Somethings gotta give

[McDadden]

Many have posted and talked about army or lord spam. I just wanted to show absolute proof there is something weird when it comes to ai lords spawning in with way more troops than they should. I often wonder where they get them.
This link shows the status of a current war with the Western Empire (would've posted them direct in the thread, but the forum is having issues with that): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2608435805
Tadeos was captured then six days later in game there he is with a fully stocked army: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2608435015

What's crazy about this is they have lost thousands of troops already by this point and would've used up their garrisons (considering the ruler only owns one of their few towns) and has very few villages to actively recruit from. This is why people are getting discouraged with the game. The battles are truly meaningless if you can beat the ruler, put him in jail, and he's out and back on the field with 200 men in 6 days. That's ridiculous.

 

[Apocal]

What's crazy about this is they have lost thousands of troops already by this point and would've used up their garrisons (considering the ruler only owns one of their few towns) and has very few villages to actively recruit from.

They recruit from neutral villages, unless they are too far away. Also, there was a change made so that now notables directly produce high tier troops instead of having to level them up from recruits.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I agree TW needs to do something at some point about this and other common complaints regarding the futility of wars. For some parts an option might be best, such as the campaign AI option in warband which greatly effected the quality of troops the AI had. For some parts though they certainly should have improvements to the base game, such as control over vassals and fiefs and options to actually have some kind of game play after making a kingdom.

 

[Lesbosisles]

Wish the player could have a way to get a high tier troops fast at higher levels. I mean, if you lose a battle - you will lose the whole party. And then you will have to run around, hiring recruits and level them up again instead of helping ur AI fellas in war.

 

[Lucius Confucius]

The problem is that we the community asked for ways to stop snowballing. If lords are made weaker, then snowballing might become a problem again.

Though there may be other ways to stop snowballing.

 

[Askorti]

TW attempted to fix a problem (snowballing) by using the simplest measures they could. This way they created this new problem. Had they instead opted to use more involved solutions (like altering AI behaviors and curbing player's ability to push the advantage on their own) they would not have had this new issue on their hands. Though who knows what other issue would arise out of that...

 

[Ser Jon]

It's a back and forth with TW. They create a problem, "solve" it the simplest way they can, which creates another problem and so on and so forth. Perhaps a more robust AI could solve it, but I don't think TW knows how to make the AI any better or if their current engines will allow this. The best they'll probably come up with eventually is player control.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

It's a back and forth with TW. They create a problem, "solve" it the simplest way they can, which creates another problem and so on and so forth. Perhaps a more robust AI could solve it, but I don't think TW knows how to make the AI any better or if their current engines will allow this. The best they'll probably come up with eventually is player control.

This seems to be the cycle. They'll fix 5 issues and then create 4 new ones. Maybe one day the game will be fixed if they have a ratio like that. TW was never in the business of overhauling anything when EA happened. They only are willing to make minor changes to things. I don't think a lot of people would've been cool with that reality had they been told that when the game was released.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

The problem is that we the community asked for ways to stop snowballing

The problem is 100% on TW. They have LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of work to do, saying "we did X to fix Y, the end" is not acceptable. They need to create new systems and options so the player has rewarding and fulfilling gameplay.

Players don't want the AI to come back so soon after a defeat. Players want time to do all thier village quests and whatever else in between having to fight an army or chase of raider. Players DO WANT AI to have decent troops when they come to fight. Although I think it's okay for the notables to have more t2+ troops available, I think the AI having too many recruits would be better solved by MAKING THE AI fight bandits and do issues in thier own area and actually level up troops to a higher rank before being able to join an army or consider other hostile choices. To be clear, my number 1 desire for the AI is for them to HAVE TO SPEND CAMPAIGN TIME DOING NON-WAR THINGS in order to maintain thier parties and fiefs! As it is they do almost nothing but war activities and the whole AI system is built around keeping them in war activities all the time!
They need to also address all other bull the AI does.
AI should not be able to upgrade with out upgrade items (horses): Yeah they sometimes won't have as many Cav and will be slow and lose battles in auto clac, GOOD GOOD GOOD!
No money should ever be given to the AI in any non-loot/fief/issue reward way. None at all, ever. If that gets them stuck sometime GOOD. It they don't do issues, win tournaments, fight bandits exc, THEN NO PARTY FOR THEM, that's GOOD, it makes the game better and not so fake!
AI should not remotely recruit mercenaries or clans or create marry or any other remote functions. They should have to walk on the map the like the ****ing player for every single thing in the game, ALWAYS. No teleporting either, no party? Oh well you gotta run on the map to the next town, hope you cleared all the looters you dum ****.
AI should not know the amount of food or recruit fiefs have, it okay for them to waste more time or starve, this make the game better and less fake.
AI not being able to pay anyone needs a much harsher an immediate consequence. They hires mercs based on paying on influence, if they're eve 1 denar sort the merc should turn on them and attack them.
With no fiefs Clans need VERY QUICKLY leave the faction. Faction with no fiefs or vassals need to leave the game. We do not want landless clans raiding villages forever, make them go to other faction or leave the game, or some other mechanic such as they become and outlaw clan and ca be killed with zero relation penalties.
There's so much I can't even get through it all. In short constant AI battles is boring and fake, AI getting completely ****ed sometimes is good and interesting.

 

[Mad Vader]

As it is they do almost nothing but war activities and the whole AI system is built around keeping them in war activities all the time!

The Ottoman Empire was designed as a tax collection organization for supporting the military. So if you see a system built around keeping the AI armies at war all the time, you know it was built by nostalgic Turks.

 

[Jella]

The problem is 100% on TW. They have LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of work to do, saying "we did X to fix Y, the end" is not acceptable. They need to create new systems and options so the player has rewarding and fulfilling gameplay.

Players don't want the AI to come back so soon after a defeat. Players want time to do all thier village quests and whatever else in between having to fight an army or chase of raider. Players DO WANT AI to have decent troops when they come to fight. Although I think it's okay for the notables to have more t2+ troops available, I think the AI having too many recruits would be better solved by MAKING THE AI fight bandits and do issues in thier own area and actually level up troops to a higher rank before being able to join an army or consider other hostile choices. To be clear, my number 1 desire for the AI is for them to HAVE TO SPEND CAMPAIGN TIME DOING NON-WAR THINGS in order to maintain thier parties and fiefs! As it is they do almost nothing but war activities and the whole AI system is built around keeping them in war activities all the time!
They need to also address all other bull the AI does.
AI should not be able to upgrade with out upgrade items (horses): Yeah they sometimes won't have as many Cav and will be slow and lose battles in auto clac, GOOD GOOD GOOD!
No money should ever be given to the AI in any non-loot/fief/issue reward way. None at all, ever. If that gets them stuck sometime GOOD. It they don't do issues, win tournaments, fight bandits exc, THEN NO PARTY FOR THEM, that's GOOD, it makes the game better and not so fake!
AI should not remotely recruit mercenaries or clans or create marry or any other remote functions. They should have to walk on the map the like the ****ing player for every single thing in the game, ALWAYS. No teleporting either, no party? Oh well you gotta run on the map to the next town, hope you cleared all the looters you dum ****.
AI should not know the amount of food or recruit fiefs have, it okay for them to waste more time or starve, this make the game better and less fake.
AI not being able to pay anyone needs a much harsher an immediate consequence. They hires mercs based on paying on influence, if they're eve 1 denar sort the merc should turn on them and attack them.
With no fiefs Clans need VERY QUICKLY leave the faction. Faction with no fiefs or vassals need to leave the game. We do not want landless clans raiding villages forever, make them go to other faction or leave the game, or some other mechanic such as they become and outlaw clan and ca be killed with zero relation penalties.
There's so much I can't even get through it all. In short constant AI battles is boring and fake, AI getting completely ****ed sometimes is good and interesting.

gad dem TW u should hire this guy

 

[Gandamula]

In every game I've played in my life AI has always cheated, it's nothing new, since the 90s the graphics have evolved 1000% but the AI in games remains very basic, the day you invent a generic AI that emulates the human mind there will be a real challenge to the player, other than that it will only be cheating to give us some chalange.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

In every game I've played in my life AI has always cheated, it's nothing new, since the 90s the graphics have evolved 1000% but the AI in games remains very basic, the day you invent a generic AI that emulates the human mind there will be a real challenge to the player, other than that it will only be cheating to give us some chalange.

There's no challenge from it at all though, it's just endless loop that annoys players unit they just stop playing or get out the executioner axe and quickly close out the game with it, as the AI is actually quit helpless to actually defeat you in combat. Because there are no tools for the player to use to circumvent the endless loop (besides the axe) it is annoying and not interesting or challenging.
We cannot order vassals to attack the fiefs we want,
we cannot order all prisoners held (with compensation from out own purse)
we cannot order or create specific patrols
we cannot directly and reliably prevent war declaration or peace declarations and strategically focus down a faction
we cannot withhold a fief because there is no vassal (yet) that matches the culture
we cannot order a vassal to go improve it's fief security/power before it resumes hostilities
we cannot (currently) raise up new clans or other substitutes, despite massive funds and man power available
Whats more, defeated factions (no fiefs) DO NOT go away in a timely manner! They DID in warband! It was much better then having a swarm of pest as your reward for actually defeating a faction.

In every game I've played in my life AI has always cheated

I don't know, but when I play AOE 4 against the AI they're always actually chopping wood and building stuff, they might cheat, but I can't SEE THEM CHEATING, in every way I can interact with them it makes sense! I can kill thier villagers and stop them from getting recourses, I can destroy a building and they can't use. SO if Bannerlord AI needs some cheat, some might be okay but not blatantly and in such a amount that they do not perform the same daily activities as the player, that's fake and annoying!

 

[Ser Jon]

Stellaris and CK2 AI isn't so buffed it feels like a cheat. It's definitely doable, it just comes down to if TW can do it or not.

 

[Aurex]

It's a back and forth with TW. They create a problem, "solve" it the simplest way they can, which creates another problem and so on and so forth. Perhaps a more robust AI could solve it, but I don't think TW knows how to make the AI any better or if their current engines will allow this. The best they'll probably come up with eventually is player control.

I was going to write something very similar, you beat me to it. They probably lack both direction, organization *and* skill. No offense for Taleworlds, I'm not saying they're horrible people. They're just below-average developers.

 

[Dreed89]

I was going to write something very similar, you beat me to it. They probably lack both direction, organization *and* skill. No offense for Taleworlds, I'm not saying they're horrible people. They're just below-average developers.

This is the real summary of the situation.

All the changes/updates/fixes to the game feel "cheap".

They are all workarounds that create new problems.

 

[Apocal]

TW attempted to fix a problem (snowballing) by using the simplest measures they could. This way they created this new problem. Had they instead opted to use more involved solutions (like altering AI behaviors and curbing player's ability to push the advantage on their own) they would not have had this new issue on their hands. Though who knows what other issue would arise out of that...

None of the snowballing fixes affect the player much. They were all AI-orientated. Almost nothing stops a player from plowing through a dozen settlements in less than 30 days, except maybe influence running a bit low if they have to call upon too many non-clan parties.

Wish the player could have a way to get a high tier troops fast at higher levels. I mean, if you lose a battle - you will lose the whole party. And then you will have to run around, hiring recruits and level them up again instead of helping ur AI fellas in war.

That's why they re-did the notable replenishment system. You can get high tier troops straight off the bat if your relations are good. It also means AI armies have an easier time stocking up on high-tier troops, which is what is contributing to this thread.

Stellaris and CK2 AI isn't so buffed it feels like a cheat. It's definitely doable, it just comes down to if TW can do it or not.

100K men moving through a province that doesn't even support 12K normally or some literal random desert bandit instantly raising an army of 250K because too many of my cousins like to party definitely feel like cheating to me.

 

[Lesbosisles]

That's why they re-did the notable replenishment system. You can get high tier troops straight off the bat if your relations are good. It also means AI armies have an easier time stocking up on high-tier troops, which is what is contributing to this thread.

Yep, and that one relationship condition ruins the whole idea. It means that I have to be an errand boy most of the times to raise relaionship with the notables, so they can give me the troops. And there's also a big chance that a random AI-driven lord just come and take all the recruits to himself, leaving you with 1 recruit from the village where everyone hates you.

 

[Danny5]

There was a lord of the rings mod for warband, the third age, where whenever an a.i. army or player would be defeated, it would weaken the overall faction slowly. This feels more satisfied when defeating armies, but also challenging for everyone, if you lose a lot of battles, it'll cost you.

 

[Apocal]

Yep, and that one relationship condition ruins the whole idea. It means that I have to be an errand boy most of the times to raise relaionship with the notables, so they can give me the troops. And there's also a big chance that a random AI-driven lord just come and take all the recruits to himself, leaving you with 1 recruit from the village where everyone hates you.

Being an errand boy is no longer required. You can max out slots in a town (any town) simply by leaving a companion there. Nobles generally can't reach the two deepest slots unless they own the settlement in question, and not always then, so by having 40 relations or more, you can pretty reliably get the highest tier troops that particular notable offers.

The emissary system is one of the bigger game-changing things they've introduced and I'm really surprised (in a pleasant way) that they haven't nerfed it into the ground because it takes one of the worst grinds -- running quests in the early game -- and effectively makes it optional. Or you can combine the two and practically maintain over a hundred near-untouchable recruits, available most of the time by throwing emissaries and running quests.