Some suggestions

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Ilex

Creepy ass-spelunker
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I have played the game for few days and I've got few suggestions for the it. Feel free to comment. I am sorry if someone has come up with these ideas before, I have no intentions to steal anyone's ideas. (And sorry for the possible bad English.) So let’s get to the ideas.

Equipment:

Armors:
-Heavy armors should be more resistant to lightweight weapons
-Different types of attacks (piercing, cutting, crushing) should have different effect on different armor types (I don’t know if this one is already implented in the game)
-Heavy (coat of plates, platemail, black armour) and medium (chain) armors should restrict movement (also light armours could have some penalties to movement depending on the wight of the armour):
-reduced movement speed
-reduced turning angle of the torso while mounted (and slower turning speed)
-slower attacks and blocks
-greatly reduced ability to shoot a bow (and maybe thrown weapons, while crossbows should only suffer from increased reloading time)
-almost minimal jumping height
-increased mounting time
-increased weapon change time (which should be longer for non-armoured characters too)
-increased stamina drain (see stamina in “abilities”)

Horses:
-Horses shouln’t be able to jump all the time. Jumping should have “a cool down time”, so this would not happen.
-Player should have the ability to tell the horse so sprint (now horse does it automatically after running a few meters)

Shields:
-(Heavy) Shields should slow down attacks made by the wielder of the shield (May seem illogical but you might be surpried if you tried this one by yourself)
-Shields shouldn’t protect the whole front of the character (as it seems to me), but character could move the shield up and down with his/her mouse, while pressing down the block button.

Polearms:
-Spears should have a minium attack range (has been suggested before)
-By readying (attack button down ) a spear and holding it at a charging horse and the spear hitting the horse while readyed, one could do more damage. This would only work if the speed of the horse is high enough (charging). If the player would move and do this the damage delivered to the horse would be same as the damage of a normal attack.
-Jousing lance and great lance should have greatly reduced damage and speed while unmounted (worse than a cudgel)

Skills and abilities:

Skills:
-Hiding: Gives a percentage chance of not being noticed by other groups. This chance should be reduced by factors like the size of the group and the amount of mounted troops. Also a hiding group that isn’t moving (yes time should keep going while the player is stationar if the player so wishes) gets a big bonus to hiding percentage. This would make ambushes possible (and therefor get tactical advantage).
-Smithing: Ability to make own weapons and armor. Depending on how many points one has in smithing one could change normal stats of the weapon (sharper edges -> more damage, lighter -> faster (less damage))
-Hunting: Hunting wild animals. Gains bonus from tracking. Possible gains: furs (which could be used as ingredients in smithing, meat (which would turn into eatable meat after camping.)

Abilities:
-Stamina (stat actually, like health): Stamina would be increase with strength and athletics. Stamina is used in jumps and sprinting. If stamina runs out character cannot sprint nor jump. Getting hit by a blunt weapon could decrease stamina. Also blocking attacks (especially made by heavy wapons) could drain stamina. There should be a meter for stamina so player could see if she/he is exhausted or not.
-Sprinting: Character gains 2-4x speed.
-Camping: Just like sleeping in a tavern but no cost and the healing rate is reduced (still higher than while active). Drawbacks would be possible attacking enemies.
-Shield bash: Alternative attack, minimal damage, but a “inbalancing -ability”. The result of this attack would be determined by the strenght of the combatants. The attack would have to be timed precisely to be hit just before the enemy attack to smash his weapon giving a chance for a hit. Drawbacks: Failed bash would make the attacker unable to block for a certain time. (Might be hard to make it work properly)
- Ability to wield 2 weapons. The attack speed would increase by 50-100%. But the damage of the offhand would be lower. Offhand weapon should be small (5-12 strenght) or medium sized (+12 strenght). Only one of the weapons could be used while mounted. (This would require an off-hand weapon slott).

Miscallenous:
-Roads on the map, where movement rate would be higher, but also there would be a lot of ambushing bandits waiting
-Troops on foot should have smaller penalty to movement than mounted troops while in forest (if this isn’t so now)
-More penalties to losing a battle completely: Instead of only losing your troops and a sum of money you would lose 95-100% of your belongings and possibly die (has been suggested a few times before)

edit: added a small detail
 
I love these suggestions!

There's nothing i would love to se more than more realistic battles on m&b
and i think these suggestions are almost perfect to make it so.

These suggestions really make sense and would be great to be added on future releases. :wink:
 
Armors already reduce your movement speed. Try it.

The horse goes at precisely the speed the player wants it to go :razz:

Shields slow down your movement, if they are indeed heavy. Try it.

Erm... you can already couch your polearm and do a charging attack.

Other suggestions are fine by me :smile:
 
Thanks for the replys.

Armors already reduce your movement speed. Try it.

Yes after trying i found out that this is true. Thanks for the correction.

The horse goes at precisely the speed the player wants it to go Razz

True also. Letting off the "forward button" will keep the speed as it is. I don't know how I hadn't realised that untill now. But again thanks for the correction.

Shields slow down your movement, if they are indeed heavy. Try it.

I tried this one with a steel shield. I could not see the difference. But if there is (propably is) a speed difference it should also apply to attack speed.

Erm... you can already couch your polearm and do a charging attack.

I see I didn't explain this clearly enough. So i shall do it now: When I wrote this I was thinking about an unmounted warrior readying his/her spear for a charging horseman, so on impact the spear would not budge and therefor make more damage.

Here is a link about what meant: http://www.bracewel.demon.co.uk/monties/charge1.htm
... and it seems it has already been brough (I think) up here by Elrathh:
http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1125

edit: 1. removed a lonely "
" 2. fixed a typo 3. added original a link
 
ah yes, now i see what you mean. Well... it makes perfectly sense... it would be great to see that happen... so that being mounted isn't always "the best thing" :razz:
 
About the shields, don't wanna make a new topic for a such small thing as this.

Archer Protection Shields

Not sure, have anyone ever seen these type of shields in a movie/other game. Basically, you got 1-2 strong shield carriers who carry a large, heavy shield made from wood or other light materia, it could be a little bit curve, so it would protect morel. The purpose for this kind of shield would be protecting archers and other long-range units, archers would stay behind the shield and shoot over it or move a little bit and shoot on the side of it and then return behind it to take cover. This would maybe be very hard to script, and i suggest that we let the devs concentrate to the real game, and let some fan do a mod when the dev-pack is released.
 
Archer Protection Shields

Not sure, have anyone ever seen these type of shields in a movie/other game. Basically, you got 1-2 strong shield carriers who carry a large, heavy shield made from wood or other light materia, it could be a little bit curve, so it would protect morel. The purpose for this kind of shield would be protecting archers and other long-range units, archers would stay behind the shield and shoot over it or move a little bit and shoot on the side of it and then return behind it to take cover. This would maybe be very hard to script, and i suggest that we let the devs concentrate to the real game, and let some fan do a mod when the dev-pack is released.

Nice idea. This could be hard to do with the AI MB has. If I get your idea right I think this was done in Stronghold. Here is a picture of those shields:
http://www.igrograd.com.ua/images/stronghold/Strong02.jpg
You can find them in the lower left corner.

An idea I forgot to put in my original message: The "speed of time" should be adjustable while travelling. This has bugged me "a bit" when I have chased down unit 0.1 faster (edit: of course i meant slower) than I am.

Another idea I forgot: The player should be able to decrease movement speed. This one comes handy when escorting caravans.

edit: 1. grammar again... 2. new suggestion 3. new suggestion
 
good ideas. a majority of it has been suggested before, espeically the one about setting your spear to counter a charge, killing the horse and piling the rider to the ground. im especially in support of making heavy armor negatively affect the user more, by making encumbrance have more penaltys, on things such as movement speed, attack speed, attack recovery, balance, etc.
stamina is somthing else i like, giving foot soldiers the ability to sprint short distances, and to do special moves and combos that would take stamina to use. also, the ability to knock people down when hit by a special or heavy attack by speceific weapons.
raods and having terrain affect movement rates has also been suggested and is a good idea
 
also, the ability to knock people down when hit by a special or heavy attack by speceific weapons.

Agreed. A mounted warrior at full speed hitting you with a great lance/maul should take you off your mount or if not mounted you should fall to ground even if you had a shield protecting you from damage.

And even while not mounted a maul using strong warrior should be able to inbalance an enemy (bandit, peasant) without having to kill him. Of course the enemy would try to rise from the ground but you could always end his attentions with a swing of your weapon.
 
Skree said:
Armors already reduce your movement speed. Try it.

The horse goes at precisely the speed the player wants it to go :razz:

Shields slow down your movement, if they are indeed heavy. Try it.

Erm... you can already couch your polearm and do a charging attack.

Other suggestions are fine by me :smile:
Hmm.. If they do it's so minimal that you cant even see the chance. As Ilex said, moving penalties should be dramatic.. not something you can't even notice.
And something that i noticed is that moving backwards speed should be slowed down, alot. It's just so stupid that your enemy is running backwards fast as you run forward and blocking all your attacks.
 
Qla said:
Skree said:
Armors already reduce your movement speed. Try it.

The horse goes at precisely the speed the player wants it to go :razz:

Shields slow down your movement, if they are indeed heavy. Try it.

Erm... you can already couch your polearm and do a charging attack.

Other suggestions are fine by me :smile:
Hmm.. If they do it's so minimal that you cant even see the chance. As Ilex said, moving penalties should be dramatic.. not something you can't even notice.
And something that i noticed is that moving backwards speed should be slowed down, alot. It's just so stupid that your enemy is running backwards fast as you run forward and blocking all your attacks.

You can, you can. And it IS dramatic.

Without armor you can run away from foot troops... with armor on you can't run away. To make a test... enter in a closed place, put off all your equipment, and run from one wall of the room to the other...

Then put on battle equipment and see the difference. It is *extreme*
 
It is *extreme*

Not as extreme as it should be (IMO). One can't run while in plate armor and a normal human can easily walk (no running needed) 2-3x faster than he/she could do while wearing armor... and then talking about running: it is another story.
 
Not as extreme as it should be (IMO). One can't run while in plate armor and a normal human can easily walk (no running needed) 2-3x faster than he/she could do while wearing armor... and then talking about running: it is another story.
I agree.
 
Well, game balance needs to factor in here to a large extent. I was reading an article about The Battle of Bouvines (King Phillip of France vs. Otto of Brunswick in 1214). There were about 1300 knights and a similiar number of mounted sargeants (think Swadian Man at Arms) on each side in addition to several thousand footmen. Now you'd think we'd be looking at some fairly massive casualties among our European nobility as a consequence of this clash. In fact:

On both sides, perhaps a few thousand footmen died, and several thousand more were wounded. But in the entire battle, only two knights were recorded as having been killed, one on each side!

It will perhaps be instructive to see precisely how these unfortunates lost their lives. When the allies first crashed against the royal line, one of the Flemish knights, Eustace de Malenghin, began to yell in the thick of battle "Death! Death to The French!" thus attracting perhaps too much attention to himself. He was surrounded by a group of French knights, but was only killed when one of his assailants managed to catch his head in an armlock and pull off his helm. A second knight then plunged a dagger into Eustace's breast through the exposed neck. Later in the battle, a French knight, Stephen de Longchamp, was killed by a daggerstroke that slipped through the eyeslit of his helm. This was the sum total of documented knightly casualties in an intense battle that lasted from noon to dusk, including one hour of pursuit.

And these guys weren't even in the super buff black armor of Mount & Blade. My point is that while realism is desireable it probably can't be an achievable goal. Not without a huge amount of work that might take away from the addictive simplicity of the game as we know it. Getting the feel right is one thing. Little tweaks that "feel right" are good. But it might not be practical to balance out the invulnerablity you'd really get from plate and heavy knightly armors with realistic weight and movement. Since we're probably not going to see "realistic" (and unplayable) plate armors I wonder if the current system isn't a good compromise?
 
I agree that realism is good but it can go too far. You mentioned " Getting the feel right is one thing" and heavy armors don't get me "the right feel". For some reason I missed the cumbersomeness of heavy armors that have been there in some games, it would not have to go to the extreme, as IRL some of the knights that wore the heaviest of plate mail had to be helped to the saddle.

edit:grammar
 
I think you all are really underestimating the mobility of plate armor. All the documentation of modern tests conclude that a high quality well articulated suit of armor offers almost complete range of motion and feels fairly light to wear. I don’t have any specifications at the moment, but I think a suit of plate weighs 40, maybe 50 pounds tops. In my experience as a U.S. Marine, I wear almost that much on my torso alone when I have a full combat load on (not including pack), and I am only mildly encumbered. So even assuming the armor weighs 50 pounds, distributed evenly over the entire body of a well-conditioned man (as a knight would be), it would hardly encumber him at all.
 
Total weight is more...they didn't exactly wear metal that directly touched their skin...they also had leather or really thick cloth underneath as padding and that alone added up nicely...

No, you'd have to be insanely strong to be able to endure wearing it AND move relatively fast for a longer period of time...and being covered in a good quality full plate armor will maybe only give minor mobility penalties, but the big drawback is that it'll reduce the speed of your actions for certain.

A knight's strength while in full armor only comes if he is on a mount. Being on foot and he wouldn't last even half the time...sure, he'd be mobile and unstoppable for maybe a few minutes but after that...he'll tire and slow down and he'll just end up as dead meat in a can...
 
From several sources I have received information that clash against my thoughts of plate armour. After googled a bit (trusting the sites) I found out that full suit of armour weights maxium of 60 (if one does not count the last of the suits that were made so thick that muscets would no penetrate it or just otherwise heavy full plate mails). Also the chainmail did weight more (if one believes the source). But I still think it was more cumbersome than a woolen shirt :wink:, so some (more) negative adjustments should be put for wearing heavier armour. But that's just me ^^.
Here's some links. definitely worth a look:
http://www.answers.com/topic/armour (look at the "plate armour" section below)
http://www.mackenziesmith.com/html/plate_armor.html
 
Thanks ilex, those links pretty much say it all. I was looking for something along those lines myself. And believe it or not plate is lighter than chain covering a comparable area. If anyone still thinks 60lbs. is all that heavy to move around in, either you never tried, or you need to go the gym. :wink:
 
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