the second horse and kill it. .. and maybe even a third horse.

Do you now understand the reason for my suggestions?
They are to balance a mechanic that at the moment is likely to be too unbalanced.

I'm saying if the horse hits a braced spear, that spearmen should be knocked on his ass the same way infantry taking a horse collision does (ideally with a broken spear and dead horse + thrown rider), but if he has the timing and skill to aim at the guy ON the horse, that guy should get knocked off the horse (and likely killed), and the collision should be a lot less for the spearmen. For facing infantry, the guy with the spear should NOT be knocked over, but instead deal a speed based percentage of damage to the guys dumb enough to run face first into the spearpoint.

 

[h1zchan]

Your exact values will vary based on the length of the handle, but increasing move_diff will lower your hand placement. Something like the vlandian pike has a lot of spare handle behind it, so you could try doubling it on that, but on other polearms that might move your grip right off the weapon, so you'll just have to try it out.

Which file is this move_diff parameter found in?

 

[chiconspiracy]

Which file is this move_diff parameter found in?

Modules\Native\ModuleData\crafting_pieces.xml

 

[h1zchan]

T

Modules\Native\ModuleData\crafting_pieces.xml

thank you