Native OSP Scenes [SP, Add-on, OP, WB 1.134] Towers, walls and ladders. V1.5

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After reading this thread and trying out your siege pack, being desperate for one to improve vanilla sieges, I found many things I was unsatisfied with, (sorry  :cry:), so I took it upon myself to edit every scene you did in the game, and revert several back to the originals and edit those. I took that link provided to the lords and realms siege pack and learned, over the past 4-5 days and many long hours, learned how and fixed many of the scenes.

I deleted/adjusted scene props that were changed by polished landscapes that appeared odd or out of place in your scenes, changed or removed ladders in several scenes (when those ladders proved to be more of a hindrance to the AI than an asset), adjusted the spawn point for the attackers (point 0) and, as that guide suggested, moved it so that the AI approached the ladders in a more even distribution. More or less they try to use all three ladders, they have to approach them all with an even distance between them, not just coming from one side, or they'll only use the closest ladder. I added ai limiters on certain sieges where the AI appeared be getting stuck and going brainless. (They'd fall off a ladder and just stop attacking, acting like a zombie while everyone else died, eventually standing there until the battle was over and either someone killed them or the player is forced to quit. Not compatible with battle continuation if they don't finish the siege on their own.)
As I said I also converted back to the default scenes on several cities because they seemed unfinished, Dhirim and one of the Sarranid cities for example, the latter of which having a huge ugly dirt wall out front, in addition to being bugged horribly for the AI. Suno I also reverted back to default on, as I disagreed with the design decision. You had a gatehouse leading into a courtyard with NO OTHER GATEHOUSE inside. The only way into the city through that gate house was the ladders that an enemy supposedly put up. If the city wasn't at siege WHAT PURPOSE would that gatehouse possible have? I also adjusted the spawn points for all defenders on just about every scene, moving archers, the defense point, where reinforcement waves spawn, etc. Several scenes didn't make much sense to me in this so I adjusted them to my taste.

Basically, I did a huge but testing sweep for the AI and polished landscapes. I've finished all the castles and I'm halfway done with the cities, I'm certain I didn't fix 100% of the AI's problems but many of the gross errors that they'd encounter have been dealt with. I couldn't stand the AI just breaking on the walls after I get knocked out and being forced to alt-f4 to get out of the siege because they're just standing there not doing anything, you can't retreat in battle continuation when you're knocked out. I lastly edited the AI mesh, when of course necessary for new or removing ladders, and on the ground when AI traffic clogged in strange patterns.

So after these many hours my advice to you for your scene editing is to test test and test again, the AI has to be nudged and guided in a certain direction with the AI mesh and ai limiters.
Getting the AI to use more than one ladder is tricky, adjusting the spawn point 0 so they approach it evenly helps drastically, though it gets even harder if you're dealing with one of those interior walls you designed with yet more ladders. At that point you'd have to change the AI mesh so that the path the AI follows (the shortest one) has them spread out across the ladders. The path to no one ladder should be shorter than the others or they will ALWAYS go for that ladder. The physical distance between the men and two ladders may differ but if you increase or decrease the number of faces in between them and a ladder you can guide them in the right direction.

(I also realize this is a bit of a late post, but the forum is a bit of a backwater to your main mod forum, hope you're still reading here.)
 
Something else to add, a consistent bug I keep running into with your walls is the AI mesh causing units to get stuck. I'm on the rock of rivacheg at the moment trying to pluck men off of jagged corners on the ramparts because they don't know how to get around them. By the looks of things I assume it's because they're trying to go from the center of one AI mesh face to the next, the problem being something in their way that they can't walk over. They're getting stuck on small little jutting stone walls ontop of the ramparts because the AI mesh for, the tower in this case, is a single square that covers the entire tower. This is directly adjacent to a rectangle shaped AI mesh that runs the length of this section of the wall. When those men move from the AI mesh adjacent to these two, they pick either one as a destination because it is connected to the one they're in. Most of the men follow the wall just fine, a select few however choose to go to the towers AI mesh and then back to the wall and end up stuck. If an AI mesh, the gray space, is at all connected to any other mesh face, even by one of the corners (the vertices) it is treated as adjacent and therefore a path from one mesh to the next.
This usually doesn't matter if you're dealing with an open field, there's nothing for them to run into in the path they plot, but on a wall with small objects sticking up and little walls and corners you have to make a more complex AI mesh to deal with it.

They need a pre-defined path to follow from the center of one AI mesh face to the next, that gets them around small hitches and blocks that they can't walk over. This is also the reason why soldiers will cluster to the one side of a stairway for example when they're moving down it. The AI mesh on the stair is a flat rectangle that runs its entire length, and they're trying to go from the center of this mesh face to the next adjacent (connected) mesh that is closest. Often this is the mesh directly beneath and next to the stair so they're all hugging that side of the mesh trying to reach it, but they're not allowed to fall off the side. The simpler in detail the AI mesh the stupider the AI is going to behave when dealing with obstructions. So you either have to increase the complexity of your AI meshes to compensate or lower the detail on your scenes, at least in areas where traffic is expected.
After dumping hours upon hours into this I have a new found appreciation for people who make scenes and how much trouble it is. I must have spent at least 6 hours a day for the past week working on this (It's really sucked me in) and I'm still not finished. At this point I'm just tweaking the AI meshes, adding complexity to them to deal with obstructions takes a long time so if I can get the AI to run through without getting stuck at least then that's enough for me.
 
Heh, actually I already did. It's posted in the Floris mod pack sub forum, but here's a link.
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2694
 
This is magnificent! I'm downloading now, can't wait to try this by you and smarmellows :smile:

Hopefully my Vaegers will be less dumb and get themselves less slaughtered.

Maybe my only complaint is to have a small guide as to what cities 1-24 are
 
Wooah, late reply. Heh heh, sorry, this thread has gone on a back burner for me. I've just been using the Floris thread as well as the comments section on the download in the repository to keep up with feedback. If you still need to know what cities are which, (though doubtful), it's in the parties.txt.
Here's a bit of ugly code from it,
1 24 24 p_town_4 Suno 4219916 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 -70.000000 15.400000 -70.000000 15.400000 -70.000000 15.400000 0.0 0
5.061455
From this you can see that Suno is town 4.

Hope that helps, even though I'm months late on the reply.
 
Hi !

First, sorry for my English, I'm French !

I just like to know if this mod add on  working for V 1.150 of Warband native.
I see that : "This add-on is functional in version 1.131."

Is it up to date? :smile:

Thanks a lot !
 
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