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Some questions regarding economy, arrows, and overall gameplay

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Hello all, I've read through the FAQ and am very familiar with the game and the mod. I had a few questions after some headaches..

Playing the game on max difficulty everything. Currently have 9500 renown, 4 towns and a castle. My question first question is, how the hell do you ever get a positive balance in this mod? I have garrisons of 400 units in each town, 200 in the castle, which is very low for this mod. Ravernstern and Empire dominate the map, with me and the D'Shar holding the third section. The Ravernstern king has 2,000 units and a ****ing mercenary company with 6,000 units (lol?). This is obviously a balance issue, so I'm wondering how the player is ever supposed to achieve a positive balance week-to-week while taking on the entire map alone basically. Also wondering why the AI can have this many units and suffer to economic affects. All of my fiefs are upgraded to the max, and holding tournaments really doesn't seem to bring in much profit despite the 200,000 I threw away on it. 

I have Laria already, 12 companions, and high relations with the noldor. Also have 10 or so other lords at 100. I've had to proclaim myself king twice, and join other factions to keep hold of my towns. Any suggestions would be nice....

Also had a question about the arrows your units use. My elf is using a large bag of noldor arrows (34), but it seems that sometimes he shoots around 60 and sometimes he has 34. How do arrows work with AI units? Do they have an indefinite number, despite what the item/bag says?

Awesome, amazing, out of this world mod by the way. Thanks for reading.



AI lords are not bound by denars or wages. Their troop count is directly equal to how much wealth they have from fiefs.

However, they can capture prisoners and recruit a potentially infinite number of prisoners, as they don't have a unit cap like you. This is probably what happened to that King and the Merc group - they were left alone for so long and have amassed a huge amount of prisoners.


What do you mean by 'Balance'? Do you mean a balanced budget? That depends, really, and I can't offer much advice about late game economics as they tend to get all wonky at that point.
If you're talking about a balance of power, now, that I can help with.
Your mercenary problem is part of the bandit problem that currently plagues PoP. Honestly, with the quality of troops that most prisoners are, you should be able to wade through them if you don't mind spending a few hours swinging your sword. You have four towns, which... Okay, so you said taking on Pendor basically alone, right? I think I know what your problem is.
When you proclaim yourself king (or work for a claimant, which is similar), you can recruit lords to your faction by capturing them and then talking to them. If you offer them their freedom in exchange for swearing homage to you, they probably will do it if they like you. At this point, you can assign them fiefs, which should solve some of your economic problems. I generally stick with owning one or two towns and pimping them out. If you can't convince ANY of the other lords to help you, Sir Roland is a fantastic wingman if you don't mind losing him as a companion, so appoint him as a lord. With a few other lords on your side you should be a little better off, and they can take care of the towns, which supplies them with troops (Meaning they can parade around with free men from the fief).


Thanks for the responses. I didn't know you could do that, because I've tried before (I'm just not doing it right). With a few of the lords I know @100 level, I just ask them before fighting them (assuming my relations with them would degrade), and most of the time they say they're loyal to their king (that treats them like ****, none the less). So you fight them with more units than they have, capture them, go to your prisoners, and then talk to them? I always get the "I'll offer you ____ denars).

As for the late game economy, I noticed when I hit leadership 8 (CHA is only at 1:cool:, this helped IMMENSELY with the unit costs. A good strategy I found is to basically keep a minimal number of expensive units like Huscarls (any unit from 35 denars up really) and stack 200+ kiergards in your garrison, followed by 200 really cheap, but good units like Rav. men at arms, or empire heavy infantry, etc. The problem I was having was using a vanilla mindset really, that my 400 badasses can topple 3,000 opponents. But it's all for nothing if they outnumber you so badly it doesn't matter. It's a very taxing process right now replacing all those units with kiergards (they're only like 25-27 bucks right now, pretty golden) but it's worth it. As for the archers it seems like you just have to dish out for them.

Since the past few days I also tried someone elses strategy (I did this in vanilla but forgot about it, since it had been so long) of just gathering lots of units and taking as many castles as possible as Marshal. It works. Another strat I found that works is leading your men (or by yourself if you can) and taking out the special spawns continuously, so that your army mimics your AI opponents and gathers a massive army. It always seems like Empire and Ravernstern do that in my game (they each own 1/3 of the map, and the d shar own a little more than 1/3), but for whatever reason the D'Shar never do - so I tried it with them and it works well. The only thing that sucks is that you never get to chill and focus on yourself really. When it isn't war time taking on the specials is ideal, you lose a ****load of units but always come out with twice as many. And then you can keep doing that until they run out of units, or your lords are so battered you have to rest for a while.

Arrows, anyone? It seems random.


Ranged units definately run out of ammo. I've played for a week as purely archer army because they kick serious donkey balls, nearly unbeatable if you can pick your terrain for battles (high hills/mountains for mass heavy cav like some specials)

I'm playing on max vanilla battle size (150) and my archers usually run out of ammo during the 2nd enemy wave if I don't pace their volleys with Hold Fire command. Used Noldor Rangers first, 70-80ish strong and they simply melt anything that comes in view, but due to their bows and high archery, they fire really really quick and run out of ammo fast if you don't pay attention to them, wasting shots on some 3 archers on a hilltop while the next enemy wave is making towards you out of sight.
Then I tried Silvermist(?) Rangers, pretty much same deal, except a little worse bows and a little more expendable than Noldor units.
Usually I stick to Ravenstern Rangers as they are much much more expendable than either of those while still keeping very deadly arrow volley, plus if they get charged by cav, the 2 handers they got cleave them to bits rather fast.

For the mass armies issue, no idea. I had a Noldor lord spawn in one of my games and at some point I noticed him in the forest with 2k+ units and I was like woah what happened. Guess he was feeding on the bandit spawns, they seem quite fkin numerous and persistent. That was about the worst I've seen so far. I did experiment a bit of making few of my lords similar juggernauts, doing recruitment runs, training the units up with my squad of followers all pumped with Training skill and donated the units to my own lords. Pretty handy.

To recruit captured lords, I'm quite certain you need to have a fief you can donate away before the chat option to take their oath appears. Meaning you must have at least 2 fiefs on your own name.


Yeah I do all archer armies (usually just empty my garrison) for single battles only, usually against a spawn like mattenheim mercs or a strong enemy lord near my town. 2k was a lot for a noldor lord in your game? Literally every time I see Ithraldian or w/e his name is, he has at least 2,000 units. I think I figured out what the problem is in my particular game though - the Ravenstern king's only fief (outside of villages) is Evansolde Castle right inside Jatu territory. I'm guessing that's how his mercenary company now has 7,500 units. I'm stacking up an army of kiergard to take the castle when they declare war, and hopefully that ****s it somehow. Kind of lame you capture the king 50 times but the mercs wait around on the map, and because he has so many units he sits there indefinitely. I don't think I'll have to cheat or anything though, been easy to work around just avoiding him thus far and taking lots of land.

You are right with what you did - all those small bandit spawns add up to a lot of units. They have good prisoners oftentimes (i.e. rogue knights). For the longest time I didn't bother with that, but now I just auto-attack every smaller spawn I run across and stack up the units. I also usually get like a 2,000 denar item nearly every time too, although several of my companions have pretty high looting.

I had a couple lords in my early kingdoms (early as in, wasn't really prepared but thought I could do it anyway), and I had several towns, villages, and a castle. Weird that I haven't seen that option yet. Laria is definitely my favorite town thus far though. Awesome area, awesome castle, noldor, jatu spawns, right next to marleons, and they're both rich.


Grandmaster Knight
It depends on the secenario. If you eg. defend in a siege the defending archers have unlimited ammo. Means they get another full quiver 30 seconds or so after they spent the last shaft.

King Gregory having 2000 troopers? A mercenary company with 6k units? Sounds like they had quite some fun with some prisoner heavy armies. Look over their army composition and you´ll know whom they got them off.

If they´re all regular faction troopers instead of a mixed salad you clearly meddled witht he occult and got what you deserve.

Huge armies - lotsa  grind. Save a noticeable force, engage and grind them down. Try to even the odds somehow by taking out the two leaders in the first waves, leave the battle round and rejoin with better odds. Or lure them into a catastrophic siege defense though it will be most likely far easier to destroy Ravenstern and lure Gregory out to defeat him leaving the merc company out there to dismiss.

What does a Royal Mercenary do if the Kingdom he serves is destroyed? Is he dismissed and joins his original faction or does he stay a faction lord?


Sergeant at Arms
When you first strike out on your own and start your own kingdom, there will be no way to maintain a positive gold balance with the army you'll need to fend off the faction you rebelled against.  That's why most tips suggest you have at least 200,000 in your treasury before you start on this course.  Later on, you can get a positive gold balance by rewarding yourself fiefs that don't require garrisons like villiages.  Give the castle to a lord, let him stock the garrison, and keep the attached villages for yourself.  Another method is to stock your castles with cheap, low-quality troops as the AI looks at quantity, not quality when determining where to attack.  I will only have one or two places with high quality troops while everywhere else gets 700+ recruits which only cost 700 gold per week. 


I usually stock my castles and towns with mid-tier units such as Ravenstern Archers, Pendor Heavy Bowmen, Fierdsvain Light Infantry etc. They are a good compromise between cost and an effective defense in case the enemy actually decides to mount an assault. I use top-tier units for attacking fortresses, not for holding them. It is more fun to watch Barclay Sappers, Silvermists, Empire Armored Crossbowmen and Fierdsvain Huscarls slaughter the enemies on the walls than to see them sitting around in my towns getting paid for doing nothing.


Ahh okay. I've always been a defensive player really. I like seeing all my guys in a siege defense that will inevitably come, but at the cost of doing nothing for 500 days like you said. My towns are all stacked with 600 badasses. I tried your strat and filled rela keep with 700 units (12 denars or lower, usually 3$ avg.) and that has helped with the dollars mucho. They still try to siege it freqeuntly though (empire).
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