Spear Bracing

[Mooncabbage]

How do you turn spear bracing off? I can't find it in the mod options, but I hate it. It's terribly annoying and unrealistic.

 

[Adorno]

I have a question too: Does the spear bracing have an animation?
I simply can't tell when the enemy is bracing his spear until I'm thrown off my horse, and there's a message saying my horse was killed by it.

 

[Froggystyle]

It does have an animation, but it's triggered before the animation plays.

none-animated examples:
1. I threw a javelin and killed a horsemans horse, switched to my sword, and rode
towards him, and he had his spear braced while he was getting up from the ground.
The most expensive horse I've ever bought died.

2. Also happens sometimes when I flank spear units that they spear brace backwards, just
to kill my horse.

3. And also when they spear brace while running.

However, if they stand on one spot, and you run towards them from in front or if they miss,
they play the animation.

If it's possible to script it, so that it would only trigger while they are standing still in a formation,
I think it would be an improvement.
Isn't the idea of spear bracing to hold the spear steady and let the horses own speed and weight
impale itself on the spear, to avoid it from breaking the formation anyways? 

 

[Mooncabbage]

If it's possible to script it, so that it would only trigger while they are standing still in a formation,
I think it would be an improvement.
Isn't the idea of spear bracing to hold the spear steady and let the horses own speed and weight
impale itself on the spear, to avoid it from breaking the formation anyways? 

Agree 100%. As spear bracing is, it's terrible, but I don't disagree with the idea in general. The other problem is that AI cavalry suck. Because they don't understand how spear bracing or even infantry in general function, they tend to charge straight in and die. About the only thing they're good for is speeding up your army and mopping up a rout.

 

[Adorno]

2. Also happens sometimes when I flank spear units that they spear brace backwards, just to kill my horse.

I've seen that too. Very confusing.

If it's possible to script it, so that it would only trigger while they are standing still in a formation,
I think it would be an improvement.

That's how it should be. Right now it seems like an illegal ninja move from the government 

 

[Mooncabbage]

I'm also confused as to what can be braced. Can I brace? Can I order my men to, or does it happen automatically? With the general lack of cavalry in the game it seems almost pointless to do so, but it's good to know.

It's weird, I've been riding around picking off the weak peasants who charge ahead of frankish raiders, only to suddenly lose my horse, and be totally mobbed before I've even gotten up!

Can your horse actually die? I've never noticed this, nor have my horses turned lame, but I remember it happening in native at some point in the distant past.

 

[Froggystyle]

I'm also confused as to what can be braced. Can I brace? Can I order my men to, or does it happen automatically? With the general lack of cavalry in the game it seems almost pointless to do so, but it's good to know.

It's weird, I've been riding around picking off the weak peasants who charge ahead of frankish raiders, only to suddenly lose my horse, and be totally mobbed before I've even gotten up!

Can your horse actually die? I've never noticed this, nor have my horses turned lame, but I remember it happening in native at some point in the distant past.

Yep, it's bound to the "G"-key you might have to change the drop weapon binding.
Well there is lack of cavarly in the early game when not fighting armies of 300-500 men.
Once you get there, there are pretty much cavalry actually, but still majority on men. 
And most of the cavalry use skirmish tactics.

And yes, the horse can turn Lame and Die. I don't know how it works, could possibly be
a small chance for it to happen, or if it counts how many times the horse have died on the battlefield.

Edit: oh, and your men do it automatically while standing in your shieldwall. They are not always
successful though, but you might see a couple of horsemen flying into the middle of the shieldwall,
getting butchered.

That's how it should be. Right now it seems like an illegal ninja move from the government 

Hm, perfect explanation. 

 

[imgran]

Yeah please get rid of the insane instant auto ninja horse death for no reason. 

I mean FFS, you don't even have to be hit with anything that might be considered a spear.  Yoiu might as well call it the Body Odor Stinky Horse Doom attack, since the only trigger is proximity. 

Besides, it's an awful fit for the era.  The whole concept is a fairly lame kludge to make up for couched lancing, which is not in this game as there are no lances.

I don't find in my game that shielded spearmen suffer against cavalry with or without bracing anyway.  They're a lot better than most mods' spearman relative to what they're facing.  They don't need that much help from a damage kludge..

Let us turn it off.  PLEASE.

 

[Mooncabbage]

To be honest, tightly grouped infantry are more than a match for cavalry, who in most cases are quickly mobbed and killed, as in reality. Spear bracing is at best unnecessary and at worst unbalancing. A lone spearman should be vulnerable to cavalry attack, not deadly.

 

[imgran]

A lone spearman should be vulnerable to cavalry attack, not deadly.

This.

This is the point.

 

[Rigor]

Once you brace a spear, it's basicly like a "trap" on the ground. I once rode at 2 men fighting each other with swords/axes, and my horse fell under me from a braced spear. There were no one else around, just the two men with swords/axes and a lot of stuff on the ground. I guess that spear was among the stuff on the ground.

 

[Hypno Toad]

Having just recently started palying this game (and playing factionless, I invested in cavalry preomdinatly to mop up bandit/pirate gangs with minimal casualties)

But yeah, you're riding along, about to make your sword meet somebody face, and your horse evedinelty experiences sudden cardiac arrest at the sight of a spearman waddling around with his spear that is clearly uncounched.

I hate having to get rid of my "lame" horses because I brushed up against an idling spearmen, at which point he uses the force to make my horse explode.

 

[killer110]

If your lame horse gets pwned in combat there's a good chance it will die. To cure a lame horse of its lameness just keep it in your inventory for a few days and it'll be good as new (unless it had a buff like Heavy in which case it will be gone and just be a regular horse). This doesn't worked with swaybacked horses because you can't heal age (although my orphan slaves are producing tears at an extraordinary rate lately and this could help with my research).

 

[Vympel]

Yes there's an option to turn it off , at list there was in 1.37 .

 

[marscamulus]

If it's possible to script it, so that it would only trigger while they are standing still in a formation,
I think it would be an improvement.
Isn't the idea of spear bracing to hold the spear steady and let the horses own speed and weight
impale itself on the spear, to avoid it from breaking the formation anyways? 

Agree. Spear bracing is when a soldier stands still, holding a spear in frotn of him, with the rear end firmly pointed on the ground, and maybe placing a foot over the spear shaft, to add weight and prevent overturning on impact.
The damage caused to a full-speed charging horse should have been tremendous, but the soldier needed to STAND STILL, and the spear needed to be LONG enough, to prevent the horse falling OVER the warrior. And, of course, such a soldier could not hit a horse charging from the flank or the rear. In fact, to avoid been flanked, troopers could form a square or circular formation (later in history it was named circular schiltron), so they had no flank or rear, as spears were pointing out in every direction. But it was basically a static formation, a defensive technique against cavalry charges.
In the game, spear bracing is overpowered and downright unrealistic. Soldiers bracing a spear are not only able to walk or even charge, but can kill horses charging from every direction! They act just as a single-man circular schiltron! And can kill even the most slowly walking horse - while, just as Froggystyle wrote, it was the speed of the horse that made the trick (the spear was simply pointed on the ground)- .
So, my final thoughts are:
-spear bracing is a good addition to the game, but it needs a better implementation;
-when activating the bracing, troopers should get stuck where they are; by pressing again the hotkey, the spear should be released, thus ending the bracing action and making the trooper free to move (OR: moving should cause the bracing to end);
-the braced spear should only hit the horses it is pointing to (and not those on the rear or the flank);
-the damage delivered should be proportional to the horse's speed, so that a slowly walking horse should suffer only a very slight damage;
-only longer spears should be suitable for bracing (say from 180 on).

 

[marscamulus]

I'm also confused as to what can be braced. Can I brace?

All spears can be braced, in 1.38 you have to hit the "J" button (while you are on foot).

 

[Celtichugs]

Breaking spears, like in Vikingr, would be awsome! Not sure if that is already ingame, I havn't play enough!

 

[imgran]

THat would be interesting.

Calculate spear toughness against horse armor, if the horse armor holds up, the spear shatters.  That would make a nice clear differentiation between heavy and light cavalry.

 

[imgran]

Yes there's an option to turn it off , at list there was in 1.37 .

I didn't see it when I looked.

I'm not the most observant of souls though, so that might not mean anything.

 

[killer110]

THat would be interesting.

Calculate spear toughness against horse armor, if the horse armor holds up, the spear shatters.  That would make a nice clear differentiation between heavy and light cavalry.

Well considering it's a spear it would still have pretty good pentration to mail and flesh and simply the weight and momentum of a charging heavy horse is enough to kill it even though the spear hasn't passed through the flesh.