Something is rotten in Calradia

[dogu91]

Best argument!

But if I don´t buy and play it, how can I know that Bannerlord is "bad"? Seems legit.

What do you want? If you didn't like it, too bad, it is a bad investment. Go write a bad review on steam so others do not buy it.
We are not here to share how sucky the game is.
It is one thing to contribute to community, another to be a toxic spoiled kid.

 

[StewVader]

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/almost-no-income-from-workshops-and-caravans.427992/post-9498968

And I think the hotfix they released today is the one that included it:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/beta-patch-notes-e1-4-3.427855/post-9504655

In that thread the Dev said workshop's average income per day is 100-150 and its not a game breaking issue. It looks like this hotfix will hopefully make caravans better, but we'll see.

So in their mind on average 3 caravans should make 900 denar per day, and 3 workshops should make 300 denar per day, for a total of 1,200 denar per day. This amount doesn't make sense to me at all. If you have 100 level 3 troops in your army that's 1,600 per day. Now lets say you have a castle with two villages that;s maybe an extra 500 per day, but a 100 man garrison of mostly level 3 troops will cost you 600-700 per day. So with 3 caravans, 3 workshops, a castle and two villages you will probably be negative with only level 3 troops. This is a rough estimate of the math, and it completely maps on to my most recent experience with the current Beta.

 

[Talbrys]

Assuming you are referring to: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...om-workshops-and-caravans.427992/post-9497895

Well yes, on average 100d/workshop. But if you actually are careful about what ones you run and where you can make 300-350. He also said in that post "We will try to make them a bit more profitable but not a gamebreaking issue right now." So it is on their list of things to work on but it's not high priority as it's not gamebreaking (which is correct).

 

[Androme1]

The disclaimer flat out said if you were looking for a finished game to wait for the final release.

You don't understand the criticism. The criticism is not: "The game is not good right now!". The criticism is: "There's no improvement in sight."
Nothing suggests the game will get any better thanks to TW's doing. The roadmap doesn't promise any of the absolutely necessary features that the game needs, and the game is fundamentally flawed from the bottom up in major ways.

 

[Talbrys]

You don't understand the criticism. The criticism is not: "The game is not good right now!". The criticism is: "There's no improvement in sight."
Nothing suggests the game will get any better thanks to TW's doing. The roadmap doesn't promise any of the absolutely necessary features that the game needs, and the game is fundamentally flawed from the bottom up in major ways.

I disagree, I definitely have seen improvement and now that the code refactor is done I expect we'll be seeing more regular improvement. I'm not sure what you mean by "absolutely necessary" as that whole sentence reeks of personal opinion.

 

[StewVader]

Assuming you are referring to: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...om-workshops-and-caravans.427992/post-9497895

Well yes, on average 100d/workshop. But if you actually are careful about what ones you run and where you can make 300-350. He also said in that post "We will try to make them a bit more profitable but not a gamebreaking issue right now." So it is on their list of things to work on but it's not high priority as it's not gamebreaking (which is correct).

I guess we would have to really nail down what he means. Because what he doesn't mean, is simply picking a Town with villages that support a specific workshop. For example, Zeonica has grain for days, so I built a brewery there, hardly gets over 100 per day. I had a smithy in Eprioceta (spelling?), which actually has two iron mines close by, never made 100 per day. So unless the player goes out of his way to artificially effect markets (by buy and changing workshops around Calradia) there's doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to their game based economy.

They honestly should have a consultant come in and design their Bannerlord's world economy. They don't seem to know what they are doing with it, in my opinion.

 

[Talbrys]

Yes but the hotfix change will affect how everyone buys and sells now, which will effect the distribution of items spread around by the caravans.

 

[Muad'dib]

Yes but the hotfix change will affect how everyone buys and sells now, which will effect the distribution of items spread around by the caravans.

Yes they said it 10 times already in the past, by for now i see zero progress and things go only worse and worse.

 

[MostBlunted]

It is one thing to contribute to community, another to be a toxic spoiled kid.

This kid is 11 years older than you if 91 was the year you was born.

But I see you have a lot of valid argmuents.

You don't understand the criticism. The criticism is not: "The game is not good right now!". The criticism is: "There's no improvement in sight."
Nothing suggests the game will get any better thanks to TW's doing. The roadmap doesn't promise any of the absolutely necessary features that the game needs, and the game is fundamentally flawed from the bottom up in major ways.

Exactly!

But their "arguments" are still the same:

Dont buy because EA
Dont be negative
Personal insults
Mods will/have fixed it

And whatever, I´ve heard them all.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

This kid is 11 years older than you if 91 was the year you was born.

But I see you have a lot of valid argmuents.



Exactly!

But their "arguments" are still the same:

Dont buy because EA
Dont be negative
Personal insults
Mods will/have fixed it

And whatever, I´ve heard them all.

Get a life dude. Its sorry to see a person spend too much time/mental energy on this.

 

[RoboSenshi]

Jesus christ. I have been away from the forums for ages, but I can't believe how spoiled people are. There is so much negative feedback. Do not buy, do not play if you don't like it.

What is with the whole negativity? If you have something to contribute, go ahead and suggest. Why try to break the dev's morale? What is the point of this toxicity?

Expressing disappointment doesn't mean toxicity.

 

[Timmortal]

Expressing disappointment doesn't mean toxicity.

Repatedly doing so with bad faith arguements and lies, saying the same things again and again and abusing people making counter points by calling them fanboys (and worse) to invalidate their opionions is toxic behavior.

 

[Androme1]

I disagree, I definitely have seen improvement and now that the code refactor is done I expect we'll be seeing more regular improvement. I'm not sure what you mean by "absolutely necessary" as that whole sentence reeks of personal opinion.

Right, what improvement have you seen? Better performance and less crashes? Congratulations, you're now able to play a shallow game with constant war, unbalanced factions, unbalanced economy, broken sieges, completely missing AI tactics, personality and dialogue.

Of course you wouldn't understand what I mean by "absolutely necessary", you have low standards. In your (low standard) eyes, the game is "feature complete". Meanwhile, for those of us who expect much more from a sequel to Warband that is 10 years in the making, we expect not only improvement over features that already existed in Warband, we also expect new features that take the game to the next level.

Unfortunately, the game is so bad that it is MISSING content/features that were in Warband 10 years ago. And the reason why I write that the game has no good future, is because in the roadmap, they're not even TRYING to give off the impression that they might be adding these missing things eventually, they only talk about "rare crash #9281"

 

[RoboSenshi]

Repatedly doing so with bad faith arguements and lies, saying the same things again and again and abusing people making counter points by calling them fanboys (and worse) in invalidate their opionions are toxic behavior.

Well when you put it like that.

 

[Bummerlord]

I haven't played single player in over two months. I don't have much to add to the discussion other than I personally find the game much more enjoyable than at launch. I'm not entirely sure what is meant when people say "Bannerlord lacks X feature of Warband" because the game definitely feels like a big and beautiful Warband mod at the moment. Maybe you expected more of Bannerlord and that's fine, but if you enjoyed Warband for so long, I have trouble imagining why you wouldn't enjoy Bannerlord in its current state. I mean... constant wars and unbalanced factions? That sounds like Warband alright. I still remember how the Nords were almost constantly wiped out in the early months of the game.

And don't get me started on the broken sieges and the missing AI tactics. Sieges in warband amounted to turning the handle of a meat grinder. Bannerlord sure has some issues but I don't think it's anywhere near the caricatures some are making it out to be.

 

[Androme1]

I haven't played single player in over two months. I don't have much to add to the discussion other than I personally find the game much more enjoyable than at launch. I'm not entirely sure what is meant when people say "Bannerlord lacks X feature of Warband" because the game definitely feels like a big and beautiful Warband mod at the moment. Maybe you expected more of Bannerlord and that's fine, but if you enjoyed Warband for so long, I have trouble imagining why you wouldn't enjoy Bannerlord in its current state. I mean... constant wars and unbalanced factions? That sounds like Warband alright. I still remember how the Nords were almost constantly wiped out in the early months of the game.

And don't get me started on the broken sieges and the missing AI tactics. Sieges in warband amounted to turning the handle of a meat grinder. Bannerlord sure has some issues but I don't think it's anywhere near the caricatures some are making it out to be.

There's entire lists to be found everywhere with a long list of features that were present in Warband that is missing completely in Bannerlord. Ignorance of what is missing compared to Warband is not an argument/excuse.

 

[Bummerlord]

I'm sorry I haven't spent days on this forum like some other people. Maybe you would care about sharing the list with us unenlightened folks instead of going full-snark?

Oh lookie here. I found one such list here: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/something-is-rotten-in-calradia.428544/page-3

First item: feasts. A game-changer, ladies and gentlemen. Taleworld's actual priority. Feasts.

 

[Telyon]

I'll bite. Seems like you were trying to link to this. Feasts seem like a weird topic to be worked up over, but the existence of feasts in Warband indicated that Taleworlds kept Lord to Lord relations in consideration. Feasts existed as a vessel for the AI could regain relation with each other. Roll your eyes and be as pretentious as you want, but their departure from Bannerlord indicates that Taleworlds is cutting corners and no longer caring about this, ultimately reducing the depth and immersion. Indeed, with the ruler clans hoarding fiefs so much up until this patch and constantly acting against the majority, that there is nothing even resembling Lord to Lord relations present is obvious.

EDIT: That you've flippantly disregarded a well-constructed, comprehensive list of missing content that affects other players merely because one item seemed minor speaks volumes about your interest to even engage in a genuine discussion.

 

[Bummerlord]

I'll bite. Seems like you were trying to link to this. Feasts seem like a weird topic to be worked up over, but the existence of feasts in Warband indicated that Taleworlds kept Lord to Lord relations in consideration. Feasts existed as a vessel for the AI could regain relation with each other. Roll your eyes and be as pretentious as you want, but their departure from Bannerlord indicates that Taleworlds is cutting corners and no longer caring about this, ultimately reducing the depth and immersion. Indeed, with the ruler clans hoarding fiefs so much up until this patch and constantly acting against the majority, that there is nothing even resembling Lord to Lord relations present is obvious.

EDIT: That you've flippantly disregarded a well-constructed, comprehensive list of missing content that affects other players merely because one item seemed minor speaks volumes about your interest to even engage in a genuine discussion.

Thanks for correcting the link.
I agree with the premise of your post, but fundamentally disagree on the conclusion. The absence of feasts doesn't mean that TW is cutting corners and no longer caring, but that they might be looking at other ways of accomplishing the same goals. Feasts are great for RP purposes but amounted in gameplay mechanic to a relationship farm, which might not be their aim.

In regards to your edit: the point is that they ARE minor items. Don't get me wrong: I'd be happy to see all of them implemented but I think people wrongly impugn nefarious motives on TW on the basis of their absence, which very well might be temporary anyway. I'm not a game developper so I don't feel entitled to decide what should be the priority. It rubs me the wrong way when people act like the whole game is ruined and that TW just doesn't care, especially when it's being compared to Warband, which was a great game despite and sometimes because of its flaws. Childishly implying you wouldn't have paid 45 bucks is what to me doesn't seem very conductive to a genuine discussion.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Thanks for correcting the link.
I agree with the premise of your post, but fundamentally disagree on the conclusion. The absence of feasts doesn't mean that TW is cutting corners and no longer caring, but that they might be looking at other ways of accomplishing the same goals. Feasts are great for RP purposes but amounted in gameplay mechanic to a relationship farm, which might not be their aim.

In regards to your edit: the point is that they ARE minor items. Don't get me wrong: I'd be happy to see all of them implemented but I think people wrongly impugn nefarious motives on TW on the basis of their absence, which very well might be temporary anyway. I'm not a game developper so I don't feel entitled to decide what should be the priority. It rubs me the wrong way when people act like the whole game is ruined and that TW just doesn't care, especially when it's being compared to Warband, which was a great game despite and sometimes because of its flaws. Childishly implying you wouldn't have paid 45 bucks is what to me doesn't seem very conductive to a genuine discussion.

Why are you both assuming feasts wont be in game? AFAIK they are just working on the whole relationship politics thing and once we get that overhaul we will get feasts. Guys we still have lots of time for them to implement the features they want too. Please remember they released the game on their 10 year anniversary, its obvious they wanted to meet a deadline not a perfect state for EA. Count your blessings they gave us access this early so we can have an impact instead of waiting even longer.