Something out of nothing - philosophical topic.

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mom

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Well this has been bothering me for a while,

How is it possible that something was created out of nothing and that from non-existence, existence was created? The prevailing scientific theory for the start of the universe is the Big Bang. But, how have the things that caused it come to be in the first place? I hear some people saying that there was never nothing, that there has always been some form of energy, but I want to know how has that energy come to be? Theistic belief is that God created the universe, but if so, who created God and who created that guy who created God? They usually say that God is alpha and omega, the beginning and the end and that there is an endless cycle of life and death so there was never nothingness, but how did that cycle come to existence? Are we even capable of comprehending that level of thought, or is the solution hidden somewhere?

What are your opinions on this?
 
It is a theological question, as it cannot be answered by science, which is based on empiricism.
Theoretically, in the future, we could build up models of what has happened through scientific methods, but technically it's impossible to observe and recreate the creation of something out of nothing.
It's, of course, something people have been asking themselves since we first established societies, and probably even before that.

Philosophy generally doesn't concern itself with topics that already are sciences in and of themselves (for example, math hasn't been a part of philosophy for thousands of years), but there are some people who have expressed their theological beliefs. For example Descartes who tried to prove the existence of God through logic, which is called the ontological argument.

Personally, I don't think we have the capacity to fully comprehend these things. Even if some genious scientist dude did, odds are you as an individual wouldn't. Which means you can't really take what he says for granted. Well, if you are able of any form of critical thinking, anyway.
 
I hear some people saying that there was never nothing, that there has always been some form of energy, but I want to know how has that energy come to be?
Their point is that there is no starting point, so your question is moot. There always has been something. Just consider circles and cycles as an example for a concept without end or beginning.
 
momcilo94 said:
The prevailing scientific theory for the start of the universe is the Big Bang. But, how have the things that caused it come to be in the first place?
That's not entirely correct. Big Bang theory is about the first moments of our universe, based on empirical observation. It doesn't state that there was nothing before it. For now, we cannot know what was before Big Bang, and while it's fun to speculate, it's also completely pointless.
 
Duh said:
I hear some people saying that there was never nothing, that there has always been some form of energy, but I want to know how has that energy come to be?
Their point is that there is no starting point, so your question is moot. There always has been something. Just consider circles and cycles as an example for a concept without end or beginning.

Yea but even for a cycle to exist it has to have a beginning of some kind.

Jhessail said:
momcilo94 said:
The prevailing scientific theory for the start of the universe is the Big Bang. But, how have the things that caused it come to be in the first place?
That's not entirely correct. Big Bang theory is about the first moments of our universe, based on empirical observation. It doesn't state that there was nothing before it. For now, we cannot know what was before Big Bang, and while it's fun to speculate, it's also completely pointless.

Didn't say it states nothing was there before it, just saying for it to have happened something had to initiate it, how did that something come from nothing? But ye I agree, it's all speculations, sometimes just guessing and theorizing can give us a view of something that might be true.

Untitled. said:
Personally, I don't think we have the capacity to fully comprehend these things.

Yep, it's a big possibility we simply aren't capable of comprehending those things but there is also the possibility of an answer waiting to be revealed.
 
momcilo94 said:
Yea but even for a cycle to exist it has to have a beginning of some kind.
Not if what is repeated has always existed. But picking out and discussing an example for a concept, while ignoring the main point, isn't really sensible for the discussion. To get back to the core - There is no inherent need for creation outside of the human mind.
 
I think the flexibility of language gives us the misimpression that certain invalid concepts are valid. We think of "nothing" as being a thing, an option which could've been, then wonder why something exists rather than "nothing". But I don't think that idea really makes sense. I don't think there ever could be "nothing". So there has to be something. It's the only option.

That something was probably proto-Turks.
 
Well, you could argue that our logic system is fallible, just like our senses. It's a bit of a weird argument though, since we can't prove it by any means whatsoever, be it rational or empirical.
 
I'm not really saying there's some core flaw in our ability to reason. I just think language treats "nothing" like any other noun when really its meaning is kind of the opposite of a noun. This allows us to create nonsensical sentences that treat "nothing" as if it's a thing.
 
So, either:

- There has always been something, and nothing never was.

or

- Something came from nothing.

Both points sound equally impossible. If you ask me it's a miracle we even exist.
 
:lol:

If you ask me, you need to spend some more time contemplating this issue.

For one, why is it inherently impossible for either of those two cases to be true?
 
momcilo94 said:
So, either:

- There has always been something, and nothing never was.

or

- Something came from nothing.

Both points sound equally impossible. If you ask me it's a miracle we even exist.

As Duh said it is indeed a theological question. It would be impossible, with the current framework of physics and even logic itself as we have it, to answer it in a scientifically relevant manner. In regards to your first bit as well, it's not a coincidence that human incomprehensibility is a major factor in many world religions.

Úlfheðinn said:
:lol:

If you ask me, you need to spend some more time contemplating this issue.

For one, why is it inherently impossible for either of those two cases to be true?

I think he means logically speaking.
 
Úlfheðinn said:
:lol:

If you ask me, you need to spend some more time contemplating this issue.

For one, why is it inherently impossible for either of those two cases to be true?

Not saying it's inherently impossible, I'm just saying I myself can't comprehend why it is possible. If you know why, lemme know plz  :smile:
 
Untitled. said:
It is a theological question, as it cannot be answered by science, which is based on empiricism.
Theoretically, in the future, we could build up models of what has happened through scientific methods, but technically it's impossible to observe and recreate the creation of something out of nothing.

Even if it cannot be answered by science you don't need to turn to a theological answer. You can choose to believe a scientist's made up stuff or theologian's made up stuff but it's all bull**** anyway.

Putting the stamp of science on it doesn't make dreamed up bull**** unquestionable, no matter what that Degrasse Tyson nut keeps preaching.
 
If someone says something bad about a group of people based on one/several individual(s) it's just generalization, but if you say something nice about the group based on one or more individual(s), then it isn't considered generalization.

Why?
 
momcilo94 said:
Duh said:
I hear some people saying that there was never nothing, that there has always been some form of energy, but I want to know how has that energy come to be?
Their point is that there is no starting point, so your question is moot. There always has been something. Just consider circles and cycles as an example for a concept without end or beginning.

Yea but even for a cycle to exist it has to have a beginning of some kind.

From your experiences, have you ever seen something come from nothing? If from your experiences the only "creation" is one type of matter transforming into other matter, on what grounds do you justify that all matter has to be created when the prevailing experience and evidence is that it cannot?
 
momcilo94 said:
How is it possible that something was created out of nothing and that from non-existence, existence was created? The prevailing scientific theory for the start of the universe is the Big Bang. But, how have the things that caused it come to be in the first place? I hear some people saying that there was never nothing, that there has always been some form of energy, but I want to know how has that energy come to be?
AFAIU, Big Bang theory doesn't imply something appeared out of nothing.
How can something have always been there? I guess it's more of a question of comprehension. When you exist in circumstances where everything has a beginning and an end it's hard to comprehend something existing indefinitely. But it's in no way impossible.
Magorian Aximand said:
This thread has caused me so much pain in so short a time...
Ironically, your "Look at me! I'm too smart for this thread. Bye." comment was the most cringeworthy.
 
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