Space Marines v. Space Marines

[Archonsod]

Yes, they carry plenty of bombardment tubes and ordnance, including cyclonic torpedoes. What they lack is good space to space weaponry. Most of the hull is given over to support landing operations; primarily via drop pod or Thunderhawk transports; rather than space conflict. In theory they carry enough firepower to deal with even a capital ship, in practice most of that firepower is in torpedoes which depend upon penetrating the shield and point defences of the target to do damage. Against a battle cruiser it has no real answer to the forward lance batteries; against other races it can be even worse (Imperial torpedoes have a hell of a time with Eldar holo-fields, although on the other hand Tyrannids have problems defending against torpedoes).
While it's well protected, particularly against ground to orbit weapons, it would lose a battle decided on firepower alone against anything larger than an escort. Of course, the main threat is the marines it carries; the usual means of attack for a battle barge on a warship is to use ordnance to distract the enemy point defence while the assault pods and Thunderhawks deliver boarding parties to the enemy vessel. There's not many races which can compete with the marines in a boarding action.

 

[Bergioyn]

- - What they lack is good space to space weaponry - - Against a battle cruiser it has no real answer to the forward lance batteries; against other races it can be even worse While it's well protected  - -it would lose a battle decided on firepower alone against anything larger than an escort

I beg to differ, Battlebarges certainly can beat ships larger than escort, Also, while I know Lexicanum has it's flaws, here is Lexicanum page on Battlebarges: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Battle_barge

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Later Terran battle cruisers had shields installed too, although I don't know how well they can stop torpedoes.

 

[Do not look here]

Aren't we comparing technologies divided by X thousand years of development?

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Development is not an apt term, the Imperiums' technology can be said to have done back flips.

Edit:
"Forget the power of technology and science, for so much
has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the
promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim
dark future there is only war."

 

[Bergioyn]

Aren't we comparing technologies divided by X thousand years of development?

Technology doesn't matter. All you need is Dakka! Moar Dakka! And Imperium has plenty of that. 

 

[AWdeV]

And Orks have even more.

Not in any way better Dakka, just more.

 

[Pixel]

Honestly, I've never played StarCraft, but I've read about it and have a good knowledge of who the Terrans are. Convicts sent away and forced to live on their own, yes? Now a space marine is genetically enhanced and wears the coolest looking, most badass armor I've seen in any science fiction. But the pictures I've seen of the Terran marines make the armor look pretty bulky and heavy; not that the Power Armor isn't, but the 40k marines have genetic enhancements to allow them to carry more weight. I'm uncertain of the Terrans on this one. Also the 40k Marines get more technology available to them, and have the forces of millions of worlds to call upon. Now, looking at weaponry, the 40k Marine fires a .75 - 1.00 caliber explosive ****ing rocket from a bolter. The Terrans I'm unsure of, but the pictures suggest a pretty bigass gun too. In a melee, I would easily pick the 40k Marine as I've yet to see a power sword come from a Terran. In a more distant fire fight however, I would vote for the 40k Marine yet again, as bolters(and heavy bolters and the other variants) are just awesome. But the Terrans seem to be able to produce more much faster, but as the Imperium possesses millions upon millions of worlds, they are outnumbered no matter how many people you can train in 2 days.

I honestly don't know who to pick, so I went for the 40k Marines as I'm more familiar with them.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

I don't know, the whole melee thing in Warhammer seems to be a plot device more and not of any real use in a battlefield the Terrans frequently fight on. Besides, the Terrans use battleship armor for their power suites.

Some depictions of the CMC series do look like they are lumbering beasts, but so do space marine armor as well at first glance. The people who wear it don't seem to be depicted as so in the books.

I don't know the rate of fire for bolters are, but the Gauss series tends to have a 30 round per second rate of fire with a 500 round magazine. It says that it can penetrate 2 inches of steel, although whether or not it's referring to neosteel I'm not sure. The bolters don't appear to be designed for armor piercing, they look as if they are more suited towards flesh damage, IE, designed against the frequently unarmored orcs.

As for the existence of Terran melee weapons, the ghosts do have a psyblade and the UED do have close range plasma incinerators.

 

[Austupaio]

I don't know, the whole melee thing in Warhammer seems to be a plot device more and not of any real use in a battlefield the Terrans frequently fight on. Besides, the Terrans use battleship armor for their power suites.

Zerg and Protoss, and you're telling me melee wouldn't be useful?

I like Starcraft marines more, comparing the two is silly as both are about as based in reality as Atuin.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

The zerg can close in due to either stealth via burrowed underground, or hidden behind something. The protoss can close in due to the immensely powerful shields they have, they can also go invisible. The space marines don't tend to camouflage easily, nor do can they cloak. Besides, if they close in enough, a firebat would just throw plasma at it.

Edit:

But the Terrans seem to be able to produce more much faster, but as the Imperium possesses millions upon millions of worlds, they are outnumbered no matter how many people you can train in 2 days.

I don't know about how fast the Terrans can produce things, but dealing with the Imperium, the logistical support of the Terran fleets seem to be much much more flexible and fast. Their FTL technology seems to be quite advanced compared to the Imperiums' drives engines, and warp travel. This would theoretically allow the Terrans to mitigate the numerical advantage of the Imperium up to a point by bring more firepower to places where it counts.
And with technology viewed as some sort of magic and holy thing that only priests can mingle with, I'm not too confident of the Adeptus Mechanis figuring out how their drives work, although, the Terrans being the Terrans that they are, the Imperials are sure to find some sort of turncoat.

As for their lack of manpower, the Terrans have been known to "resocialize" people quite fast when they want to. A single lightly defend backwater would probably provide quite a few troopers for the Terrans.

 

[Danath]

The zerg can close in due to either stealth via burrowed underground, or hidden behind something.

Or just swarm the marines, like Tyranids . A good example of this is the SC:Ghost intro"
Also SC marines lack of  WH40K's marines fanaticism. Bad ass guys, but they panic as anyone, and reeducated ones aren't very clever.

 

[Do not look here]

But still, there stands my point that you would much more like to go to the bar on few shots and doe hunt with Terran marine who's not much more than badass looking convict then two meters tall raging semicrazy beast.

 

[Archonsod]

I beg to differ, Battlebarges certainly can beat ships larger than escort, Also, while I know Lexicanum has it's flaws, here is Lexicanum page on Battlebarges: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Battle_barge

Which says **** all I haven't already said Like I said, it's main armament is ordnance, highly useful for orbital strikes, less so against ships (larger ships can rely on shields and PD to take them out, smaller ships such as escorts can generally outmanoeuvre them). Ironically, they're most useful in BFG for the blast markers, otherwise known as the "why you shoot lasguns at Gargants" rule from Epic

I don't know, the whole melee thing in Warhammer seems to be a plot device

It depends on the foe. Orks are notoriously resistant to damage so the most effective way to kill them is to hack them to pieces, Nids likewise have an amazing regenerative capability. Throw into that things like warp shields, high tech armours or even holographic projections and really hand to hand becomes an important part of combat, in fact against some foes the only means of defeating them.

I don't know the rate of fire for bolters are, but the Gauss series tends to have a 30 round per second rate of fire with a 500 round magazine.

We were building gyrojet weapons with a 60 RPM rate of fire back in the sixties, so I'd assume the Imperium could do significantly better. Although saying that they do seem similar to a modern assault rifle; and unless using a drum or custom magazine load the sickle pattern clip only carries 30 rounds.

The bolters don't appear to be designed for armor piercing, they look as if they are more suited towards flesh damage, IE, designed against the frequently unarmored orcs.

Depends on the ammo. A standard bolt is explosive and designed for unarmoured targets, but you can also have kraken rounds which are capable of punching through a tank, or even psycannon rounds which bypass armour altogether in favour of psionic attack.

 

[CryoNomad]

Also SC marines lack of  WH40K's marines fanaticism.

I don't know what's more fanatic than brain-washed and controlled.

 

[Night Ninja]

Also SC marines lack of  WH40K's marines fanaticism.

I don't know what's more fanatic than brain-washed and controlled.

Compared to superhuman wingnuts drunk on hormones and battle lust?

 

[Swadius 2.0]

What has superhuman have to do with it how fanatic they are?
Half the recruits in the marines are drawn from convicts, aside from neurological implants, they basically have invasive surgery into their frontal lobes as well, not including the near constant application of stimpacks most marines have. And that's not even counting the special forces of the marines, like the reapers. It's probably overkill and not worth the cost of doing all this stuff to the average trooper, but from the books I was generally given the impression that the Terrans don't like dissent very much.