Some ideas to make the game more immersive and flavorful

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StewVader

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Economy/Trade Ideas:

We need so much more here than just buy low sell high. Its kinda ridiculous really how boring and tedious this is, when it could be so much better with just some flavor quest, or dynamic events, or game mechanics that support a merchant path to power.

Additionally, we need custom Artisan notables in each village based on what that village produces. For example, if a village produces iron ore, we should see a blacksmith like Artisan who produces ironworks goods or special iron that can be used for crafting special items. Apply this thinking to each village and each commodity and you get a lot of flavor for not much work.

Villagers need to BUY items from towns. I think this would help with workshop income being so insignificant and help create more demand for items that will make trade more interesting. For example, in times of war villagers will buy more food/tools/weapons from the towns. In winter they will buy more clothes/wood etc. Again, apply this kind of thinking overall and we get much more immersive.

Embargos should be a thing. Kingdoms should be able to close off trade (via caravans) with Kingdoms they don't like or are trying to provoke. Speaking of Trade, we just need way more trading going on period. Villages should be able to go to whatever town they want as long as trade relations are good. Currently, villagers just go to the nearest town of their affiliated kingdom.

Settlement Ideas:

Can Castles please DO SOMETHING? Honestly, Castles should have a unique troop party called Castle Militia, which is better than normal militia and has a NPC Castilian who can lead parties out to engage parties who enter the area's zone. Castles should also always have Noble troops available for recruitment, this just makes so much more sense than noble units coming from villages. Also, for F's sake, put a stash in castles, why this has to be asked for I have no idea.

Special Castle Events - like grand melees / Archery contest or competitions between kingdom for these events.

Improvements should require RESOURCES. If you want to improve your castle or town (I wish we could improve villages) you should have to accuire the natural resources to do so (hardwood, clay, ironore, oil, etc). TW can decide what amounts would be necessary.

Diplomacy:

I know people are really happy with the things said by Mexxico in the other post, but, I got a much bleaker and pessimistic perspective from reading his comments. I got the feeling that there is a desire to only do easy fixes rather than reworks for the glaring problems with diplomacy and kingdom relations. The diplomacy features just don't feel very good currently, none of it, why are there just arbitrary votes for war? There really needs to be claims or casus belli to explain why things are happening and to provide penalties to aggressors who don't have a cause for war. Also the new improvements just delay snowballing with bandaids rather than fixes the core problems with Sturgia (really weak) and the Khans (over powered). There are fundamental problems here, which have been discussed at length. There is talk that rebellions will fix this issues, but I just don't see how.

AI relations/ politics:

Currently even if you have 100 relation with the AI npc's it does nothing. We need dynamic options and text with each AI NPC based on our relationship with them and we need ways to SUBVERT relations between NPCS. There is no politics, its more like each kingdom is a hive mind. There should be small factions within each Kingdom that have common interest that create voting blocs for actions and policies.

There is so much more that could be implemented, basic things that I think many of us expected to be included from the beginning, but alas here we are, still clamoring for more interesting things to do in the game than just hire archers and faceroll bad AI.
 
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Itisausername

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You call the game tedious but all you're suggestions seem to make the game more tedious the reason that there is no casus belli is that why would there be oh i can't deckare war on these people why oh i need to wait for my claim so immersive i would rather the game be fun instead of immersive and the are smaller blocs in kingdoms its called clans and actually havin 100 relation does do something you can barter with them easier and recruit said clan easier for village notable and town notables its recruits and castles work better than i warband a castle isnt supposed to be you're source of income a castle is defined for being a stronghold where soldiers are placed for defensive positions and why would noble units spawn in castles so you can get them easier and rhe thread created by mexxico is not easy fixes its talking about things that actually matter in the game for trade the game is not an event based game and its not always buy low sell high as unless you know the layout of the map pretty well it is hard to get the cash and can constantly lead to deficit if the right decision is not made and no khans guard in batle if caught by sturgian cav or inf is easily killed the khuzait units are the problem not the units as you never mention NE WE getting destroyed early on because they have decent units the tribal warrior is the problem cav in auto calc is broken and if you dont see how rebellions will fix the problem then you are actually stupid newly conquered towns with less garrison will lower loyalty especially if its on a frontier a rebellion will be caused causing the kingdom to crush it leaving the other kingdom to rebuild the reason its a vote its because its not arbitary the ruler can override everything no matter how much you vote he can if there were casus bellis nothing would happen in the world depending on how long it takes and all kingdoms declare war for a reason the reason usually being more land and they believe they are the true rulers of calradia and no it is not EaSy FiXEs like you suggest its actually thought out unlike you're own statements a casus belli exists land bkth sturgian and khuzait units are powerful in actual battle but in those type of battles sturgia prevails unlike the khuzait whos only strengh is bonus strengh to cav in auto calc
 

Stromming

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You call the game tedious but all you're suggestions seem to make the game more tedious the reason that there is no casus belli is that why would there be oh i can't deckare war on these people why oh i need to wait for my claim so immersive i would rather the game be fun instead of immersive and the are smaller blocs in kingdoms its called clans and actually havin 100 relation does do something you can barter with them easier and recruit said clan easier for village notable and town notables its recruits and castles work better than i warband a castle isnt supposed to be you're source of income a castle is defined for being a stronghold where soldiers are placed for defensive positions and why would noble units spawn in castles so you can get them easier and rhe thread created by mexxico is not easy fixes its talking about things that actually matter in the game for trade the game is not an event based game and its not always buy low sell high as unless you know the layout of the map pretty well it is hard to get the cash and can constantly lead to deficit if the right decision is not made and no khans guard in batle if caught by sturgian cav or inf is easily killed the khuzait units are the problem not the units as you never mention NE WE getting destroyed early on because they have decent units the tribal warrior is the problem cav in auto calc is broken and if you dont see how rebellions will fix the problem then you are actually stupid newly conquered towns with less garrison will lower loyalty especially if its on a frontier a rebellion will be caused causing the kingdom to crush it leaving the other kingdom to rebuild the reason its a vote its because its not arbitary the ruler can override everything no matter how much you vote he can if there were casus bellis nothing would happen in the world depending on how long it takes and all kingdoms declare war for a reason the reason usually being more land and they believe they are the true rulers of calradia and no it is not EaSy FiXEs like you suggest its actually thought out unlike you're own statements a casus belli exists land bkth sturgian and khuzait units are powerful in actual battle but in those type of battles sturgia prevails unlike the khuzait whos only strengh is bonus strengh to cav in auto calc
have you heard of punctuation?
 

Itisausername

Master Knight
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have you heard of punctuation?
Yes i have probably just rambled to much though as the game still has enough problems but to me the points he made would make what he calls tedious and i just gave my 2 cents as of course its subjective
 

StewVader

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You call the game tedious but all you're suggestions seem to make the game more tedious the reason that there is no casus belli is that why would there be oh i can't deckare war on these people why oh i need to wait for my claim so immersive i would rather the game be fun instead of immersive and the are smaller blocs in kingdoms its called clans and actually havin 100 relation does do something you can barter with them easier and recruit said clan easier for village notable and town notables its recruits and castles work better than i warband a castle isnt supposed to be you're source of income a castle is defined for being a stronghold where soldiers are placed for defensive positions and why would noble units spawn in castles so you can get them easier and rhe thread created by mexxico is not easy fixes its talking about things that actually matter in the game for trade the game is not an event based game and its not always buy low sell high as unless you know the layout of the map pretty well it is hard to get the cash and can constantly lead to deficit if the right decision is not made and no khans guard in batle if caught by sturgian cav or inf is easily killed the khuzait units are the problem not the units as you never mention NE WE getting destroyed early on because they have decent units the tribal warrior is the problem cav in auto calc is broken and if you dont see how rebellions will fix the problem then you are actually stupid newly conquered towns with less garrison will lower loyalty especially if its on a frontier a rebellion will be caused causing the kingdom to crush it leaving the other kingdom to rebuild the reason its a vote its because its not arbitary the ruler can override everything no matter how much you vote he can if there were casus bellis nothing would happen in the world depending on how long it takes and all kingdoms declare war for a reason the reason usually being more land and they believe they are the true rulers of calradia and no it is not EaSy FiXEs like you suggest its actually thought out unlike you're own statements a casus belli exists land bkth sturgian and khuzait units are powerful in actual battle but in those type of battles sturgia prevails unlike the khuzait whos only strengh is bonus strengh to cav in auto calc
I said the system of buying low and selling high is tedious. Which it is. I'm asking for more immersion and flavor.
 

StewVader

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You call the game tedious but all you're suggestions seem to make the game more tedious the reason that there is no casus belli is that why would there be oh i can't deckare war on these people why oh i need to wait for my claim so immersive i would rather the game be fun instead of immersive and the are smaller blocs in kingdoms its called clans and actually havin 100 relation does do something you can barter with them easier and recruit said clan easier for village notable and town notables its recruits and castles work better than i warband a castle isnt supposed to be you're source of income a castle is defined for being a stronghold where soldiers are placed for defensive positions and why would noble units spawn in castles so you can get them easier and rhe thread created by mexxico is not easy fixes its talking about things that actually matter in the game for trade the game is not an event based game and its not always buy low sell high as unless you know the layout of the map pretty well it is hard to get the cash and can constantly lead to deficit if the right decision is not made and no khans guard in batle if caught by sturgian cav or inf is easily killed the khuzait units are the problem not the units as you never mention NE WE getting destroyed early on because they have decent units the tribal warrior is the problem cav in auto calc is broken and if you dont see how rebellions will fix the problem then you are actually stupid newly conquered towns with less garrison will lower loyalty especially if its on a frontier a rebellion will be caused causing the kingdom to crush it leaving the other kingdom to rebuild the reason its a vote its because its not arbitary the ruler can override everything no matter how much you vote he can if there were casus bellis nothing would happen in the world depending on how long it takes and all kingdoms declare war for a reason the reason usually being more land and they believe they are the true rulers of calradia and no it is not EaSy FiXEs like you suggest its actually thought out unlike you're own statements a casus belli exists land bkth sturgian and khuzait units are powerful in actual battle but in those type of battles sturgia prevails unlike the khuzait whos only strengh is bonus strengh to cav in auto calc
Its impossible to respond to you because your rant is intelligible.
 

Stromming

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WBWF&SNWVC
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Economy/Trade Ideas:
We need so much more here than just buy low sell high. Its kinda ridiculous really how boring and tedious this is, when it could be so much better with just some flavor quest, or dynamic events, or game mechanics that support a merchant path to power.
Would be nice

Additionally, we need custom Artisan notables in each village based on what that village produces. For example, if a village produces iron ore, we should see a blacksmith like Artisan who produces ironworks goods or special iron that can be used for crafting special items. Apply this thinking to each village and each commodity and you get a lot of flavor for not much work.
I really don't think this is as little work as you say, and to be honest I don't think it adds much to the game.

Villagers need to BUY items from towns. I think this would help with workshop income being so insignificant and help create more demand for items that will make trade more interesting. For example, in times of war villagers will buy more food/tools/weapons from the towns. In winter they will buy more clothes/wood etc. Again, apply this kind of thinking overall and we get much more immersive.
This would be good. Do they really only sell things?


Embargos should be a thing. Kingdoms should be able to close off trade (via caravans) with Kingdoms they don't like or are trying to provoke. Speaking of Trade, we just need way more trading going on period. Villages should be able to go to whatever town they want as long as trade relations are good. Currently, villagers just go to the nearest town of their affiliated kingdom.
I don't think the AI would be able to handle this, and players would be able to exploit it to weaken a faction before going to war with it. I also disagree with the idea of the villagers going to whatever city.

Settlement Ideas:
Can Castles please DO SOMETHING? Honestly, Castles should have a unique troop party called Castle Militia, which is better than normal militia and has a NPC Castilian who can lead parties out to engage parties who enter the area's zone. Castles should also always have Noble troops available for recruitment, this just makes so much more sense than noble units coming from villages. Also, for F's sake, put a stash in castles, why this has to be asked for I have no idea.
Noble troops should come from cities and castles, I agree. But how to make it work well with the game? Stash should definitely be in the castle!
No need for a unique troop in my opinion. All castles / towns should have the ability to send out patrols.

Special Castle Events - like grand melees / Archery contest or competitions between kingdom for these events.
So redundant with town tournaments.

Improvements should require RESOURCES. If you want to improve your castle or town (I wish we could improve villages) you should have to accuire the natural resources to do so (hardwood, clay, ironore, oil, etc). TW can decide what amounts would be necessary.
Sounds like this will just increase grind. It already takes a long time to improve stuff.

Diplomacy:
I know people are really happy with the things said by Mexxico in the other post, but, I got a much bleaker and pessimistic perspective from reading his comments. I got the feeling that there is a desire to only do easy fixes rather than reworks for the glaring problems with diplomacy and kingdom relations. The diplomacy features just don't feel very good currently, none of it, why are there just arbitrary votes for war? There really needs to be claims or casus belli to explain why things are happening and to provide penalties to aggressors who don't have a cause for war. Also the new improvements just delay snowballing with bandaids rather than fixes the core problems with Sturgia (really weak) and the Khans (over powered). There are fundamental problems here, which have been discussed at length. There is talk that rebellions will fix this issues, but I just don't see how.
I disagree with casus bellis. This is not Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis after all. And Casus bellis wasn't really a thing (IIRC) during the time period Bannerlord takes place (versus real life). There could be what existed in Warband "a village has petitioned their old king because the new treats them badly. Makes it easier for X faction to go to war with Y faction".
Mexxico also isn't obsessed with doing things the easy way, in that case you haven't read everything, or you misunderstood it. There are plenty of things he has said no to because it is easy "hard rules" and he wants to change it dynamically.

AI relations/ politics:
Currently even if you have 100 relation with the AI npc's it does nothing. We need dynamic options and text with each AI NPC based on our relationship with them and we need ways to SUBVERT relations between NPCS. There is no politics, its more like each kingdom is a hive mind. There should be small factions within each Kingdom that have common interest that create voting blocs for actions and policies.
This is probably just not implemented properly yet.
 

StewVader

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Would be nice


I really don't think this is as little work as you say, and to be honest I don't think it adds much to the game.


This would be good. Do they really only sell things?



I don't think the AI would be able to handle this, and players would be able to exploit it to weaken a faction before going to war with it. I also disagree with the idea of the villagers going to whatever city.


Noble troops should come from cities and castles, I agree. But how to make it work well with the game? Stash should definitely be in the castle!
No need for a unique troop in my opinion. All castles / towns should have the ability to send out patrols.


So redundant with town tournaments.


Sounds like this will just increase grind. It already takes a long time to improve stuff.


I disagree with casus bellis. This is not Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis after all. And Casus bellis wasn't really a thing (IIRC) during the time period Bannerlord takes place (versus real life). There could be what existed in Warband "a village has petitioned their old king because the new treats them badly. Makes it easier for X faction to go to war with Y faction".
Mexxico also isn't obsessed with doing things the easy way, in that case you haven't read everything, or you misunderstood it. There are plenty of things he has said no to because it is easy "hard rules" and he wants to change it dynamically.


This is probably just not implemented properly yet.
I think Artisans at villages would make villages more interesting. Basically, the artisans would consume items bought from towns and make rare/unique items for the player to consume. Yes villagers only sell items, most food to towns. We need items to give bonuses to villages (like tools to speed up hearth creation)

I think requiring resources for settlement upgrades would add more immersion and feels better than just dumping gold. Or perhaps, allow the resources to speed up construction of Castles? I think there is something in to be found in the middle here. I also don't think its a grind, its more of a money sink.

I think Tournaments should be expanded then. To allow for Kingdoms to compete in peace time, a non-war related thing to do. Joust, Melee, and Archery. I think it would be better than the general tournament.

Claims and casus bellis could be implemented, but not necessary for war. There could be just wars and unjust wars that affect loyalty of settlements afterwards. Its just for flavor, wars are so arbitrary and random, and its all there is to do in the game currently. Just thinking of ways to make it more immersive. Claims could also be used to get more votes from the AI for war, etc etc.
 
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Honved

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Medieval castles varied from culture to culture and even within them, ranging from little more than a pure fortification to a town in its own right, with surrounding fields tilled by peasants who often lived outside the walls, but could quickly flee inside if attacked. Some castles included an attached village, sometimes with its own smaller defensive wall. Having ALL castles as merely places to stash troops, with no significant economic purpose, no ability to interdict caravans or supply routes, and no other benefits really makes owning them pointless, other than the fact that ownership of a fairly distant village is tied to them.

I don't think we need "special artisans" in each town or castle, but a routine smith, a tailor, and a produce peddler would be very handy, ESPECIALLY if they actually produced a small amount of NEW goods over time, which would offset the gradual damage to items through war. Weapons, armor, and clothing could have a VERY small chance of degrading by one notch in each battle, so it would be necessary to either have them repaired by a competent artisan, or replaced. As it is, items that spawn as cracked or rusted serve no purpose beyond lower-value loot, once the player character can afford better, since you can't have them repaired, can't scrap them for materials to produce better, and they simply vanish at random from merchant inventories after you sell them. It's probably too late to implement something like this, but it would go a long way toward a REAL economy, to have artisans turn raw materials into finished goods to sell, which are then "used up" in war. A king shouldn't be quick to declare a war until most of the damage has been repaired from the last war, and the troops are properly equipped.
 

StewVader

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Medieval castles varied from culture to culture and even within them, ranging from little more than a pure fortification to a town in its own right, with surrounding fields tilled by peasants who often lived outside the walls, but could quickly flee inside if attacked. Some castles included an attached village, sometimes with its own smaller defensive wall. Having ALL castles as merely places to stash troops, with no significant economic purpose, no ability to interdict caravans or supply routes, and no other benefits really makes owning them pointless, other than the fact that ownership of a fairly distant village is tied to them.

I don't think we need "special artisans" in each town or castle, but a routine smith, a tailor, and a produce peddler would be very handy, ESPECIALLY if they actually produced a small amount of NEW goods over time, which would offset the gradual damage to items through war. Weapons, armor, and clothing could have a VERY small chance of degrading by one notch in each battle, so it would be necessary to either have them repaired by a competent artisan, or replaced. As it is, items that spawn as cracked or rusted serve no purpose beyond lower-value loot, once the player character can afford better, since you can't have them repaired, can't scrap them for materials to produce better, and they simply vanish at random from merchant inventories after you sell them. It's probably too late to implement something like this, but it would go a long way toward a REAL economy, to have artisans turn raw materials into finished goods to sell, which are then "used up" in war. A king shouldn't be quick to declare a war until most of the damage has been repaired from the last war, and the troops are properly equipped.
I agree. I only say "artisans" because that mechanic is already in the game. Each town already has an Artisan who consumes certain goods. But your point is well taken.
 

Dabos37

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Well, easy and fast changes are pretty welcome to make the game playable while bigger mechanics get developed in order to fix diplomacy and snowballing.

I have to say that I am a bit sad after reading that rebellions will take a lot of time and after not being able to find anything about TW improving diplomacy system with alliances, pacts, etc, but at least we have got something great from the mexxico’s changes. This man is a hero.
 

ElCrisp

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I would very much like castles to have some seperate function that distinquished them from towns, so they arent just the less interesting version of them. I must say I like the idea of them being able to generate partrols, (maybe with reduced wages) Just so they can represent an area of control which is after all the purpose of castle fortifications, a base of opperations is made possible by having them as a fall back point.
 

StewVader

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How are events flavor its a rng mechanic
Are you kidding? Events provide tons of flavor - think about Stellaris. In Bannerlord it could be "you've heard a rumor that LOCATION X, found a new Mine and has an abundance of ore available for trade"

or conversely: While at town, you are approached by a merchant who knows a town on hard times and is buying COMMODITY X for x2 price.

That is just thinking about it for 2 seconds. Its obvious on its face that trading/economic events would add flavor to the game. Not sure why this needs to be explained.
 

Magello

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There are a lot of really interesting and good ideas in here. Castles defiantly need to have a functionality such as patrols but they really need to have a way to generate coin. Typically they received tribute from perhaps the closest town based on how much traffic passed through their lands from taxes. This could be implemented to have them make money based on how many caravans enter a close city or pass by the castle.

For the embargo couldn't we implement a tariff on certain kingdoms or clans to say limit their influence or to provoke them?
 

Itisausername

Master Knight
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Are you kidding? Events provide tons of flavor - think about Stellaris. In Bannerlord it could be "you've heard a rumor that LOCATION X, found a new Mine and has an abundance of ore available for trade"

or conversely: While at town, you are approached by a merchant who knows a town on hard times and is buying COMMODITY X for x2 price.

That is just thinking about it for 2 seconds. Its obvious on its face that trading/economic events would add flavor to the game. Not sure why this needs to be explained.
Yes but stellaris actually has something eventful to happen and an entire game ruined because of an event is kinda ****
 

StewVader

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Yes but stellaris actually has something eventful to happen and an entire game ruined because of an event is kinda ****
Yeah...but no one is calling for an event that can ruin an entire game. Its just for immersion and flavor, so the player, can exist in the world and see the world occurring around him. Its sad that they want the single player to be the pathetic endless war game loop with nothing else. I don't know how anyone finds it enjoyable after even just a little time. Its all the same!!
 

Itisausername

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Yeah...but no one is calling for an event that can ruin an entire game. Its just for immersion and flavor, so the player, can exist in the world and see the world occurring around him. Its sad that they want the single player to be the pathetic endless war game loop with nothing else. I don't know how anyone finds it enjoyable after even just a little time. Its all the same!!
You're own example entailed events like this would happen and if a game has events it needs to have negative events games like eu4 or ck2 for a hard start if not everything goes perfectly with events you are dead and same with diplomacy with those games if a person who you need to have an alliance with isnt friendly you cannot play if you're own example was to take then you said an iron mine has a lot of production thos item due to low demand price has highered yiu would do the same thing just know more and if it would work like that lets say you invest you're entire money into the clay market but you get an event saying due to the high production and low demand for clay the price has fallen now you are there stuck with nothing