Space Marines v. Space Marines

[Night Ninja]

And ol' Roboute isn't an ordinary Marine either, he's a bloody primarch.

 

[Archonsod]

Well if it comes to that, the sodding Emperor's been sat on his arse even longer.

Though rumour has it the reason he's never stood up is because his fly is undone and he doesn't want to look stupid in front of the sycophants.

 

[Kazzan]

No the real reason is because he is hard and if he stood up the others would clearly see it. 

Space Marines would clearly win.

 

[Do not look here]

Sad... I always liked the "Ya wanna piece of me, boy?" and "Rock'n'Roll!" part.

Altough firebats were the real kickasses

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Seeing as though everybody here is mostly retarded and have no idea or haven't played either of these games let me tell from my experiences since I have.  Warhammer 40K will win hands down.  Let's list some reasons:
1. While your gauss rifles MAY penetrate 2 inches of steel, Boltguns WILL penetrate MORE than 2 inches of whatever it hits then will explode inside whatever it penetrated.  While the bullets the current soldier is Iraq are firing .223 caliber, the Boltguns fire .75 and do remember these are decimals.  They are also quite accurate.

Penetration isn't the only factor, I'm sure both sides will accommodate their weaponry to their opponents. Besides, aren't gauss weaponry in the same category as the ones the Necrons use?

2. While your guns may be able to shoot down a battlecruiser, that's a lighter armor of weaker stuff than what the Space Marines are wearing.  Ceramite is much stronger than steel and they wear MORE than 2 inches of it.

Supposedly, any battleship capable of entering into an atmosphere from orbit as well as surviving the rigors of space travel isn't going to be made from simple steel. Besides, I'm sure their power armor isn't 2 inches for the entire thing, from their experience of fighting the zerg I would guess that any surviving marine would know not to shoot at where the armor is thickest, and mind you, some of the zerg can have some very thick carapaces.
As you've no doubt read as you've claimed to have read the entire thread, like Arch suggested the most likely probability is that taking either entirely from the game or the literary works (in the case of warhammer) isn't the best course of action to determine the realities within the separate universes. A combination of both is likely to produce an accurate synopsis.

2.1. In the unlikely event you do manage to penetrate that stuff, Space Marines heal instantly.

As said, no they don't. If you've read it from a book, I would suggest you consider your sources. The Imperium is rife with propaganda.

3. Going back to that arena idea where we put one Marine and one Space Marine to fight, you guys were talking about your terran recon systems.  What about ours you reckon?

With the Terrans never having faced cataclysmic the way the Imperium has, we can conclude that they probably have cutting edge technology, while their counter parts are more likely to be only maintaining old systems. The infighting the Terrans take part in would probably increase the chances that they would be adept at information technology, that is to say, the sabotage of one's adversaries' support systems.

4. Just an extra note on Drop Pods, they can carry a squad of 10 Space Marines, or one Dreadnought.  They also come equipped with a storm bolter or a Deathwind Missile Launcher.  The launcher is effective on its own so in times when they would rather allocate their resources elsewhere they send empty Drop Pods with those in instead.

Fine, terrans don't usually have this sort of quick response capability primarily due to the fat that none of them ever really having a need for it. Keep in mind though, the naval tactics of the Terrans seem to be much more advanced than their WH counterparts. But then we're moving away from the individual capabilities of the marines themselves aren't we?

5. Terminator Armor is the god of all armor.  Pray to your god that terrorists don't magically get one.

Terminator armor was originally designed to fight in a confined space with the enemy to the front, there is an instance where a genestealer came from above and killed one. And if we were to compare the terminators, we would also need to take into consideration the Terran equivalent of it, either a more heavily armored and armed version or a Ghost.

6. Apothecaries DO save people from death and if you need sexual equality, they can always enlist in the Imperial Guard.

An Imperial Guardswoman is not a space marine. The terran one has flash bangs or the heavier military equivalent of it.

7. On the note of space battles, according to your game, battlecruiser range is VERY short.  To even stand a chance to damage a Battle Barge you will need no less than 20 battlecruisers.  Half will be gone by the time it gets in range to fire their Yamato Cannons.  Half of that will be lost charging their weapons.  The rest will be gone by the time they've fired.  Losses for Terrans: 20 battlecruisers and crew.  Losses for Space Marines: damaged or penetrated shields.  Also bear in mind that the weakest weapon in their arsenal could just have the thermonuclear power.

Again, taking the game as literal truth and ignoring the books can be a mistake if you're going to argue the realities of it. From the game Battlefleet Gothic, as well as sources from the Warhammer books, we know that the Imperial navy is a very slow navy. Particularly that of one that cannot fight with much cohesion due to the fact that once they move out of place to engage, they can't get back into the fight within a reasonable time frame. The starships of the Terran universe however doesn't seem to exhibit this. Not only does their smaller craft have the ability to cloak themselves, but they seem to have the ability to travel at a much faster rate than those of the Warhammer universe.
Their lavish use of nuclear weaponry might also give them an edge.

8. It's a magazine, not a clip.  They are completely different.

How is this relevant?

9. Balance doesn't apply in the tabletop version.

Why not? The cost of one marine is about the cost of two guardsmen. And a lucky shot from one can take out a space marine. It's not unheard of for some imperial guardsmen being comparable to space marines.

Spoiler

10. Their power armor may look too bulky and heavy, and believe me it is, but a Space Marine is genetically and biologically enhanced to be able to utilize the armor.  Let me list their enhancements:
10.1. Mucranoid - This is an organ that responds to stimuli causing the Marine to secrete a waxy substance that seals the skin.
10.2. Larraman's Organ - Instantaneous healing.
10.3. Omophagea - If they eat flesh, they can see a part of its memory.
10.4. Occulobe - Replacement eyes that are enhanced.
10.5. Secondary Heart - A second heart that increases blood flow and can take over if the primary heart is destroyed.
10.6. Biscopea - Produces muscle building hormones.
10.7. Oolitic Kidney - Allows the Marine to filter out poisons.
10.8. Preomnor - A pre-stomach that allows them to eat inedible materials.
10.9. Interface - Implants that allow the user to attach itself to power armor.
10.10. Haemastamen - Makes the blood more efficient.
10.11. Multi-lung - A third lung that can absorb more oxygen and can shut off the primary lungs in hazardous environments.
10.12. Lyman's Ear - Advanced hearing.
10.13. Sus-an Membrane - Allows the Marine to go into suspended animation.
10.14. Betcher's Gland - Makes the Space Marine's spit acidic.
10.15. Ossmodula - Increases bone growth to the extent that the ribcage is just a solid wall.
10.16. Neuroglottis - The Space Marine can test for toxicity by smell and taste.
10.17. Catalepsean Node - Allows the user to only require 4 hours of sleep and can shut off parts of the brain in succession in case he needs to stay awake for prolonged periods of time.
10.18. Progenoids - Receives the genes from other organs so they can be reproduced when these are removed.

Most of those organs are for a sustained and long trek, not one that directly relates to the instant of battle. I also suspect that the effectiveness is exaggerated given the Imperium's tendency to do so.
As for the enhancement of strength and speed, the armor a Terran marine has doesn't? I haven't noticed anything on there that says, computer assisted aiming. The immense integration of artificial intelligence into Terran life no doubt would have trickled from battlefield development.

 

[Do not look here]

7. On the note of space battles, according to your game, battlecruiser range is VERY short.  To even stand a chance to damage a Battle Barge you will need no less than 20 battlecruisers.  Half will be gone by the time it gets in range to fire their Yamato Cannons.  Half of that will be lost charging their weapons.  The rest will be gone by the time they've fired.  Losses for Terrans: 20 battlecruisers and crew.  Losses for Space Marines: damaged or penetrated shields.  Also bear in mind that the weakest weapon in their arsenal could just have the thermonuclear power.

Again, taking the game as literal truth and ignoring the books can be a mistake if you're going to argue the realities of it. From the game Battlefleet Gothic, as well as sources from the Warhammer books, we know that the Imperial navy is a very slow navy. Particularly that of one that cannot fight with much cohesion due to the fact that once they move out of place to engage, they can't get back into the fight within a reasonable time frame. The starships of the Terran universe however doesn't seem to exhibit this. Not only does their smaller craft have the ability to cloak themselves, but they seem to have the ability to travel at a much faster rate than those of the Warhammer universe.
Their lavish use of nuclear weaponry might also give them an edge.

Swadius, let me say that simpler - Wraiths, whole band of pilots shouting "Yeeeeee-Haaaa" in their suddenly appearing wraiths.

EDIT: And yeah, still forgeting about miracles of stimpack.

EDIT 2: when you think about it, Terran Marines have many improvements that Space Marines have, but they are technological. Clearer than toying with your own guts, isn't it?

 

[Swadius 2.0]

I also makes transitioning back to civilian life a bit easier . Not that it happens all that often... or at all as far as I know.

 

[CJ1145]

Here's an idea. Let's put the pinnacle of WH40k Space Marines against the pinnacle of Terran Space Marines and see who comes up on top.

I believe the fight would be something like Jim Raynor vs. SPACE JESUS.

Warhammer 40k, fluff or no, trumps Starcraft. The fact that the Space Marines can repel so many different threats with such relatively small numbers is a feat that the Terrans would weep at upon seeing. It's truly amazing no matter how you look at it.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

It's no question who would win, it's just that the reasons given why they would win are so badly formed.

Edit: I guess the pinnacle staple of the Terrans would likely be these guys:
http://www.starcraft2.com/features/terran/taurenmarine.xml

Or whatever the mech thing is in the bottom picture on this page:
http://www.starcraft2.com/features/terran/marine.xml

 

[Night Ninja]

The Imperium doesn't deal in small  numbers, by the way. The average sector fleet could probably outgun the SC universe twenty times over.

The problem is getting them there on time, and that's where the Marines come in. They're essentially the Imperium's rapid reaction force.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Yeah, but given the many threats that encircle the Imperium at the moment, I don't think they can dedicate their resources into subjugating an entire faction, the result of which is the Tau empire at its fringes.
There's absolutely no contest of numbers between the two. Although strategy and tactics will likely leave their mark, and I'm putting my money on the Terrans to technologically adapt to their adversaries rather than the other way around.

 

[Night Ninja]

The Terran navy simply isn't equipped to fight a war on that scale. And if all else fails, the Imperium could just send an ork space hulk into Terran space and sit back to watch the fireworks.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

The speed advantage and the cloaking that most of their craft have would favor some sort of guerrilla warfare, cutting supply lines, hit and run tactics and what not.

 

[Do not look here]

Well, to be honest, I would rather go on two shots to the bar with Terran Marine dressed as civilian, rather than with Space Marine.

Come on, drinking beer with guy that won't even fit into the doors? And what? Talking to ladies while you have some kind of panting, halfmad mutated beast on the second side of table?
Low chance of success.

Compare it to the normal, tattoed ex-criminal with short epic texts always ready.

 

[FrisianDude]

It's no question who would win, it's just that the reasons given why they would win are so badly formed.

Edit: I guess the pinnacle staple of the Terrans would likely be these guys:
http://www.starcraft2.com/features/terran/taurenmarine.xml

I am disappointed yet amazed at the same time.


To be honest, I've no doubt the Astartes would kick the SC Terran asses, but the SC terrans are simply cooler.

 

[Eino]

Terran would win. You Warhammer guys just have a hard on for over-oversized power armor.

Also the shinyness.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

The Terrans would quite likely be the ones to incorporate technology from the imperium. Given a few decades, they would probably be fielding better versions of the space marines themselves.

 

[Do not look here]

Nah, SC's Terrans with that technology would act much more like Tau...

like whiskey-drinking, cigars-smoking, fun-seeking, rock'n'roll-loving Tau, to be precise.

 

[Archonsod]

Terminator armor was originally designed to fight in a confined space with the enemy to the front

It wasn't. It was originally designed for maintenance of plasma cores. In terms of effectiveness, the main utility of the terminator armour is the ability to wield much heavier weaponry than otherwise, as an actual protective suit the main benefits it has over conventional power armour is much more robust hostile environment support and a near immunity to heat or energy based attacks (you could literally stand in the centre of a sun while wearing it). Any non-energy based attack has a good chance of damaging the suit (which is why genestealers can crack it open), however unlike conventional power armour the terminator armour contains several levels of backup systems making it much harder to take out of action than power armour. It's much bulkier than conventional armour too, and because movement is entirely dependent on the suit servo's the marine inside sacrifices his mobility and speed, which can be a particular problem in close combat.

Again, taking the game as literal truth and ignoring the books can be a mistake if you're going to argue the realities of it.

Particularly considering the battle barge is a transport vessel, not a warship. Even standard Imperial escort vessels are superior in combat capabilities than a battle barge. In fact, the main weapon of the battle barge is the marines themselves.

Their lavish use of nuclear weaponry might also give them an edge.

Against an actual warship of the Imperial Navy nuclear weapons would be ineffective. Ignoring the fact nukes are useless in space, they'd simply bounce off the void shield.

As for the enhancement of strength and speed, the armor a Terran marine has doesn't? I haven't noticed anything on there that says, computer assisted aiming. The immense integration of artificial intelligence into Terran life no doubt would have trickled from battlefield development.

Standard tactical display for power armour has target identification and highlighting capabilities, but it's left to the marine to provide the aim. The main intent of the display is squad communication and tactical analysis rather than a direct fighting aid. I very much doubt the Imperium would be entirely comfortable with any kind of machine spirit being placed inside power armour.

Warhammer 40k, fluff or no, trumps Starcraft. The fact that the Space Marines can repel so many different threats with such relatively small numbers is a feat that the Terrans would weep at upon seeing. It's truly amazing no matter how you look at it.

They can't. It's the guard that fights the wars, the Space Marines are an elite special force. If they were all the Imperium had to rely on there'd be Orks fighting over the Golden Throne within a week.

 

[Night Ninja]

According to BFG, the battle barge's armament is similar or superior to most Imperial battlecruisers and comparable to the older marks of battleships They're designed to put the Marines on a planet while under fire, and that necessitates a certain amount of firepower and protection.