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Brandon

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Throughout a lot of threads here I am seeing a common desire for deeper political/dynasty mechanics (ex: marriage, succession, dynastic management, nobility ranks, revolts/coups, internal kingdom conflicts/politics) and I don't see these things linked in this list. I went through and found a few examples below. I'm not sure if this should be all listed in one overall category as politics/dynasty mechanism or if it should be broken up into separate groups so I did my best to try and label the topics discussed in each post.


Revolts, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...y-and-military-alliances.415148/#post-9366336

Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/internal-politics.412821/

Nobility Rankings / Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/nobility-titles-politics.405366/

Marriage - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-life-and-progeny-overhaul-suggestion.419080/

Marriage, Coups/Revolts, Assassinations, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ons-to-make-the-world-feel-more-alive.417519/

Marriage, Succession, Internal Politics, Coups - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-romance-stuff-extended-v1-1-22-04-20.418454/

Marriage, Dynastic Management, Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/complaints-and-suggestions.412252/

Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ons-by-different-succession-mechanics.402297/

Dynasty Management - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/for-dev-dynasties-families-in-ea.395893/

Marriage, Dynasty Management, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...and-a-long-haul-campaign.410712/#post-9353805

Marriage, Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/succession.412798/
 
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Shields for every faction's tier 2 infantry -
A small change, but it could go a long way for the balance and flow of the troop tree. I propose that every faction's tier 2 main infantry get shields, similar to Warband. Currently, only three factions have shields on their tier 2 infantry (Sturgia, Empire, and Khuzait) while Aserai, Vlandia, and Battania have no shielded infantry until tier 3, which is a huge setback.

Something simple like an old horseman's kite shield for Vlandian Footmen, a southern round shield or desert oval shield for Aserai Tribesmen, and a heater shield for Battanian Clan Warriors would improve the balance between Tier 2 infantry immensely.
 

GG Cannon

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Throughout a lot of threads here I am seeing a common desire for deeper political/dynasty mechanics (ex: marriage, succession, dynastic management, nobility ranks, revolts/coups, internal kingdom conflicts/politics) and I don't see these things linked in this list. I went through and found a few examples below. I'm not sure if this should be all listed in one overall category as politics/dynasty mechanism or if it should be broken up into separate groups so I did my best to try and label the topics discussed in each post.


Revolts, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...y-and-military-alliances.415148/#post-9366336

Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/internal-politics.412821/

Nobility Rankings / Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/nobility-titles-politics.405366/

Marriage - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-life-and-progeny-overhaul-suggestion.419080/

Marriage, Coups/Revolts, Assassinations, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ons-to-make-the-world-feel-more-alive.417519/

Marriage, Succession, Internal Politics, Coups - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-romance-stuff-extended-v1-1-22-04-20.418454/

Marriage, Dynastic Management, Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/complaints-and-suggestions.412252/

Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ons-by-different-succession-mechanics.402297/

Dynasty Management - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/for-dev-dynasties-families-in-ea.395893/

Marriage, Dynasty Management, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...and-a-long-haul-campaign.410712/#post-9353805

Marriage, Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/succession.412798/
Besides that post you tagged, I also made one about marrying just about any NPC in the game, even townspeople and villager peasants which I also feel falls into this category.

I believe everyone currently wishes for more fleshed out relationships, diplomacy, politics, marriage, dynasty, succession and human interactions.
If this is approached correctly, a game could even be extended indefinitely with infinite game time.
You could unite a kingdom, grow old, start playing as one of your children or a completely different person in the world, the king(previous you) dies, succession battles begin, the kingdom is broken apart, smaller factions and foreigners come and start to take fiefs, everything starts all over again with all the king's sons and daughters fighting together and against foreigners.

If TW approaches this just right, they can create the most epic game ever in a matter of being possible to play it forever and always having something to do to enjoy yourself with a never ending story of several lineages or following a single bloodline forever.

I also believe TW is listening closely to us on this topic and considering quite heavily the impact this can and will have in the game and the depth of the world within the game, so that now is precisely the time for us to make some noise, suggest and comment what we want, what we expect and what we believe to be feasible and within reach while it is still being dilapidated.
 

danielpm307

Recruit
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Throughout a lot of threads here I am seeing a common desire for deeper political/dynasty mechanics (ex: marriage, succession, dynastic management, nobility ranks, revolts/coups, internal kingdom conflicts/politics) and I don't see these things linked in this list. I went through and found a few examples below. I'm not sure if this should be all listed in one overall category as politics/dynasty mechanism or if it should be broken up into separate groups so I did my best to try and label the topics discussed in each post.


Revolts, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...y-and-military-alliances.415148/#post-9366336

Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/internal-politics.412821/

Nobility Rankings / Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/nobility-titles-politics.405366/

Marriage - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-life-and-progeny-overhaul-suggestion.419080/

Marriage, Coups/Revolts, Assassinations, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ons-to-make-the-world-feel-more-alive.417519/

Marriage, Succession, Internal Politics, Coups - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-romance-stuff-extended-v1-1-22-04-20.418454/

Marriage, Dynastic Management, Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/complaints-and-suggestions.412252/

Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ons-by-different-succession-mechanics.402297/

Dynasty Management - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/for-dev-dynasties-families-in-ea.395893/

Marriage, Dynasty Management, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...and-a-long-haul-campaign.410712/#post-9353805

Marriage, Succession, Internal Politics - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/succession.412798/
no one care
i broke up with share my feedback ,save my time to other publisher
 

Count Delinard

Lord of Uxkhal
Global Moderator
WBNWVC
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Some of the posts above have threads that reach our minimum activity standards, I'll add them tomorrow.
 

Brandon

Recruit
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Besides that post you tagged, I also made one about marrying just about any NPC in the game, even townspeople and villager peasants which I also feel falls into this category.

I believe everyone currently wishes for more fleshed out relationships, diplomacy, politics, marriage, dynasty, succession and human interactions.
If this is approached correctly, a game could even be extended indefinitely with infinite game time.
You could unite a kingdom, grow old, start playing as one of your children or a completely different person in the world, the king(previous you) dies, succession battles begin, the kingdom is broken apart, smaller factions and foreigners come and start to take fiefs, everything starts all over again with all the king's sons and daughters fighting together and against foreigners.

If TW approaches this just right, they can create the most epic game ever in a matter of being possible to play it forever and always having something to do to enjoy yourself with a never ending story of several lineages or following a single bloodline forever.

I also believe TW is listening closely to us on this topic and considering quite heavily the impact this can and will have in the game and the depth of the world within the game, so that now is precisely the time for us to make some noise, suggest and comment what we want, what we expect and what we believe to be feasible and within reach while it is still being dilapidated.

Well said. I completely agree. For me dynastic politics is the number 1 feature I'd like to see included in the game, obviously this would involve fleshed out politics, dynasty building mechanism, succession, marriage, relationships and diplomacy. I also agree that including these type of features in the game would take the game to a whole new level, making it a ground breaking game and extremely unique. It could really set up the franchise for a huge success. Taking it a step further by adding in features like rebellions, succession wars, coups, plots, or even foreign invasions and this game could have an infinite game time, a true sandbox world you could enter and never get bored in. This would easily become my favorite game and the number one suggestion I give to any of my friends looking for a new game to play.

Some of the posts above have threads that reach our minimum activity standards, I'll add them tomorrow.
Thank you for your time!
 

Maximuuus

Regular
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Don't forget that it's nearly impossible to suggest and discuss about improvement when we don't have ANY ideas about your roadmap....

Many suggestions are good and have no answers because... There is no roadmap...
We don't know what is really missing, what you are working on, what you plan to add in the future...
(or there are 0 details, i.e for diplomacy... Ally ? Non agression pacts ? definitive UI ?...)

All suggestions are based on what we see now in the game and what we imagine... Half of them are probably useless because they talked about something that is not ended, or maybe it is... we don't know...
(i.e : hidouts improvement, diplomacy, relations and discussions, banquets, new quests, fiefs maganement, clan/kingdom management,......)

Hard to be constructive here if we don't have any clue about what you plan...
Is there a problem, something that's not fun and that can be improved by suggestions, or some features are just missing ?

That's probably why you have so many empty threads... players can't wait to suggest because many things are missing... And other don't talk about suggestions because... they're just waiting... We're all waiting, but we don't know what...

Not sure that's the way an EA should be.
 
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andycott

Veteran
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Don't forget that it's nearly impossible to suggest and discuss about improvement when we don't have ANY ideas about your roadmap....

Many suggestions are good and have no answers because... There is no roadmap...
We don't know what is really missing, what you are working on, what you plan to add in the future...
(or there are 0 details, i.e for diplomacy... Ally ? Non agression pacts ? definitive UI ?...)

All suggestions are based on what we see now in the game and what we imagine... Half of them are probably useless because they talked about something that is not ended, or maybe it is... we don't know...
(i.e : hidouts improvement, diplomacy, relations and discussions, banquets, new quests, fiefs maganement, clan/kingdom management,......)

Hard to be constructive here if we don't have any clue about what you plan...
Is there a problem, something that's not fun and that can be improved by suggestions, or some features are just missing ?

That's probably why you have so many empty threads... players can't wait to suggest because many things are missing... And other don't talk about suggestions because... they're just waiting... We're all waiting, but we don't know what...

Not sure that's the way an EA should be.
+
There needs to be a roadmap. If there is a developing plan, we want to see it.
 
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Woopzilla

Knight
WBNWM&BWF&SVC
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I think the criteria for a thread needs to relaxed depending on what category it is for... seeing as the UI has zero links listed. I'd say it's reasonable to assume a thread regarding the UI isn't going to generate huge amounts of replies.

The UI for the game has many aspects that could be improved, yet the entire UI sub-forum totalled has less replies than some single threads in other sub-forums. This surely can't be taken as a sign that the UI is perfect and in no need of improvement.

I think the problem is also that these forums are incredibly deeply embedded. You're not going to have masses of people digging 4 sub-forums deep to read a thread on page 3 to add their voice to a minor quality-of-life change that is commonplace in just about every other game (being able to dismiss the right-hand side popups with a right-click, for example). It's no wonder that so many people bug-report and discuss feedback in the general discussion area instead of their dedicated forums, because otherwise they just go unnoticed. Gameplay related forums are also just going to attract more traffic.

I just feel like this thread gives a slight feeling of 'hey, if it's not here, it can't be that important' feel (and I know that obviously isn't its intent). It's definitely a good idea and effort though, and time-constrained devs are going to want to look at condensed lists instead of personally combing through forums - that's why it's important to be a bit more inclusive. I'm just worried that devs might get in a habit of what most people do on twitch (to use it as a comparison): You'll browse a game category and glance over the top 10 listed streamers and probably won't bother scrolling down all the way to check out that guy with 0 viewers.

This might come off as a little whiny (yes, I've submitted a UI suggestion too), but there are definitely several threads in there with great suggestions, and some of them aren't very long at all because some changes really are just quite basic and don't need much fanfare:

E.g.:
or https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/encyclopedia-revamp.416311/
...and lastly, in my humble and unbiased opinion, my own thread: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...mber-unit-positions-via-a-lock-option.409545/
 
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Count Delinard

Lord of Uxkhal
Global Moderator
WBNWVC
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I think the criteria for a thread needs to relaxed depending on what category it is for... seeing as the UI has zero links listed. I'd say it's reasonable to assume a thread regarding the UI isn't going to generate huge amounts of replies.
I agree with you, and we'll do that when we have time.

I think the problem is also that these forums are incredibly deeply embedded. You're not going to have masses of people digging 4 sub-forums deep to read a thread on page 3 to add their voice to a minor quality-of-life change that is commonplace in just about every other game
This is a problem yes, spreading activity too thin can kill discussions before they get the chance to flourish, we will be analyzing forum stats and making structural decisions based on what we see but this is a clear trend.
 

Keleborn

Recruit
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To consider offers according to activity criteria is the wrong tactic. One player can make valuable and useful suggestions, while his topic will not gain enough activity. Conversely, a stupid topic with a stupid sentence can gain more activity and be discussed. For example, I have wonderful suggestions, however, my topic has not yet gained any activity. From this, my proposals do not become useless, irrelevant or less valuable. Players can not write in topics for various reasons, simply because they were too lazy to put a plus, etc. You need to radically change your approach and begin to consider each proposal, regardless of activity. To do this, you can change the forum sections, create a ticket system and come up with various other ways.

Suggestions and feedback are the most valuable information for any developer, which allows you to make the game better, get feedback from players, their preferences and desires. You need to work with these materials.

I really do not like the fact that my offers will be ignored only because other players have not unsubscribed in my topic. I may not offer ideas to improve the game, but in this case you will not receive material to improve the game, and I will not have the opportunity to see in the game what I would like to see.
 

Brandon

Recruit
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What are the minimum activity standards? There are some links posted above that have some pretty great details and suggestions and I am surprised that they didn’t make the list.
 

Count Delinard

Lord of Uxkhal
Global Moderator
WBNWVC
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To consider offers according to activity criteria is the wrong tactic. One player can make valuable and useful suggestions, while his topic will not gain enough activity.
What are the minimum activity standards?
Again, as was stated in the previous pages of this thread:

Initially we planned to do exactly that: adding all suggestions. The problem as Piconi mentioned himself is that there are more than 10,000 threads for BL already, more than half of them giving feedback or suggestions, if we were to include every single thread we would not only be replicating the entire forums inside a thread, but also it’s impossible for our team to catch up, let alone stay up to date with every 1 post thread out there.

We do not necessarily agree with every suggestion you’ll see in this thread, but these are the ones the community has cared the most about so far in terms of a combination between views and replies.
We talked about the very same thing in this thread's previous page. Many of the suggestions in the OP are not controversial at all, and they only have players discussing further ways to improve things. There are more than 10.000 bannerlord threads already, manually curating every single one of them is unrealistic and thus we had to choose criteria that would make the effort more manageable and that would shine a light on suggestions that are at least generating interest in the community in the form of activity.
We agree with your points, it's just not technically feasible to scourge the forums while they are moving so fast. However:

This is a problem yes, spreading activity too thin can kill discussions before they get the chance to flourish, we will be analyzing forum stats and making structural decisions based on what we see but this is a clear trend.
I agree with you, and we'll do that when we have time.
We do have plans when it comes to reviewing criteria and changing the process, so hang on tight :smile:
 

GG Cannon

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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@Count Delinard
If possible, I'd like to ask for a review to my post Spears are weak. I made it just last night before sleeping, it is getting movement and attention.

I don't know if I'm allowed to share this information, as you didn't mention it yourself, so feel free to edit or even delete this post of mine if you wish, but
@Zydrate & @Brandon, spamming your own post or situations like my compilation thread indexing my posts might not count as most of the replies are all me, which means there is no "discussion" on the topic which might be what TaleWorlds is looking for.

This also means that the greatest courtesy you can make to someone else here on the forum and the greatest support you can give to a suggestion or feedback is leave a small reply commenting your thoughts or what you like on that suggestion and what you think about the issue it is fixing.

I really wish my compilation thread would sooner or later be added to the top feedback as well, but due to the fact I'm almost the only one commenting and TW does not consider its stats as the collective of the tagged threads, but individually, might just as well mean it will never be added. 😕
Anyway, it is comprehensible as TW can't really pay attention to every single post and would require to give more of its attention to that which brings the biggest cut of the community discussing together, yet I am really happy that they are considering changes to the criteria needed, as that gives a small chance that other posts of mine that didn't get that much activity to be added ^^

If I can make a small suggestion on that topic, I'd say to split the top feedback thread in 3, either 3 individual "top"s or 3 sections within the same thread, each split in the 5 categories you currently use, Campaign, Scenes, UI, Custom Battle, Compilation Threads.
  1. Top activity
    The current top list

  2. Top curated
    A list consisted of threads handpicked by the moderators and administrators themselves. These can consist of threads that don't have a single reply, even, but all of which the staff itself considered should receive some discussion on top and that they would like to hear the thoughts of the community on top or they themselves think they are deserving of being called a "top suggestion" and should have a chance of being added to the native game, later on. You'd have way more freedom on your internal criteria on how to select and how many each of you can select a day, or even if you'd leave the name of the staff that selected the thread or not on the list.

  3. Top votes
    Suggestions with polls with above a certain amount of votes to them. The thread itself might not have a single reply, but the poll having enough votes to it to warrant it being added to the top feedbacks.
These 3 different list would give you space to curate yourselves that which you guys find interesting, little by little, and the community would have 2 different paths to add threads to the top feedbacks, verbal and non-verbal activity.

The most important thing being to state the criteria clearly for the community to know what they need to do to truly support a thread and get it into the top feedbacks, which would mean that supporting an idea would become leaving a reply and voting in the poll which falls within what TW wants to see and hear from the community regarding the feedbacks.

You'd also not lose the current top feedbacks and would not have to rework the whole current criteria.
It'd give a small amount of work for you guys at first due to having to check all the threads for the curated list yourselves, but that can be done starting from the first and last pages in the feedbacks section and moving little by little to the middle pages and making a thread specifically so people can request review from you guys to their feedback threads they believe to be most deserving but don't fill the criteria for lists 1 and 3.
 
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@Count Delinard
@Zydrate & @Brandon, spamming your own post or situations like my compilation thread indexing my posts might not count as most of the replies are all me, which means there is no "discussion" on the topic which might be what TaleWorlds is looking for.
I mean come on, do you geniunely believe a suggestion has to be talked and discussed upon for hours to be worth considering? Arguments don't last forever and at some point all the arguments and points will well be summarized in a thread to the point where there can be no further productive discussion.
These "criteria" and their refusal to communicate their plans to the community and assure them leads me to believe they've some major issues with their community communication staff because this is definitely not efficient.
 
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GG Cannon

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I mean come on, do you geniunely believe a suggestion has to be talked and discussed upon for hours to be worth considering? Arguments don't last forever and at some point all the arguments and points will well be summarized in a thread to the point where there can be no further productive discussion.
These "criteria" and their refusal to communicate their plans to the community and assure them leads me to believe they've some major issues with their community communication staff because this is definitely not efficient.
I wouldn't agree to that.
From a standpoint of a company, there is such a thing a niche bias, so it is understandable why they'd want a minimum of discussion and views so that people can disagree more so than that people may agree.
I don't quite feel that they lack to communicate that much, as the moderators are really very approachable, but that they should communicate more on certain things, like stating their criteria, sharing their internal plans for future development, and things like that, which don't really fall only on the hands of the forum staff but require approval and information from higher up in the hierarchy of the company as well.

That is why I stated that there should be more than one top list, each with a different criteria, maybe even a fourth, fifth or sixth list criteria than the ones I mentioned.
 
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I wouldn't agree to that.
From a standpoint of a company, there is such a thing a niche bias, so it is understandable why they'd want a minimum of discussion and views so that people can disagree more so than that people may agree.
I don't quite feel that they lack to communicate that much, as the moderators are really very approachable, but that they should communicate more on certain things, like stating their criteria, sharing their internal plans for future development, and things like that, which don't really fall only on the hands of the forum staff but require approval and information from higher up in the hierarchy of the company as well.

That is why I stated that there should be more than one top list, each with a different criteria, maybe even a fourth, fifth or sixth list criteria than the ones I mentioned.
Or summarize and refine a whole thread along with all the different points? Why link an entire thread for simple suggestions?

By communication I mean letting the community know what they're working on, and what they plan to work on, are they doing that?
they've some major issues WITH their community communication staff
 

Brandon

Recruit
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If I can make a suggestion on this compilation list, it would be to make sure major topics are represented with links to 2 or 3 threads if they exist, regardless if they reach the current minimum activity criteria. For an example the topics, politics and diplomacy, do not appear once in this compilation list despite the fact that a simple query on the terms “politics” or “diplomacy” brings up a lot of results and is something people are clearly looking for. There is also minimal reference to dynasty mechanics, with only one link to thread asking if the dynasty system was going to make it into EA and contributors to that thread eventually devolving into a discussion about what game engine is being used… As I read through the threads Dynasty mechanics seems to be a primary desire for many of us here and it doesn’t seem to really be represent well at all in this compilation thread so that is a bit worrisome.

Here is a list of major topics that I noticed that are missing or under-represented in this compilation list:

  • Politics
  • Dynasty System, Succession
  • Diplomacy
  • Unique wars – Rebellions, Coups, Invasions
The first 3 at least should be considered major topics because they are core mechanics of the game that currently seem extremely bare-bones and empty.

Please understand this isn't harsh criticism of you guys, I can't imagine how hard it is to manage all of this feedback, this is just a suggestion that I believe would be helpful.